Discussion
I've always been curious about the way some once very common cars have almost disappeared while others seem to be almost increasing. At Dunsfold yesterday there were plenty of Fords being shown off. Cortinas, Escorts, even Granadas. But I couldn'te a single Zephyr. I can understand the Corsair being a bit obscure but the Zephyr had a following even at the time. And what about the original Capri? Surely the exact combination of straightforward mechanicals and bizarre styling that normally makes for a popular classic, yet I haven't seen one for decades. Did they all rust?
I was there too on Saturday and saw the said cars. Wrong sort of show for them really.
If you get yourself to events like the Enfield Pageant or Bromley Pageant you'll see a good few of the above mentioned.
FWIW, that was my first visit to Wings & Wheels in. quite possibly, 25+ years and the show really has changed. When i went as a young boy with dad the show had a very large RC model (of both aviation and cars) contingent. It was a good show though nonetheless.
If you get yourself to events like the Enfield Pageant or Bromley Pageant you'll see a good few of the above mentioned.
FWIW, that was my first visit to Wings & Wheels in. quite possibly, 25+ years and the show really has changed. When i went as a young boy with dad the show had a very large RC model (of both aviation and cars) contingent. It was a good show though nonetheless.
M3John said:
I was there too on Saturday and saw the said cars. Wrong sort of show for them really.
If you get yourself to events like the Enfield Pageant or Bromley Pageant you'll see a good few of the above mentioned.
This.If you get yourself to events like the Enfield Pageant or Bromley Pageant you'll see a good few of the above mentioned.
Plenty of very nicely restored Z-cars (Mk1 & Mk11 especially) around. Not many Mk3's though it has to be said which is a shame.
Dr Jekyll said:
I've always been curious about the way some once very common cars have almost disappeared while others seem to be almost increasing. At Dunsfold yesterday there were plenty of Fords being shown off. Cortinas, Escorts, even Granadas. But I couldn'te a single Zephyr. I can understand the Corsair being a bit obscure but the Zephyr had a following even at the time. And what about the original Capri? Surely the exact combination of straightforward mechanicals and bizarre styling that normally makes for a popular classic, yet I haven't seen one for decades. Did they all rust?
It probably depends what type of show you are at, to the content you'll get.As for why more Escorts than Capri's. Well this is probably easier to answer than you may think.
1. Ford will have sold more Escorts than they did Capri's. So given the same attrition rate, there will still be more of them.
2. Just look at the cars being sold today. There are far more bland hatchbacks being sold than sports cars. Even for similar money people flock towards the dull and dreary. So as a classic you still get a large amount of ordinary cars vs the more interesting ones.
I went to the Thames Valley meet (mainly TVR) last month and someone had a Corsair GT Convertible (by Crayford) there. Got chatting to him and it seems he also has a saloon and one of the Abbott Estates as well.
Trader mate of mine will be selling a MkIII Zodiac soon - he's had a couple of Zephyrs in the last couple of years so there are still a few around.
Trader mate of mine will be selling a MkIII Zodiac soon - he's had a couple of Zephyrs in the last couple of years so there are still a few around.
300bhp/ton said:
It probably depends what type of show you are at, to the content you'll get.
As for why more Escorts than Capri's. Well this is probably easier to answer than you may think.
1. Ford will have sold more Escorts than they did Capri's. So given the same attrition rate, there will still be more of them.
2. Just look at the cars being sold today. There are far more bland hatchbacks being sold than sports cars. Even for similar money people flock towards the dull and dreary. So as a classic you still get a large amount of ordinary cars vs the more interesting ones.
My point was that attrition rates seem to vary so the survivor numbers seem out of sync with the number sold. For example the way there almost seem to be more VW Beetles and T3s now than then but whereas in the 70s you might see a T2/1500/Variant for every 10 Beetles, it's now maybe 1 for 200. I'd expect the Corsair to be rare because they weren't made for long. But Mk 3 and 4 Zephyrs were pretty common in their day and they aren't just rarer than Cortinas but comparatively rarer now than then.As for why more Escorts than Capri's. Well this is probably easier to answer than you may think.
1. Ford will have sold more Escorts than they did Capri's. So given the same attrition rate, there will still be more of them.
2. Just look at the cars being sold today. There are far more bland hatchbacks being sold than sports cars. Even for similar money people flock towards the dull and dreary. So as a classic you still get a large amount of ordinary cars vs the more interesting ones.
As for Capris and Escorts, I'd expect this
to have a lower attrition rate than this
Dr Jekyll said:
As for Capris and Escorts, I'd expect this
to have a lower attrition rate than this
Except there made many, many more of the latter compared to the former....the Capri was only on sale for just over a year and they only made about 20,000 of them, and they were not exactly a loved car at the time. Many succumbed to the tin worm early on, and by the time that they gained 'cult status' as a classic Ford 20 odd years later, they were even more rare.to have a lower attrition rate than this
I nearly bought a Consul Capri as my first car some 35 odd years ago, and there wasn't that many left then!
The question is, restore or race/rod....
