RE: Porsche 911 (997): PH Buying Guide

RE: Porsche 911 (997): PH Buying Guide

Author
Discussion

ronnie middlemis

10 posts

138 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Chances are if you can only afford £20,000 - £30,000 for a 997 then you can't handle a engine rebuild cost £7,000. So only buy one if you have a great warranty, or you are a Porsche engineer. believe me else engine go pop, not just one problem but a few .The big one is the ims bearing ,if this goes your engine is toast, from 05 onwards they upgraded the bearing ,but it's no guaranty ,I've seen these go.The next is bore score, a dead give away is a heavy ticking sound from the engine , by definition you have a scoring on your cylinders , still a very expensive repair , and a less common fault is the head gasket ,£2,000 job .Gen 2 997s don't have these problems ,but much more expensive , a new clutch is the best part of £1200 two new rear tyres are £800 . if that doesn't put you off try finding a car that's had the rebuilt , they are about , and much the same price as one that hasn't . Haven't said all this , they are a lovely shape ,they must be one of the best looking 911s ever built including the swb 60s model and of course the 993 , and they are not depreciating so chances are you will get your money back . Your only here once ,,go for it!

charliedb2

74 posts

131 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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kmack said:
I think its totally unacceptable that Porsche build such troublesome engines, especially as there supposed to be the best of German Engineering, not to mention what they cost in the first place. Perhaps that's why they only provide 2 year warranties to start with when most other manufacturers give 3 years... Lack of confidence in there own products?
The warranty is 3 years on new cars and 2 years on used now so well in line with the market for new and generous on used. A while back (when the engines sold seemed to have issues) it was 2 years on new.

Hellbound

2,500 posts

175 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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So what you do is work out your budget and subtract £5000 odd from it. Find your ideal gen 2 997, go over it thoroughly before buying and then take it to a very good specialist who will use some of your £5k (or more) to fix every potential issue.

Then enjoy the car as intended.

I do think cars which have had the rebuild etc. done do command a premium so it's not all money down the pan.

For me having the engine behind you is worth the hassle.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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One can't really expect a company like Porsche to produce engines as reliable as a company selling orders of magnitude more unit, they simply won't have the R&D budget. I can't think of a company as small as Porsche who produce their own engines who manage better reliability without charging considerably more for their cars.

As others have said, you simply have to factor either a potential engine rebuild or a warranty into your budget.

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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I dont know. Considering how expensive these cars are / were, you would expect them to be reliable.

Manufacturers shouldnt release products that fail in numbers above what might be considered acceptable (I appreciate there will always be failures, and to an extent a lot of this can be placed at the foot of incorrect maintenance).

I just get the impression from all the noise on these forums that these cars seem to fail in numbers above what the market suggests is acceptable.

If I were buying a banger, that might be one thing. But if I were spending as much as a new car, then I'd be peeved.

I think the advice of buying a later model car is sound. Sadly, I wont ever buy ANY 911, as I dont think they're worth the asking price. 911's biggest problem is actually cannibalism from cheaper and possibly better cars from within their own family.

williamp

19,215 posts

272 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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kambites said:
One can't really expect a company like Porsche to produce engines as reliable as a company selling orders of magnitude more unit, they simply won't have the R&D budget. I can't think of a company as small as Porsche who produce their own engines who manage better reliability without charging considerably more for their cars.

As others have said, you simply have to factor either a potential engine rebuild or a warranty into your budget.
Porsche are not a small business, and make one of the highest profits on its cars. The engine issues of the 996, from the late 90s should not still be there 10 years later. With any other manufscturer this would be unforgivable. Jaguar or aston martin, for example.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/200409220055...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/13/business/worldbu...

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Love the 997 really great front end looks and the spider alloys lovely. (Rear hmm it's fine GT3 perfection).

These are £65~80k cars when new and servicing and running costs don't decrease as you can buy them for Fiesta money that's the problem people really overlook this and wen the costs come in you either kick the can down the road run it faulty or flog it on to another who might do the same.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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williamp said:
Porsche are not a small business, and make one of the highest profits on its cars.
I didn't claim but it was, but it's a damned slight smaller than, for example, Toyota or Ford who probably spend more testing an alternator than Porsche do testing an entire engine.

