The World at War - sobering footage

The World at War - sobering footage

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matchmaker

Original Poster:

8,484 posts

200 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
I recently bought the box set of the remastered version of the above and we've been working our way through it. Last night we arrived at episode 20 - "Genocide". About the Nazi "Final Solution".

We were reduced to silence by the footage - the graphic images of the murder of the Jews and the horror of the extermination camps are truly sobering.

Not an easy watch - but recommended.

Edited by matchmaker on Sunday 30th August 14:51

Eric Mc

121,958 posts

265 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Have had the box set for quite a while. I watched the series when it was originally broadcast back in 1973/74. Hard to believe that a work of such importance and magnitude would have been contemplated by an ITV franchise company (Thames Television).

Times change.

matchmaker

Original Poster:

8,484 posts

200 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Have had the box set for quite a while. I watched the series when it was originally broadcast back in 1973/74. Hard to believe that a work of such importance and magnitude would have been contemplated by an ITV franchise company (Thames Television).

Times change.
I too watched it when originally broadcast, but was probably a bit young to take it in. Apparently it would cost about £12m to make at todays prices - although it would be impossible to make today anyway.

ClaphamGT3

11,292 posts

243 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
What I find so mind-blowing about TWAW is the interviews with the key protagonists - Speer, Horrocks, Doenitz etc. amazing primary history.

Eric Mc

121,958 posts

265 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
It was one of the spurs behind making it when they did. Jeremy Isaacs knew that time was running out to interview those main protagonists who were still alive. They actually started filming the interviews around 1971.

Juggsy1

73 posts

109 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
What I find so mind-blowing about TWAW is the interviews with the key protagonists - Speer, Horrocks, Doenitz etc. amazing primary history.
What I find mind blowing is despite all the evidence, both by witnesses and archive film, there are still people around who deny it and claim it was a total fabrication.

Eric Mc

121,958 posts

265 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Ignore them.

You will always get mad, crazy and stupid people. Unfortunately, the internet allows them access to a way of spreading their garbage.

Derek Smith

45,613 posts

248 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
The opening sequence is horrific. I saw as many episodes as I could when originally broadcast - it was compulsive viewing - and it contrasted dramatically from the flags and heroes stories I had read and saw at the cinema. The Cruel Sea was about as realistic as it got. It was the catalyst for my father to tell me something about his war. He volunteered in 1938, but came out of it utterly anti-war. It seems an odd thing to say, but those chats were the closest I ever got to him. He spoke from the heart without any holding back.

My father-in-law was a prisoner of war, working on roads in Burma with Korean guards. He died of cancer and when on opiates used to drift back into those days and wake up screaming.

One of the most honourable projects ever undertaken. They intended to show war as it happened. I seem to remember some contemporaneous criticism about being too negative.

I bought the video set way back. It was offered in episodes, two a month, over a year. It became eagerly awaited and friends came to our house to watch it. The old boy next door was in tears once. The concentration camp chapter was, as the OP says, particularly horrific. For me, with many uncles in the RN and Merchant Marine, the one on the North Atlantic convoys stuck in my mind.

Yet we've since gone to war, apparently with the full support of the public, to kill people we've never met.

The series is sobering indeed. It became the topic of conversation at work. It should be compulsory viewing for children in schools.

Well done ITV. In those days the advertising revenue allowed them the freedom to take such risks. I see it is 19th in the top 100 greatest British television programmes, beaten by Blue Peter and Dr Who.


Derek Smith

45,613 posts

248 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Juggsy1 said:
What I find mind blowing is despite all the evidence, both by witnesses and archive film, there are still people around who deny it and claim it was a total fabrication.
Despite my father believing how evil the nazi regime was, he thought the stories of the atrocities and concentration camps was mostly propaganda. He knew Jewish families who'd fled the Kristallnacht but, of course, they had little/no knowledge of the exterminations.

When looking through his shed I came across a number of newspapers wrapped up. I opened one, The Sketch to find the issue that dealt with the liberation of one of the camps, probably the first by Allied troops, Buchenwald.

My father told me that when he saw the issue he realised that he'd been totally wrong. He said he had trouble coping with not believing, so had kept the issues.

Denying the Holocaust is a political decision. Nothing to do with the facts.


nicanary

9,790 posts

146 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
The opening scenes are shot at the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's near Limoges - if you're ever passing through the area it is something which you need to visit. There's an awfulness about it which is difficult to convey on these pages. When I was there I realised that I couldn't hear any birds singing or notice any wildlife - it was almost as if they knew, and had fled for ever.

Sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic. It's not a place to take small children.

matchmaker

Original Poster:

8,484 posts

200 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The opening sequence is horrific. I saw as many episodes as I could when originally broadcast - it was compulsive viewing - and it contrasted dramatically from the flags and heroes stories I had read and saw at the cinema. The Cruel Sea was about as realistic as it got. It was the catalyst for my father to tell me something about his war. He volunteered in 1938, but came out of it utterly anti-war. It seems an odd thing to say, but those chats were the closest I ever got to him. He spoke from the heart without any holding back.

