New Thread - Sensible(ish) head on now - Mansion rental
Discussion
Ok so following on from this thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Things were getting confusing and out of control, people on page 4 were still talking about the idea on page one.
So anyway, we have progressed a little since the silly 4.5 million deal originally discussed, thank you whoever posted for making me realise id be wasting my time.
The new idea---------------------
We have now, found a property that is up for rent, see below:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/proper...
Its also currently for sale
We are booked in to go and see it next week.
We would look to agree a 2 year set rental contract, each year paid up in full at the outset, with a one year break clause (we have sufficient to pay the full 2 years, but like the idea of the break clause.)
We would rent the property for two years, as a "test drive" period. We wouldn't need any outside funding, and being only the one property, should be quite easily manageable.
Being a smaller project, and in the civilised world a little more (not Cornwall), my OH can continue to work at current place until the property starts to become booked up enough that we are earning sufficient, and extra hands are needed.
I've already looked into insurance that is specifically for cottage rentals and is very comprehensive (£0 excess, old for new on all contents, loss of earnings, alternative accom for guests etc).
At the end of the 2 years, we can either decide to jack it in, and go back to work full time (easy to get work as a contractor), Renew the lease for another X years, or try and get the finance to buy the place.
If we manage to buy the place, the opportunities increase too, the property has 29 acres of land, mainly woods, with amazing views overlooking the valley and river below, we could either look to build a couple of smaller 2 bed cottages, or even look into posh summertime glamping for increased income.
This idea just seems more of a gooer to us, lower risk, try it out, build a brand and a business and see what we want to do in a year or two. A test drive period if you will.
This is all based on the owners going for it of course! Happy to put a big security buffer in a client account, provide them with the insurance certificates etc, we will also be sensible on who we allow to stay and keep a close eye on the property. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes and hopefully it's beneficial for everyone involved.
Wish me luck
Things were getting confusing and out of control, people on page 4 were still talking about the idea on page one.
So anyway, we have progressed a little since the silly 4.5 million deal originally discussed, thank you whoever posted for making me realise id be wasting my time.
The new idea---------------------
We have now, found a property that is up for rent, see below:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/proper...
Its also currently for sale
We are booked in to go and see it next week.
We would look to agree a 2 year set rental contract, each year paid up in full at the outset, with a one year break clause (we have sufficient to pay the full 2 years, but like the idea of the break clause.)
We would rent the property for two years, as a "test drive" period. We wouldn't need any outside funding, and being only the one property, should be quite easily manageable.
Being a smaller project, and in the civilised world a little more (not Cornwall), my OH can continue to work at current place until the property starts to become booked up enough that we are earning sufficient, and extra hands are needed.
I've already looked into insurance that is specifically for cottage rentals and is very comprehensive (£0 excess, old for new on all contents, loss of earnings, alternative accom for guests etc).
At the end of the 2 years, we can either decide to jack it in, and go back to work full time (easy to get work as a contractor), Renew the lease for another X years, or try and get the finance to buy the place.
If we manage to buy the place, the opportunities increase too, the property has 29 acres of land, mainly woods, with amazing views overlooking the valley and river below, we could either look to build a couple of smaller 2 bed cottages, or even look into posh summertime glamping for increased income.
This idea just seems more of a gooer to us, lower risk, try it out, build a brand and a business and see what we want to do in a year or two. A test drive period if you will.
This is all based on the owners going for it of course! Happy to put a big security buffer in a client account, provide them with the insurance certificates etc, we will also be sensible on who we allow to stay and keep a close eye on the property. I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes and hopefully it's beneficial for everyone involved.
Wish me luck
Its not a completely crazy idea. However if you build a good business, whats to stop the owners not renewing your lease and doing it themselves....?
These guys have many such properties (some been in the family for years), however they have usually been buying wrecks and doing them up:
http://www.therowleyestates.com/
I have no idea if they are playing "a long game" i.e. the income allows the estate to tick over, intending cash in on the property at some point in the future, or if they are making a killing every month.
Incidentally they also had a TV featured house.
These guys have many such properties (some been in the family for years), however they have usually been buying wrecks and doing them up:
http://www.therowleyestates.com/
I have no idea if they are playing "a long game" i.e. the income allows the estate to tick over, intending cash in on the property at some point in the future, or if they are making a killing every month.
Incidentally they also had a TV featured house.
still say you need more detailed business plans - there are too many 'optimistic' bits in your comments (building extra houses etc.) - have you checked planning etc. have you done analysis on the area / number of people wanting what you offer / how much they are prepared to pay / who is offering the same locally / who are your competitors / etc...
if you are going to do it - draw up a contract with a right to buy at the end.
if you are going to do it - draw up a contract with a right to buy at the end.
If I was the owner of that property I'd be highly cautious about letting it out to someone who was then effectively going to sublet it on AirBNB and rent it out to parties, weddings, etc.
If fact, not sure it's big enough for weddings, so I think your market is hen parties, big family holidays, maybe corporate events. You say you're going to be "sensible" in who you let use the property, but no one sends an enquiry stating they intend to trash the place - how are you going to vet potential visitors?
What overheads have you planned for? I'd be surprised if you can make this work well enough for you and your partner to take even a modest salary.
If fact, not sure it's big enough for weddings, so I think your market is hen parties, big family holidays, maybe corporate events. You say you're going to be "sensible" in who you let use the property, but no one sends an enquiry stating they intend to trash the place - how are you going to vet potential visitors?