The old Aston/Jaguar lumps are probably a fair point, but as I understand it Jaguar now have a single family of engines which will sell in considerably greater numbers than Porsche's flat sixes and AM are about to stop making their own engines entirely? How many companies smaller than Porsche are left which actually produce their own engines in cars without a six figure price tag? Personally, I'd be quite happy with an off-the-shelf lump from VW but for those who value bespoke engines, presumably the unreliability is a worthwhile trade-off.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 30th August 20:01

HONEYMON57ER

562 posts

209 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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I had the engine dilemma and decided to get a 997.2 which I collect this Wednesday .
I had a 996 a few years ago and it was very reliable although always had the feeling that I dodged the bullet
And it's always in the back of your Mind that it MAY happen.
Peace of mind can be so much more expensive.

Nat-d23kv

3 posts

103 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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I don't see what all the fuss is about. Porsche 911 still the most underwhelming car I have ever driven.
Give me a Lamborghini Huracan every time.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Nat-d23kv said:
Give me a Lamborghini Huracan every time.
Slight difference in price. hehe

drabux

18 posts

264 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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The 996 IMS issue was always exaggerated, in my opinion, although I don't think that's so true of the 997 (3.8 especially) bore scoring problems. For me, if I had 30k to spend on a water-cooled 911 it'd be a 996tt. And I did. It has an entirely different and more reliable Mezger engine.

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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kambites said:
Nat-d23kv said:
Give me a Lamborghini Huracan every time.
Slight difference in price. hehe
Quite. wobble

Olf

11,974 posts

217 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Avoiding nav in any cars like this is a must in my opinion. Why buy a car as a keeper if half the dash is taken up by a chunk of 'tech' that was st when it was new and isn't even as useful as a cup holder 10 years on. I bought a Z4MC and purposefully set out to avoid buying a nav car because having a digital relic in the dash board isn't going to help values in 5, 10 or 15 years time.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Olf said:
Avoiding nav in any cars like this is a must in my opinion. Why buy a car as a keeper if half the dash is taken up by a chunk of 'tech' that was st when it was new and isn't even as useful as a cup holder 10 years on. I bought a Z4MC and purposefully set out to avoid buying a nav car because having a digital relic in the dash board isn't going to help values in 5, 10 or 15 years time.
However that might be pretty hard to do with the 997. This was and is the era nav fitted is pretty much standard or required to be fitted for a car of that value when new. Also many of these were used as commuting cars - God knows I've seen enough M40/M3/M25/M4 over the last 10odd years they are that reliable and offer a lot of extra punch so to speak.


So the desire to have no nav might be like hens teeth.
I don't see it as too much of an issue as Maps are easily updated plus it's more than just Nav it's the interface with the vehicle so either toggle through the Rev counter or do it in the Nav.


I suppose your angle is a kaput Nav could write off a car

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Nothing forces you to use the nav if it's installed. The wife's Skoda has it and aside from switching it on once to see if it worked before we bought the car, we've used a Tomtom ever since.

jakesmith

9,461 posts

170 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Welshbeef said:
However that might be pretty hard to do with the 997. This was and is the era nav fitted is pretty much standard or required to be fitted for a car of that value when new. Also many of these were used as commuting cars - God knows I've seen enough M40/M3/M25/M4 over the last 10odd years they are that reliable and offer a lot of extra punch so to speak.


So the desire to have no nav might be like hens teeth.
I don't see it as too much of an issue as Maps are easily updated plus it's more than just Nav it's the interface with the vehicle so either toggle through the Rev counter or do it in the Nav.


I suppose your angle is a kaput Nav could write off a car
They all have the PCM screen & I thought they all have nav, unlike the Vantage or Z4 mentioned where it was an option & without it you don't get the screen. It definitely makes the car more desirable even if illogical because most people driving a premium sportscar want an integrated solution & no wire / sucker mark to remove from windscreen. It's not a huge deal, you can replace it for a brand new Pioneer Avic for well under £1k and have touchsceen bluetooth DAB etc

Nat-d23kv

3 posts

103 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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Quote " Give me a Lamborghini Huracan every time."

The reply was .......Different price plan Its a fair point, well made and given . I just happen to have driven one recently and I was mighty impressed.

There are many alternatives for the same price or less. My personal preference is the E39M5 .............




Pommygranite

14,229 posts

215 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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turboman786 said:
Owned a base 3.6 997.a few years ago......bought purely after reading how ace they were in reviews


Sold it pretty fast and bought an e92 m3 dct...which was leagues ahead in every respect......
Would love to hear more about this - what did you think was so good about the M3 in comparison?


birdcage

2,838 posts

204 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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A 997 is not a car for people who really save up for a car or are absolutely passionate about cars...yet

An old LHD M3 or Audi Quattro yes but this is a car that has been driven hard from cold or not driven at all mostly and then there are the engine issues.