RE: Porsche 911 GTS vs Jaguar F-Type
Discussion
Bloody hell there's a lot of guff in this thread about ultimate handling of these modern cars.
There's absolutely no way you can spank even a modest modern sports car on todays roads. 20/30 years ago maybe but not any more. The roads are too congested and the cars are too good. All this guff about how they feel on the limit is just rubbish. Maybe one roundabout or one decent bend once in a blue moon you might just get a bit of a drift on assuming you actually have a little bit of talent but that's it. 99.9999% of the time they're sat in traffic stationary or stuck behind Mrs Biggins in her Nissan with the inevitable double white lines barring the overtake.
Why oh why does everyone keep falling for it. The reviews are written about how these cars behave at the absolute and many are taken in by it. When was the last time you saw anyone drifting a £100k car through a bend on a public road ? and how many of them have ever been near a track ? One of my cars is a bloody huge A8. I have no idea what it feels like on the limit I've never found a big enough empty enough stretch of road to find out. The Mrs Fiat 500 is a different kettle of fish though.
As someone has already said. The only thing that matters is how they make you feel. When you approach it, when you arrive in it, when you're sat there in the traffic. What's the use of all this potential when it never gets used.
The Jag get's my vote. It looks and sounds the Canines Genitalia and is a relative bargain. Who gives a stuff that the 911 has the potential to be point one of a second faster if it ever saw a track with the right driver behind the wheel.And even then he'd be having more fun in a £20k Caterham.
And breath.......
There's absolutely no way you can spank even a modest modern sports car on todays roads. 20/30 years ago maybe but not any more. The roads are too congested and the cars are too good. All this guff about how they feel on the limit is just rubbish. Maybe one roundabout or one decent bend once in a blue moon you might just get a bit of a drift on assuming you actually have a little bit of talent but that's it. 99.9999% of the time they're sat in traffic stationary or stuck behind Mrs Biggins in her Nissan with the inevitable double white lines barring the overtake.
Why oh why does everyone keep falling for it. The reviews are written about how these cars behave at the absolute and many are taken in by it. When was the last time you saw anyone drifting a £100k car through a bend on a public road ? and how many of them have ever been near a track ? One of my cars is a bloody huge A8. I have no idea what it feels like on the limit I've never found a big enough empty enough stretch of road to find out. The Mrs Fiat 500 is a different kettle of fish though.
As someone has already said. The only thing that matters is how they make you feel. When you approach it, when you arrive in it, when you're sat there in the traffic. What's the use of all this potential when it never gets used.
The Jag get's my vote. It looks and sounds the Canines Genitalia and is a relative bargain. Who gives a stuff that the 911 has the potential to be point one of a second faster if it ever saw a track with the right driver behind the wheel.And even then he'd be having more fun in a £20k Caterham.
And breath.......
I don't think anyone has mentioned limit handling at all! You can feel the handling balance of a car at 30mph through a modest bend. I went for a Sunday morning drive the other day and had a perfectly legal blast in my 911. I wouldn't have had any fun at all in an A8 because it's a mess at any speed.
kambites said:
ORD said:
The engineer was lying, I am afraid. That's errant nonsense. If they could have made it lighter, they would have.
It they could made it lighter without pushing the price up, they would have. These things are always a compromise. You can always make a car lighter if you're willing to throw money at it.
ORD said:
I don't think anyone has mentioned limit handling at all! You can feel the handling balance of a car at 30mph through a modest bend. I went for a Sunday morning drive the other day and had a perfectly legal blast in my 911. I wouldn't have had any fun at all in an A8 because it's a mess at any speed.
I'm sorry I don't see how you can have blast and legal in the same sentence unless you're on a moped. Have you driven a modern A8. I'm not pretending in any way it's the ultimate in driving finesse but it is a modern capable car that can cover ground very rapidly and does a fine job at what it's designed to do. If I wanted fun there's other vehicles I have to choose from. I was just trying to make the point that modern cars are so capable there's no way you can truly exploit them on todays roads.