My father-in-law was a prisoner of war, working on roads in Burma with Korean guards. He died of cancer and when on opiates used to drift back into those days and wake up screaming.

One of the most honourable projects ever undertaken. They intended to show war as it happened. I seem to remember some contemporaneous criticism about being too negative.

I bought the video set way back. It was offered in episodes, two a month, over a year. It became eagerly awaited and friends came to our house to watch it. The old boy next door was in tears once. The concentration camp chapter was, as the OP says, particularly horrific. For me, with many uncles in the RN and Merchant Marine, the one on the North Atlantic convoys stuck in my mind.

Yet we've since gone to war, apparently with the full support of the public, to kill people we've never met.

The series is sobering indeed. It became the topic of conversation at work. It should be compulsory viewing for children in schools.

Well done ITV. In those days the advertising revenue allowed them the freedom to take such risks. I see it is 19th in the top 100 greatest British television programmes, beaten by Blue Peter and Dr Who.
I quite agree!

Tango13

8,423 posts

176 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
I remember when this was broadcast on BBC2,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266425/?ref_=nm_flmg_...

Quite a disturbing film, the following day one of the redtops commended BBC2 for broadcasting it but commented that it should have gone out Saturday night prime time on BBC1

Eric Mc

121,958 posts

265 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Got it on DVD.

ClaphamGT3

11,292 posts

243 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
nicanary said:
The opening scenes are shot at the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's near Limoges - if you're ever passing through the area it is something which you need to visit. There's an awfulness about it which is difficult to convey on these pages. When I was there I realised that I couldn't hear any birds singing or notice any wildlife - it was almost as if they knew, and had fled for ever.

Sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic. It's not a place to take small children.
The sobering thing is that the atrocity at Oradour was by no means a one-off. The Nazis did the same thing in Lidice in Czechoslovakia and Putten in the Netherlands as well as many others in Russia

nicanary

9,790 posts

146 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
nicanary said:
The opening scenes are shot at the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's near Limoges - if you're ever passing through the area it is something which you need to visit. There's an awfulness about it which is difficult to convey on these pages. When I was there I realised that I couldn't hear any birds singing or notice any wildlife - it was almost as if they knew, and had fled for ever.

Sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic. It's not a place to take small children.
The sobering thing is that the atrocity at Oradour was by no means a one-off. The Nazis did the same thing in Lidice in Czechoslovakia and Putten in the Netherlands as well as many others in Russia
I think I'm right in claiming that the local commander actually targeted the wrong village, in the belief that one of their columns had been attacked by Resistance men from there, when they had actually come from a different village. It just beggars belief.

tyrrell

1,670 posts

208 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Yes for me always compulsive viewing, have watched it time and time again, the closing theme tune I can reply in my mind over and over again, the narration by LO is haunting and so well judged, top top series.

Siko

1,985 posts

242 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
It's the best documentary of all time, imo. I remember watching it on the telly and have watched the dvd twice through now. I still get shivers down my spine when the theme music starts and the flame appears, as others have said what absolutely makes it for me is the interviewees. The quality of who they spoke to is unsurpassed and will obviously remain so for all time, it's just incredible. The voice over by Olivier has the right element of gravity and pathos and I find when I watch I cant't draw myself away, it's just.....powerful.

I feel guilt watching it, as some of my (Austrian) family were members of the party, although most of them paid the ultimate price and were certainly not involved in anything 'bad', just regular military..but all the same I find it shameful. I look at Isis and wonder if it's the same brainwashing.......?

NNH

1,518 posts

132 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Juggsy1 said:
What I find mind blowing is despite all the evidence, both by witnesses and archive film, there are still people around who deny it and claim it was a total fabrication.
Despite my father believing how evil the nazi regime was, he thought the stories of the atrocities and concentration camps was mostly propaganda. He knew Jewish families who'd fled the Kristallnacht but, of course, they had little/no knowledge of the exterminations.

When looking through his shed I came across a number of newspapers wrapped up. I opened one, The Sketch to find the issue that dealt with the liberation of one of the camps, probably the first by Allied troops, Buchenwald.

My father told me that when he saw the issue he realised that he'd been totally wrong. He said he had trouble coping with not believing, so had kept the issues.

Denying the Holocaust is a political decision. Nothing to do with the facts.
That says a lot about your father's moral courage - thanks for sharing a powerful story.

rupert the dog

1,433 posts

217 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
nicanary said:
The opening scenes are shot at the French village of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's near Limoges - if you're ever passing through the area it is something which you need to visit. There's an awfulness about it which is difficult to convey on these pages. When I was there I realised that I couldn't hear any birds singing or notice any wildlife - it was almost as if they knew, and had fled for ever.

Sorry if that sounds a bit melodramatic. It's not a place to take small children.
We went there last year, a truly sobering and moving experience. I know I may be naive, but it's still hard to believe that so-called civilised people can do these things.

ClaphamGT3

11,292 posts

243 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
Spurred by this thread, I watched a couple of episodes last night, including the one about the bomber offensive, which included a long and absolutely fascinating interview with Arthur Harris.

One thing that surprises me though. I am almost certain that they didn't interview Montgomery, although he lived until 1976, well after the series was filmed.mi wonder why?