Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
yonex said:
Ares said:
Only as touchy as those who eschew diesel get about doing so 
Diesels do sound like s
t. A decent 6cyl oil burner sounds better than most 3/4-cyl petrol, but like for like, it is a major downside....but the only real downside. revs are a misnomer. I've had cars that rev to 15,000rpm. Others than rev'd to 9,000. They are hard work for 99% of the time. When you get 300bhp+ without having to screw the engine above 7k, why is that automatically a bad thing? Ok, that 1% of use when you are on a moorland road, and you want to keep the engine above 7k, to max the power and feel like a racedriver....great. But most of the time, having most of the engines power permanently on top is a good thing. Engine flexibility is a huge plus.....and the narrow power band is another misnomer as well. Most decent cars have a power band of c2000-2500 rpm. Whether than is 2000-4500 or 4000 to 6500, the band is the same size.
....and fuel stinks of any variety, and with the crap pumps than stations use, petrol is equally likely to spill.
Diesels do sound like s
t. A decent 6cyl oil burner sounds better than most 3/4-cyl petrol, but like for like, it is a major downside....but the only real downside. revs are a misnomer. I've had cars that rev to 15,000rpm. Others than rev'd to 9,000. They are hard work for 99% of the time. When you get 300bhp+ without having to screw the engine above 7k, why is that automatically a bad thing? Ok, that 1% of use when you are on a moorland road, and you want to keep the engine above 7k, to max the power and feel like a racedriver....great. But most of the time, having most of the engines power permanently on top is a good thing. Engine flexibility is a huge plus.....and the narrow power band is another misnomer as well. Most decent cars have a power band of c2000-2500 rpm. Whether than is 2000-4500 or 4000 to 6500, the band is the same size.....and fuel stinks of any variety, and with the crap pumps than stations use, petrol is equally likely to spill.
yes, but Jesus how touchy can you be about what someone says about a car..it's not like you walked in on them cupping your dogs nuts?My (apparently) 'piece of crap diesel' Volvo was way nicer sounding than the 'stock' VAG/BM alternative. I would never go for a 4 cylinder diesel if I could afford not to, at least a 5/6/8 cylinder has something about it. When you are not in the mood something highly strung is a pain, I prefer larger engines and more torque nowadays but previously was devoted to high revving NA stuff. What I was trying to say, but didn't properly explain was that the power on modern diesels is still a bit short lived, it's hugely full of torque but doesn't make you want to drive it. I borrowed a 350 diesel mercedes and it was like going back 20 years, huge delay in the power. I have heard good things about the new 123d from a friend and of course they're are always exceptions. The petrol engine is still the benchmark for refinement, fun and power. The best diesel engine I ever used was in a VW Caddy. It took monumental amounts of abuse for many miles, had no turbo or other crap to choke it up, sounded like a pair of knackers in full armor going at it and always did 50mpg...in clouds of smoke
Ares said:
PS - what was the 1200mile/25mpg car?
E90 M3On the short-lived power, its a misnomer as mentioned, but in any regard, with any decent diesel now mated to a ZF-8pd Auto box, power is seemless and relentless until WELL past legal limits.
matsoc said:
Buying petrol or diesel to cover the same motorway distance in a Audi A6 petrol and diesel V6 is the same thing that paying more for a business class air ticket on the same plane and route because the color of the seat is different...
Whether it's worth it depends on the car, the person and the circumstances.I am very happy with my A6 V8 petrol over the diesel (which I'm sure is also very good). At a fixed 70mph on the motorway there is probably little noticeable difference and yes it costs me more but only 10-15% more and it's more than worth it (to me).
On the other hand I tried a Jeep commander 3.0 CRD (which was superb) and 5.7 Hemi back to back, the petrol was definitely nicer (and I bought it) but 18 vs 30mpg was not worth it as it turned out, I should have bought the diesel.
Commuting 21 miles motorway each way, each day.
Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
Edited by uk_vette on Wednesday 2nd September 18:40
uk_vette said:
Commuting 21 miles motorway each way, each day.
Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
In answer to your question, I've helped you out a bit... Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
Edited by uk_vette on Wednesday 2nd September 18:40
I also find diesels horrible, but to be frank, modern 4-pot turbocharged petrols are not much better. Similar power delivery, sound coarse and feel a bit unrefined at low revs.
Whenever (hopefully never, but that's wishful thinking I fear) my old-school v6 and v8 get banned off the road, I will go straight to hybrid or full electric.
Edit: As for buying an expensive diesel car, it certainly feels like putting on rubber boots with a tuxedo.
Whenever (hopefully never, but that's wishful thinking I fear) my old-school v6 and v8 get banned off the road, I will go straight to hybrid or full electric.
Edit: As for buying an expensive diesel car, it certainly feels like putting on rubber boots with a tuxedo.
Edited by optimal909 on Wednesday 2nd September 20:16
I just did.
Would have preferred petrol but the diesel was the best price. Compared to previous petrol cars it is more refined most of the time and it is the first car I have owned that has seen mpg over 30 (it was 42.8 today). The only time I will regret it will be when filling up as it is dirty.
My pistonhead membership may be at risk as I have gone, V8 supercharged to V6 turbo to 4 pot twin turbo diesel.........or I am getting old!
Would have preferred petrol but the diesel was the best price. Compared to previous petrol cars it is more refined most of the time and it is the first car I have owned that has seen mpg over 30 (it was 42.8 today). The only time I will regret it will be when filling up as it is dirty.
My pistonhead membership may be at risk as I have gone, V8 supercharged to V6 turbo to 4 pot twin turbo diesel.........or I am getting old!
I think that the case for the cheap diesel car has been made pretty convincingly on economic grounds, but whether cheap is a £30k BMW 320d or a £1k Focus Mk1 is a matter of man maths. I can't see any reason to buy an expensive or highly optioned version of any diesel though as the savings and therefore the gap between petrol reduce.
BTW I have been in a very nice diesel S class, but I don't think that destroys my argument as it was the basic 320CDI.
BTW I have been in a very nice diesel S class, but I don't think that destroys my argument as it was the basic 320CDI.
uk_vette said:
Commuting 21 miles motorway each way, each day.
Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
I'm with you on this.Regular trips from Cheshire to brothers, 125 miles (M6 & M1)
sees my current 180,000 mile Diesel Vectra 150 CDTi (6 speed manual 1,9L)
Getting a very good 60,5 mpg
Brim to brim
Regular over 700 miles to the tank.
Whats not to like ?
Edited by uk_vette on Wednesday 2nd September 18:40
Iv'e just returned from a holiday in the USA. Because fuel is so cheap there ($2.29 a US gallon in Tucson AZ) I always rent a full size SUV. This years rental was a Chevy Tahoe. 5.3 V8. Beautiful car to drive, quick, silent and smooth but a bit boring and 20 mpg isn't good in any market.
However when I got into my 8 year old, 100,000 + mile diesel Vauxhall Vectra at the airport yesterday I felt smug as it accelerated up the slip road to motorway speeds effortlessly and was returning 55 mpg.
My next car will be a Jag XF. It will be a diesel. My choice. I prefer diesel.
GetCarter said:
9mm said:
So if it's not the mpg it's the CO2 or the resale value. In any event, the answer to the question appears to be the same - save money somewhere. I guess the question could be simplified to 'why do people buy diesels'. Not surprising, as I've yet to meeet a diesel owner who has been able to resist telling me what mpg they get from their car.
You're not reading the whole thread. It's not the MPG, it's the range. (I drive both petrol and diesel). 40 mile round trip to the nearest fuel.I couldn't really see the problem in the first case as an obviously regular driver would be passing numerous petrol stations and filling any car rarely takes more than five minutes.
In the second case, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to drive for more than three hours without a break.