Harry H said:
ORD said:
I don't think anyone has mentioned limit handling at all! You can feel the handling balance of a car at 30mph through a modest bend. I went for a Sunday morning drive the other day and had a perfectly legal blast in my 911. I wouldn't have had any fun at all in an A8 because it's a mess at any speed.
I'm sorry I don't see how you can have blast and legal in the same sentence unless you're on a moped. Have you driven a modern A8. I'm not pretending in any way it's the ultimate in driving finesse but it is a modern capable car that can cover ground very rapidly and does a fine job at what it's designed to do. If I wanted fun there's other vehicles I have to choose from. I was just trying to make the point that modern cars are so capable there's no way you can truly exploit them on todays roads.
I agree with him to a large extent. 
You don't need to completely break traction in a cloud of Clarksonesque tyresmoke to feel how the steering loads up in a decently quick corner, and do get nice seat-of-the-pants cues from the chassis as you interfere with throttle mid-bend and so on. In the right car you can get the impression that it wants to play. Some others just seem to complain that you're disturbing their straight line.jamieduff1981 said:
Despite being my mortal enemy as a Porsche Princess I agree with him to a large extent. You don't need to completely break traction in a cloud of Clarksonesque tyresmoke to feel how the steering loads up in a decently quick corner, and do get nice seat-of-the-pants cues from the chassis as you interfere with throttle mid-bend and so on. In the right car you can get the impression that it wants to play. Some others just seem to complain that you're disturbing their straight line.
Exactly. Go back to my original post at the top of the page. We're agreeing with each other. I agree with him to a large extent. You don't need to completely break traction in a cloud of Clarksonesque tyresmoke to feel how the steering loads up in a decently quick corner, and do get nice seat-of-the-pants cues from the chassis as you interfere with throttle mid-bend and so on. In the right car you can get the impression that it wants to play. Some others just seem to complain that you're disturbing their straight line.ORD said:
neil1jnr said:
BUT, this is about the F-Type vs 911, not the Cayman which you brought into the equation. So on the basis of what figures Phead's have given, the Jag is only 142KG heavier than the Porsche, that's less than have than the 300KG you are spouting. So is the 911 grossly overweight?
My view on this is that yes, the 911 is the 'better' car, but I would as sure hope so given the price difference here, however, V8S or 911 or V6 F-Type vs Cayman, I'd choose the Jag everytime just becuase of the sound it makes, particularly the V6.
The only car I've driven out of the ones mentioned is the Cayman in 'S' trim. Yes it was good, very good, but I would never buy one. It doesn't excite me and the gear ratios are just ridiculous.
The 911 is very light for what it is. It manages to have two more seats and still be about 250kg lighter than the Jag.My view on this is that yes, the 911 is the 'better' car, but I would as sure hope so given the price difference here, however, V8S or 911 or V6 F-Type vs Cayman, I'd choose the Jag everytime just becuase of the sound it makes, particularly the V6.
The only car I've driven out of the ones mentioned is the Cayman in 'S' trim. Yes it was good, very good, but I would never buy one. It doesn't excite me and the gear ratios are just ridiculous.
The V6 S weighed by Autocar came in at 1,755kg. The F-Type is a proper lardo. Heavier than a bloody 3 Series Touring!
Put an aftermarket exhaust on a Cayman and it would make all the silly farts and pops you want, as well as having a genuine induction roar (which a forced induction engine has to fake).
It's fine that you prefer the 911 but there is no point in saying things that aren't true let alone what you haven't even experienced such as the sound can be made by the Porsche by simple purchase of an aftermarket exhaust or that the ZF semi auto is slushy.
If you ever get chance for a blast in one then do it because you will never be able to hear the scale of the noises through YouTube clips
elementad said:
You can tell you haven't driven one. There is NO porsche I have ever heard with or without aftermarket exhaust that sounds anywhere near as good as an F Type and no exhaust could. The porsche isn't engineered to.
It's fine that you prefer the 911 but there is no point in saying things that aren't true let alone what you haven't even experienced such as the sound can be made by the Porsche by simple purchase of an aftermarket exhaust or that the ZF semi auto is slushy.
