Stephen House to quit
Discussion
So let me see if I understand this, he's being forced out because he
- took overt intervention action against youth ASBO behaviour
- didn't let the armed teams sit around on their ar5es when there was nothing requiring their specialisms
- didn't personally respond immediately to a 999 saying the caller might have seen a car in a ditch somewhere between Edinburgh & Inverness?
OK, I'm stretching the points here, and I know that there's a huge amount of unresolved politics around the force mergers but do we want law & order in this country or not?
- took overt intervention action against youth ASBO behaviour
- didn't let the armed teams sit around on their ar5es when there was nothing requiring their specialisms
- didn't personally respond immediately to a 999 saying the caller might have seen a car in a ditch somewhere between Edinburgh & Inverness?
OK, I'm stretching the points here, and I know that there's a huge amount of unresolved politics around the force mergers but do we want law & order in this country or not?
Collectingbrass said:
So let me see if I understand this, he's being forced out because he
- took overt intervention action against youth ASBO behaviour
- didn't let the armed teams sit around on their ar5es when there was nothing requiring their specialisms
- didn't personally respond immediately to a 999 saying the caller might have seen a car in a ditch somewhere between Edinburgh & Inverness?
OK, I'm stretching the points here, and I know that there's a huge amount of unresolved politics around the force mergers but do we want law & order in this country or not?
Basically this, sadly.- took overt intervention action against youth ASBO behaviour
- didn't let the armed teams sit around on their ar5es when there was nothing requiring their specialisms
- didn't personally respond immediately to a 999 saying the caller might have seen a car in a ditch somewhere between Edinburgh & Inverness?
OK, I'm stretching the points here, and I know that there's a huge amount of unresolved politics around the force mergers but do we want law & order in this country or not?
I guess he's just grown tired of the press and political bulls
t.He had to manage enormous change, both in structure and funding. People don't like change so he was always up against it.
The complete misinterpretation and comical hysteria about "routine arming", and lack of perspective over that fatal RTC hardly help for a rational and objective view to make judgements by.
The complete misinterpretation and comical hysteria about "routine arming", and lack of perspective over that fatal RTC hardly help for a rational and objective view to make judgements by.
Elroy Blue said:
The Scottish press ran a front page headline about the 'horror' of an ARV Officer buying a sandwich while on duty. It's pathetic and cheap, but a certain section of society just lap it up.
I can remember the image. Was the gun on his hip or halfway down his thigh?If he was in a car getting his sandwiches in a supermarket how difficult would it have been to go to the boot of the vehicle and get the longer high visibility jacket on to cover the gun?
Look at the online, Social Media presence of Police Scotland. Would it have been that difficult for officers to be routinely armed on duty to educate and inform the public that occasionally seeing armed officers in situations where guns were not necessary was a consequence of making use of highly trained and experienced officers and a better use of public money than having them sat around waiting for something to happen that needed their guns and expertise?
Was the Scottish public consulted before or after?
You know and I know that some officers struggle to resist the temptation of giving detainees a bit of a hard time by their handling or restraint use.
You may know that the kind of officers that abuse their position and use restraint to punish people are different with a different psychological make up from those officers that are selected and trained for gun use, but I don't.
'A computer programmer pressed the wrong key and we lost all of the data on stop and search'.
If Police Scotland had a proper back up policy pressing the wrong key wouldn't be an issue would it?
Computers they're all a bit new fangled and people now don't have electronic files containing their music collections instead of CDs and LPs.
So for the lack of a proper back up policy I am supposed to respect the police brand and uniform and not consider for a minute that a police officer may be telling a bit of a porkie.
The attitude of the press means it's just not worth it? What's a proper IT back up policy worth?
If Police Scotland can't even do a back up of stop and search data how will they ever cope with Body Worn Video?
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 27th August 22:41
They did a page just for the hard of thinking: http://www.scotland.police.uk/about-us/police-scot...
Elroy Blue said:
I'm surprised he stayed this long. It's just not worth it these days.
He won't actually retire, he'll get a job in some QUANGO type organisation on £80K/yr on top of his pension so will end being much better off.
Was there something on BBC local TV News on Wednesday night about the death of Sheku Bayoh?
Have there been multiple scenarios given for that incident? How many of the hypothetical scenarios for that death could be ruled out by showing any CCTV footage of that incident?
The press have made the job impossible and unbearable? Was it the press suggesting multiple different scenarios for what happened before Sheku Bayoh died?
Have there been multiple scenarios given for that incident? How many of the hypothetical scenarios for that death could be ruled out by showing any CCTV footage of that incident?
The press have made the job impossible and unbearable? Was it the press suggesting multiple different scenarios for what happened before Sheku Bayoh died?
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 27th August 23:16
carinaman said:
'A computer programmer pressed the wrong key and we lost all of the data on stop and search'.
If Police Scotland had a proper back up policy pressing the wrong key wouldn't be an issue would it?
Computers they're all a bit new fangled and people now don't have electronic files containing their music collections instead of CDs and LPs.
So for the lack of a proper back up policy I am supposed to respect the police brand and uniform and not consider for a minute that a police officer may be telling a bit of a porkie.