The pursists may gag on a classic car turned super gasser (or street rod) but quite often it was a rotting wreck before Mr Madspannerman got his hands on it, in fact given the value of some classics only a rotter will get turned to a rod/race car
The pursists may gag on a classic car turned super gasser (or street rod) but quite often it was a rotting wreck before Mr Madspannerman got his hands on it, in fact given the value of some classics only a rotter will get turned to a rod/race car
Upatdawn said:
Many years ago (40) there were some London/Essex lads/brothers who decided the Mk1 Zephyr was the only car to have, I remember they had a few at SPR racing..... who were they?
Sounds like the Harris brothers - search the forum as they are mentioned a nunmber of times in the modified threads Dr Jekyll said:
My point was that attrition rates seem to vary so the survivor numbers seem out of sync with the number sold. For example the way there almost seem to be more VW Beetles and T3s now than then but whereas in the 70s you might see a T2/1500/Variant for every 10 Beetles, it's now maybe 1 for 200. I'd expect the Corsair to be rare because they weren't made for long. But Mk 3 and 4 Zephyrs were pretty common in their day and they aren't just rarer than Cortinas but comparatively rarer now than then.
As for Capris and Escorts, I'd expect this
to have a lower attrition rate than this
I think there are several things going on here.As for Capris and Escorts, I'd expect this
to have a lower attrition rate than this
While I'm sure they did make many Zephyrs, did they really make more of them than Cortinas?
That and while the attrition rate will have slowed, it won't have stopped.
Then there is the desirability thing. If you where a child of the 80's or mid 70's, then you'll remember things like a Cortina, and may even of had one as a family car. This means people of this age are likely to want to look after and restore cars from this era.
But a child from that age is far less likely to have found memories of a Zephyr. So they are cars that might not be so favoured by today's core of classic car owners.
This is evident at many car shows. I was at a large 1500 show a month or so ago, on display there was a Mk3 Escort, a Vauxhall Caviller and a couple of Nova's. Personally I see little interest in such cars and don't think they are really old enough to be at the show. But obviously other people disagree and have decided to restore and cherish these much more modern cars over established classics such as a Rover P6, Triumph 2000 or even a Cortina.
I suspect this is largely due to familiarity from growing up with such cars.
aeropilot said:
Dr Jekyll said:
As for Capris and Escorts, I'd expect this
to have a lower attrition rate than this
Except there made many, many more of the latter compared to the former....the Capri was only on sale for just over a year and they only made about 20,000 of them, and they were not exactly a loved car at the time. Many succumbed to the tin worm early on, and by the time that they gained 'cult status' as a classic Ford 20 odd years later, they were even more rare.to have a lower attrition rate than this
I nearly bought a Consul Capri as my first car some 35 odd years ago, and there wasn't that many left then!
The more common Classic fared little better. Someone I knew bought one new, but it was already victim of the tin worm straight out of the factory.
Old Fords certainly suffered plenty from tin-worm, although so did most makes in the 50s/60s/70s/80s, but they also got stolen, raced and crashed quite frequently!
But what certainly culled huge numbers of Cortinas, Zehpyrs, Granadas some Capris and even Sierras when they reached the age of 10 or so years was banger racing!
A mate of mine got through quite a few some years ago (I helped once or twice)!
Maybe a shame, but they were virtually scrap when we did it and it was great fun.
In any case we may have helped boost the values of those that survived!
But what certainly culled huge numbers of Cortinas, Zehpyrs, Granadas some Capris and even Sierras when they reached the age of 10 or so years was banger racing!
A mate of mine got through quite a few some years ago (I helped once or twice)!
Maybe a shame, but they were virtually scrap when we did it and it was great fun.
In any case we may have helped boost the values of those that survived!
banger racing yes but most are fit for scrap anyway,
there's still a lot of zodiac/zefers/anglia early pops,105e, and Capris hiding in sheds over here but people think a rusty classic is worth something, can be some interesting stuff on donedeal.ie now and then,
also good replacement panels for all the above are hard got or impossible or f*cking crap and expensive escorts and Granada stuff is available and fiestas,
for example.. there is two manufacturers of panels for capris neither are great and only a fraction of what's needed, older less common cars are worse,
point is for a fair price quality panels are available for most other makes/models but with the old British fords which did rust[a lot] panels are scarce/expensive and there isn't much new stuff being produced so you'll see less and less overtime, pity especially when you see a yearone,[classic U.S.] body catalogue
there's still a lot of zodiac/zefers/anglia early pops,105e, and Capris hiding in sheds over here but people think a rusty classic is worth something, can be some interesting stuff on donedeal.ie now and then,
also good replacement panels for all the above are hard got or impossible or f*cking crap and expensive escorts and Granada stuff is available and fiestas,
for example.. there is two manufacturers of panels for capris neither are great and only a fraction of what's needed, older less common cars are worse,
point is for a fair price quality panels are available for most other makes/models but with the old British fords which did rust[a lot] panels are scarce/expensive and there isn't much new stuff being produced so you'll see less and less overtime, pity especially when you see a yearone,[classic U.S.] body catalogue
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