Your situation does sound highly unusual. Even with the reduction in the number of petrol stations I've never lived more than 10 minutes from one and there are always some on my route.
Edited by 9mm on Thursday 3rd September 07:23
I use an old, crappy diesel for work purely due to the mileage I cover, so it makes financial sense to my personal situation.
If I could afford a 50K+ car would it be diesel? Probably not, I would more than likely be a 20-25k petrol, and some of the savings would be offset on increased fuel use.
At the end of the day people buy what they want regardless of if it is 'right' or 'wrong' for them. They earn the money so they have the right to spend it on the car of their choice, regardless of whether or not a group of car fanatics on a forum think it is a good idea.
If I could afford a 50K+ car would it be diesel? Probably not, I would more than likely be a 20-25k petrol, and some of the savings would be offset on increased fuel use.
At the end of the day people buy what they want regardless of if it is 'right' or 'wrong' for them. They earn the money so they have the right to spend it on the car of their choice, regardless of whether or not a group of car fanatics on a forum think it is a good idea.
JonoG81 said:
I use an old, crappy diesel for work purely due to the mileage I cover, so it makes financial sense to my personal situation.
If I could afford a 50K+ car would it be diesel? Probably not, I would more than likely be a 20-25k petrol, and some of the savings would be offset on increased fuel use.
At the end of the day people buy what they want regardless of if it is 'right' or 'wrong' for them. They earn the money so they have the right to spend it on the car of their choice, regardless of whether or not a group of car fanatics on a forum think it is a good idea.
But is a £20/25k petrol really going to be that inspiring compared to a £50k+ diesel? Unless you go a fair bit older....in which case you end up sacrificing 3/4/5 years assured trouble free, luxury motoring for higher costs and the risk of big(ger) bills/reliability.If I could afford a 50K+ car would it be diesel? Probably not, I would more than likely be a 20-25k petrol, and some of the savings would be offset on increased fuel use.
At the end of the day people buy what they want regardless of if it is 'right' or 'wrong' for them. They earn the money so they have the right to spend it on the car of their choice, regardless of whether or not a group of car fanatics on a forum think it is a good idea.
The reason I buy new is a) the deals are too good to be true compared to 12/18mth old version, but also b) that I get a minimum of 3 yrs trouble free, zero cost (AC Schnitzer aside
) motoring in a car that is a beautiful place to sit in (usually in traffic).9mm said:
I did read a couple of posts about having to fill up every three days or not at all in 800 miles.
I couldn't really see the problem in the first case as an obviously regular driver would be passing numerous petrol stations and filling any car rarely takes more than five minutes.
In the second case, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to drive for more than three hours without a break.
Your situation does sound highly unusual. Even with the reduction in the number of petrol stations I've never lived more than 10 minutes from one and there are always some on my route.
You are replying in the context of "is it difficult if you have to refuel more often?". The answer (for anyone not living 50 miles from a petrol station) is no - we live in the countryside but there are four petrol stations within 5 miles. But I hate wasting time doing dull things - and filling the car up is one of them - so others think more along the lines of "filling up is dull - how can I reduce having to do it?", which produces a different answerI couldn't really see the problem in the first case as an obviously regular driver would be passing numerous petrol stations and filling any car rarely takes more than five minutes.
In the second case, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to drive for more than three hours without a break.
Your situation does sound highly unusual. Even with the reduction in the number of petrol stations I've never lived more than 10 minutes from one and there are always some on my route.
Edited by 9mm on Thursday 3rd September 07:23
Edited to add - I do a 320-mile round trip in a day once a month - in the Subaru 3.0 I more or less needed to fill up just as I set off and then fill again just before getting home (or immediately the day after). With a 450- mile range I don't need to...
Edited by oop north on Thursday 3rd September 08:48
oop north said:
9mm said:
I did read a couple of posts about having to fill up every three days or not at all in 800 miles.