The attitude of the press means it's just not worth it? What's a proper IT back up policy worth?
If Police Scotland can't even do a back up of stop and search data how will they ever cope with Body Worn Video?
It's ok though, he apologised. If Police Scotland had a proper back up policy pressing the wrong key wouldn't be an issue would it?
Computers they're all a bit new fangled and people now don't have electronic files containing their music collections instead of CDs and LPs.
So for the lack of a proper back up policy I am supposed to respect the police brand and uniform and not consider for a minute that a police officer may be telling a bit of a porkie.
The attitude of the press means it's just not worth it? What's a proper IT back up policy worth?
If Police Scotland can't even do a back up of stop and search data how will they ever cope with Body Worn Video?
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 27th August 22:41
"I don't see anything wrong with, if you make a mistake, acknowledging you made a mistake and apologising to the body you are accountable for that mistake. That is exactly what I did."
carinaman said:
Was there something on BBC local TV News on Wednesday night about the death of Sheku Bayoh?
Have there been multiple scenarios given for that incident? How many of the hypothetical scenarios for that death could be ruled out by showing any CCTV footage of that incident?
The press have made the job impossible and unbearable? Was it the press suggesting multiple different scenarios for what happened before Sheku Bayoh died?
that incident was reasonably local to me, after hearing some local gossip,it will be interesting to see the outcome. scary incident for all involved i would imagine ,with a terribly sad outcome.Have there been multiple scenarios given for that incident? How many of the hypothetical scenarios for that death could be ruled out by showing any CCTV footage of that incident?
The press have made the job impossible and unbearable? Was it the press suggesting multiple different scenarios for what happened before Sheku Bayoh died?
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 27th August 23:16
wc98 said:
That incident was reasonably local to me, after hearing some local gossip,it will be interesting to see the outcome. scary incident for all involved I would imagine ,with a terribly sad outcome.
House wasn't there and wasn't involved in the death.I'm uncomfortable about the officers involved discussing that incident behind closed doors with a police federation rep.
Part of my problem with that is that the police provide evidence for court trials, but all of the officers meeting behind closed doors after the event and discussing what happened with a federation official seems counter to my understanding or views on juries discussing cases and coming to verdicts.
I don't know how the spread of information about the Sheku Bayoh incident compares to jurors wrongly using the Internet to research the past of the accused and their alleged victims and then possibly discussing that with other jurors or using that information to try to influence fellow jurors.
If Sheku Bayoh had committed an offence or been a threat to individuals or the community he should have been dealt with in a court.
It may have been a very dangerous and volatile situation but when the police arrest groups of people for alleged crimes they don't allow them all to meet up in an office in a police station with their solicitor(s) to get their stories straight do they?
Those officers in the Sheku Bayoh incident being allowed to meet up in the same room afterwards seems as procedurally flaky as there not being back ups of the Stop & Search data in a fireproof cabinet on a separate remote site.
carinaman said:
I'm uncomfortable about the officers involved discussing that incident behind closed doors with a police federation rep.
And the officers are probably uncomfortable at the prospect of being investigated with the consideration of prosecution. If you want the availability of officers being prosecuted, then you accept they'll place themselves in the legally strongest position from the off. That includes meeting with the Fed early on. 'Fact finding' and finding out what occurred comes second.
How many different scenarios have been suggested to the locals and the media about how Sheku Bayoh died?
How many different scenarios were suggested when that chap with the restraining order in Devon covered himself in petrol before he was tasered?
In both cases the need to suggest hypothetical alternative scenarios could have been avoided if officers at the scene were equipped with officer worn video cameras.
Is any CCTV footage of the incident the led to the death of Sheku Bayoh available?
Did the police apologise after they made the mistake or mis-spoke saying that there was not CCTV footage from the area of the G20 protest march where alcoholic Ian Tomlinson was shoved over from behind?
Did the IPCC march into the Channel 4 News studio demanding the video footage that they had of the shove on Ian Tomlinson?
Does Scotland have a different external police watchpuppy stroke regulator that's different from the Independent Police Complaints Commission?
Does the Scottish equivalent of the IPCC have even less powers than the IPCC?
Some may think that the different Scottish way of doing things is better. External police governance seems not to be one of them.
How many different scenarios were suggested when that chap with the restraining order in Devon covered himself in petrol before he was tasered?
In both cases the need to suggest hypothetical alternative scenarios could have been avoided if officers at the scene were equipped with officer worn video cameras.
Is any CCTV footage of the incident the led to the death of Sheku Bayoh available?
Did the police apologise after they made the mistake or mis-spoke saying that there was not CCTV footage from the area of the G20 protest march where alcoholic Ian Tomlinson was shoved over from behind?
Did the IPCC march into the Channel 4 News studio demanding the video footage that they had of the shove on Ian Tomlinson?
Does Scotland have a different external police watchpuppy stroke regulator that's different from the Independent Police Complaints Commission?
Does the Scottish equivalent of the IPCC have even less powers than the IPCC?
Some may think that the different Scottish way of doing things is better. External police governance seems not to be one of them.
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