If you ever get chance for a blast in one then do it because you will never be able to hear the scale of the noises through YouTube clips
I thought the school term had started again...It's fine that you prefer the 911 but there is no point in saying things that aren't true let alone what you haven't even experienced such as the sound can be made by the Porsche by simple purchase of an aftermarket exhaust or that the ZF semi auto is slushy.
If you ever get chance for a blast in one then do it because you will never be able to hear the scale of the noises through YouTube clips
A NA flat six engine isn't capable of sounding as good as a fairly boggo V6 with a supercharger? Got ya. Because it's not 'engineered'? Right.
A four cylinder turd of an engine can be made to produce all the noise and pops and crackles in the world. It's a matter of engine mapping and exhaust design. That's it. The only thing you can't really change is the sound innate to the engine layout. The idea that a NA flat six isn't a good starting point for engine noise is pretty novel.
A simpler version: exhaust noise is made in the exhaust.
ORD said:
elementad said:
You can tell you haven't driven one. There is NO porsche I have ever heard with or without aftermarket exhaust that sounds anywhere near as good as an F Type and no exhaust could. The porsche isn't engineered to.
It's fine that you prefer the 911 but there is no point in saying things that aren't true let alone what you haven't even experienced such as the sound can be made by the Porsche by simple purchase of an aftermarket exhaust or that the ZF semi auto is slushy.
If you ever get chance for a blast in one then do it because you will never be able to hear the scale of the noises through YouTube clips
I thought the school term had started again...It's fine that you prefer the 911 but there is no point in saying things that aren't true let alone what you haven't even experienced such as the sound can be made by the Porsche by simple purchase of an aftermarket exhaust or that the ZF semi auto is slushy.
If you ever get chance for a blast in one then do it because you will never be able to hear the scale of the noises through YouTube clips
A NA flat six engine isn't capable of sounding as good as a fairly boggo V6 with a supercharger? Got ya. Because it's not 'engineered'? Right.
A four cylinder turd of an engine can be made to produce all the noise and pops and crackles in the world. It's a matter of engine mapping and exhaust design. That's it. The only thing you can't really change is the sound innate to the engine layout. The idea that a NA flat six isn't a good starting point for engine noise is pretty novel.
A simpler version: exhaust noise is made in the exhaust.
Hat off to you if you can be bothered buying a Porsche, waiting for warranty to expire, remap the ECU and fit an aftermarket exhaust which won't sound like an f type. Like I've said. I've never heard a Porsche sound like that.
elementad said:
ORD you've been on here a afternoon. It's been an entertaining read. I STILL don't like Porsches though despite your best efforts.
Hat off to you if you can be bothered buying a Porsche, waiting for warranty to expire, remap the ECU and fit an aftermarket exhaust which won't sound like an f type. Like I've said. I've never heard a Porsche sound like that.
A £50k Cayman with the sports exhaust sounds pretty similar to me. Utterly contrived and sHat off to you if you can be bothered buying a Porsche, waiting for warranty to expire, remap the ECU and fit an aftermarket exhaust which won't sound like an f type. Like I've said. I've never heard a Porsche sound like that.
t, but with all the whizzes and poops and so on. So need to even go aftermarket now that I think of it ORD said:
elementad said:
ORD you've been on here a afternoon. It's been an entertaining read. I STILL don't like Porsches though despite your best efforts.
Hat off to you if you can be bothered buying a Porsche, waiting for warranty to expire, remap the ECU and fit an aftermarket exhaust which won't sound like an f type. Like I've said. I've never heard a Porsche sound like that.
A £50k Cayman with the sports exhaust sounds pretty similar to me. Utterly contrived and sHat off to you if you can be bothered buying a Porsche, waiting for warranty to expire, remap the ECU and fit an aftermarket exhaust which won't sound like an f type. Like I've said. I've never heard a Porsche sound like that.
t, but with all the whizzes and poops and so on. So need to even go aftermarket now that I think of it Tried an F-Type V6S - absolutely loved it but thought proportionately not quite right. 2 kids ruled that I went for a bog standard 991 Carrera manual. In black. It's brilliant and I love it. Interesting though, when you don't own one they do look ho-hum another 911 but when you do, can't stop appreciating what a great looking car it is. View out of side mirror over fat rear wings is great and the rear end is fab
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