I couldn't really see the problem in the first case as an obviously regular driver would be passing numerous petrol stations and filling any car rarely takes more than five minutes.
In the second case, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to drive for more than three hours without a break.
Your situation does sound highly unusual. Even with the reduction in the number of petrol stations I've never lived more than 10 minutes from one and there are always some on my route.
You are replying in the context of "is it difficult if you have to refuel more often?". The answer (for anyone not living 50 miles from a petrol station) is no - we live in the countryside but there are four petrol stations within 5 miles. But I hate wasting time doing dull things - and filling the car up is one of them - so others think more along the lines of "filling up is dull - how can I reduce having to do it?", which produces a different answerI couldn't really see the problem in the first case as an obviously regular driver would be passing numerous petrol stations and filling any car rarely takes more than five minutes.
In the second case, I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to drive for more than three hours without a break.
Your situation does sound highly unusual. Even with the reduction in the number of petrol stations I've never lived more than 10 minutes from one and there are always some on my route.
Edited by 9mm on Thursday 3rd September 07:23
Edited to add - I do a 320-mile round trip in a day once a month - in the Subaru 3.0 I more or less needed to fill up just as I set off and then fill again just before getting home (or immediately the day after). With a 450- mile range I don't need to...
Edited by oop north on Thursday 3rd September 08:48
Seriously, the frequency of going to a petrol station really bothers you?
beanbag said:
Anyway, choosing a diesel is simple:
If you commute more than 20 miles a day each way, and like to save a bit of cash and want something reasonably quick, buy a good diesel.
If you commute less than 20 miles a day, or tend to do shorter more sporadic trips, get a petrol.
)
Diesels work for shorter commutes, too if you remember to clear out the DPF with a longer drive every few weeks. If you commute more than 20 miles a day each way, and like to save a bit of cash and want something reasonably quick, buy a good diesel.
If you commute less than 20 miles a day, or tend to do shorter more sporadic trips, get a petrol.
)
I've only driven petrols until my latest Merc. For daily motoring, I'm not sure I'd go back. The massive low end torque (with half decent power band) makes it perfect for overtaking on B roads and the economy means I can cruise at 170 km/h without worrying about fuel. The latter being the reason why nearly everyone in DE drives a diesel.
9mm said:
Seriously, the frequency of going to a petrol station really bothers you?
Without presuming to answer for someone else, it bothered me.I was getting 16mpg in my V8, and I was filling up about once every 5-7 days. For 8 years.
Now I fill up about once every month if not longer, have a car with more BHP, and more torque. Granted, it isn't a mustang V8 engine and I miss the noise, but I don't miss the petrol station trips.
Ares said:
But is a £20/25k petrol really going to be that inspiring compared to a £50k+ diesel?
What a dull life you lead if you can't think of a nice petrol engine to drive for around 25k 
None of these are that old, lots have manufacturer warranty too when you buy approved. I've gone from truly desireable to pretty sensible - and all with a nice big multi-cylinder mill under the bonnet. Go ahead and look at them all, it's an eclectic mix so there's plenty of choice!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Infinity FX50
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Camaro 6.2 V8
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - S5
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Z4 S-Drive M-Sport
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Tasty M135i
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - C350 AMG
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Skoda Superb V6
Edited by hornetrider on Thursday 3rd September 10:40
hornetrider said:
Ares said:
But is a £20/25k petrol really going to be that inspiring compared to a £50k+ diesel?
What a dull life you lead if you can't think of a nice petrol engine to drive for around 25k. None of these are that old, lots have manufacturer warranty too when you buy approved. I've gone from truly desireable to pretty sensible - and all with a nice big multi-cylinder mill under the bonnet. Go ahead and look at them all, it's an eclectic mix so there's plenty of choice!http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Infinity FX50
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Camaro 6.2 V8
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - S5
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Z4 S-Drive M-Sport
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Tasty M135i
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - C350 AMG
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... - Skoda Superb V6
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