What overheads have you planned for? I'd be surprised if you can make this work well enough for you and your partner to take even a modest salary.
I am fairly certain that you would need planning permission to change a private residence into a substantial B&B.
I can't for the life of me understand why the current owners would agree to that, unless they were desperate for the rental income.
It will also take a couple of months at least, and it's likely that substantial alterations would be required to meet more stringent Health & safety requirements
I can't for the life of me understand why the current owners would agree to that, unless they were desperate for the rental income.
It will also take a couple of months at least, and it's likely that substantial alterations would be required to meet more stringent Health & safety requirements
Hi Op
Stop thinking and contact the owners, they might and (unless desperate) will say no
If they say yes contact the LA and ascertain what laws or changes of use will be applicable and what rates
Then factor in what you can do and what is financially viable. Our office rent is almost as much as our rates, do not underestimate this!
Finally, if the owners agree, you sweat your b
ks off making it work , build up a good trade and start making money the owners could chuck you out at the break/lease end and do it themselves. Although if it works I would guess its a proven idea.
Secondly the grounds will cost a lot to maintain to a good level, depending on what they cover, you will need to employ someone, or pay a company to do it, this can eat into profits and employing people is a complete bloody PITA!
Good idea though and how your partner can carry on working
P.S: You cant be too selective over clients:
1: You will need the money
2: How are you going to tell if they are hooligans via a booking form (PEOPLE LIE)
3. If you turn people away, read up on discrimination laws!
Stop thinking and contact the owners, they might and (unless desperate) will say no
If they say yes contact the LA and ascertain what laws or changes of use will be applicable and what rates
Then factor in what you can do and what is financially viable. Our office rent is almost as much as our rates, do not underestimate this!
Finally, if the owners agree, you sweat your b
ks off making it work , build up a good trade and start making money the owners could chuck you out at the break/lease end and do it themselves. Although if it works I would guess its a proven idea.Secondly the grounds will cost a lot to maintain to a good level, depending on what they cover, you will need to employ someone, or pay a company to do it, this can eat into profits and employing people is a complete bloody PITA!
Good idea though and how your partner can carry on working
P.S: You cant be too selective over clients:
1: You will need the money
2: How are you going to tell if they are hooligans via a booking form (PEOPLE LIE)
3. If you turn people away, read up on discrimination laws!
Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Friday 28th August 14:14
No planning permission or H&S needed as its sort term lets, same rules apply as letting your house through an EA AFAIK.
Re: Being selective, it will be no stag party's, no young single sex groups etc.
Cooperate bookings will require the company details etc.
At the end of the day, there is a security deposit and a comprehensive insurance policy that covers everything from a bent chair leg, to a full re-build.
And yes, of course a full and very through business plan will be put together, no point until I find out if the owners would consider it though.
Re: Being selective, it will be no stag party's, no young single sex groups etc.
Cooperate bookings will require the company details etc.
At the end of the day, there is a security deposit and a comprehensive insurance policy that covers everything from a bent chair leg, to a full re-build.
And yes, of course a full and very through business plan will be put together, no point until I find out if the owners would consider it though.
sidekickdmr said:
And yes, of course a full and very through business plan will be put together, no point until I find out if the owners would consider it though.
I would say the hard part will be finding owners that will agree to such a deal. It's not hard to put a business plan together, just to see if the idea is even feasible. I would do the figures first, and then take other people's time with viewings, etc.Far better to do what the present owners did.
Buy a wreck. Do it up. Get a TV show to film the doing up for free advertising. Get a massive mortgage when finished and then either sell it for a profit or holiday let it as you planned.
This plan comes unstuck if you can't afford to buy the wreck and do it up.
Buy a wreck. Do it up. Get a TV show to film the doing up for free advertising. Get a massive mortgage when finished and then either sell it for a profit or holiday let it as you planned.
This plan comes unstuck if you can't afford to buy the wreck and do it up.
sidekickdmr said:
Yes, like a holiday cottage for large family get togethers, coorporate do's and groups of friends.
Ill be living very close, doing a key hand over/check in and collect/check out, and always be on hand for issues etc.
No harm in asking hey?
Exactly, I would ask before you put anymore effort into the idea at that property , permission will be your first milestone Ill be living very close, doing a key hand over/check in and collect/check out, and always be on hand for issues etc.
No harm in asking hey?
Surely you'd be better off borrowing £4m and buying a huge house somewhere rural with decent sized grounds, gamekeepers cottage etc - live in the cottage. Rent the big house out, nicely down out for self catering to keep staff costs low. Marquee on the lawn for wedding etc. if you find one with a few other lodges/cottages on you could rent them out too. If you and wife work hard enough it'll be much better.
You should try that instead.
You should try that instead.
johnfm said:
Surely you'd be better off borrowing £4m and buying a huge house somewhere rural with decent sized grounds, gamekeepers cottage etc - live in the cottage. Rent the big house out, nicely down out for self catering to keep staff costs low. Marquee on the lawn for wedding etc. if you find one with a few other lodges/cottages on you could rent them out too. If you and wife work hard enough it'll be much better.
You should try that instead.
That was the original plan. If you know someone giving £4m loans to people/organisations with little experience and virtually no collateral, please let me know!!You should try that instead.
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