Treating and removing rust, do I need this stuff?
Discussion
Two years ago when my wife's MG ZS which we've had since new since 2003 had an under car corrosion issue, my friendly MoT tester called me over and showed me the bare metal with light surface corrosion on what he described as the "out riggers".
Appears stone chips thrown up by the front wheels over the years have "machined" away the paint and protective coating.
I used a flap wheel in an angle grinder to get the corrosion off and down to bright metal. Did not take long. Then sprayed some Zinc 182 and when that had dried, a couple of thick coats of a good underseal applied with a wide brush. Two years on still in good shape.
Here's the thread I put up at the time over on MG-Rover.org. It has lots of illustrations showing what work was involved and materials used.
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=540938...
Post #1 has the most illustrations.
For corroded components which can be removed from the car, I have used DEOX. Provided loose surface corrosion is brushed off, DEOX will often have bare metal components coming up surprisingly well. Like new in fact but not always but still good. Bought my DEOX about four years ago and still have half a tub of the powder left. You can collect the used water with DEOX added and store it for reuse. Still works well even months later.
Appears stone chips thrown up by the front wheels over the years have "machined" away the paint and protective coating.
I used a flap wheel in an angle grinder to get the corrosion off and down to bright metal. Did not take long. Then sprayed some Zinc 182 and when that had dried, a couple of thick coats of a good underseal applied with a wide brush. Two years on still in good shape.
Here's the thread I put up at the time over on MG-Rover.org. It has lots of illustrations showing what work was involved and materials used.
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=540938...
Post #1 has the most illustrations.
For corroded components which can be removed from the car, I have used DEOX. Provided loose surface corrosion is brushed off, DEOX will often have bare metal components coming up surprisingly well. Like new in fact but not always but still good. Bought my DEOX about four years ago and still have half a tub of the powder left. You can collect the used water with DEOX added and store it for reuse. Still works well even months later.
TroubledSoul said:
I take it using the Hammerite paint over the Electrox primer will be fine though? I wanted to use the clear waxoil stuff as I'm a bit reluctant to cake it all in thick, sticky black underseal but it sounds like I may have to suck it up on that score.
If you don't want a dark wax, use Bilt Hamber Dynax UC.http://www.bilthamber.com/dynax-uc
Wow! That's great.
I might just be being silly trying to avoid a black underseal to be honest. The rest of the car is covered in it!!
I would quite like to remove it all, properly treat everything and then recover though. So clear would be the preference but maybe I should just bite the bullet and use something black.
I still don't know which product to buy though!
I might just be being silly trying to avoid a black underseal to be honest. The rest of the car is covered in it!!
I would quite like to remove it all, properly treat everything and then recover though. So clear would be the preference but maybe I should just bite the bullet and use something black.
I still don't know which product to buy though!
TroubledSoul said:
Cheers, can't see most of your pics though, so not sure if there's a pic of the underseal you used?
After cleaning up all the surface corroded areas with the flap wheel in the angle grinder, I applied two coats of this as a protecting base allowed it to dry thoroughly as recommended on the tin:~
Then using a wide brush, applied some of this Black Underseal. Again following up with a second coat once the first had dried completely. Any Black Underbody sealant will be suitable. My son buys spray cans of the stuff but I prefer the better control of the Paintbrush.
Being on the underside of the car, I'm more concerned with protective qualities rather than cosmetics. However, my local Auto-Paint Suppliers can make up a good match spray can of just about any car paint colour provided they have the correct code so can match it. When the underseal has dried off, it can be painted. No point on the underside of the car. This is what the applied black underseal looks like.
Back in the 1960-70-80s, when cars did not always have adequate anti-corrosion qualities built in at manufacture, every new car I bought I paid extra to have the full "Underseal Treatment" treatment including injection of closed sections. Money well spent as those car all lasted well over ten years before showing signs of corrosion. Some closed on twenty years before they started to really suffer corrosion issues. All those cars, both private and company new car purchases were BMC, BL, Austin-Rover-Group and Rover Group cars. The last new car I bought which I did not pay extra for underseal, a 1990 Montego, came with a six year corrosion warranty. It did start to suffer badly until about thirteen years later. New cars bought since then like the MG ZS I treated here, have excellent anti-corrosion protection built in at manufacture. The surface corrosion on this MG ZS's out riggers mainly caused by stone chips thrown up by front wheels or just as likely, those locations used to raise the car on a two post lift when being serviced etc. Once the protective coating is damaged by stones or the lift, mother nature immediately goes about reclaiming her elements and corrosion spreads...
TroubledSoul said:
Wow! That's great.
I might just be being silly trying to avoid a black underseal to be honest. The rest of the car is covered in it!!
I would quite like to remove it all, properly treat everything and then recover though. So clear would be the preference but maybe I should just bite the bullet and use something black.
I still don't know which product to buy though!
If required, you can still spray over the Underseal when dry ... in places like wheel arches where such repair maintenance is often visible.I might just be being silly trying to avoid a black underseal to be honest. The rest of the car is covered in it!!
I would quite like to remove it all, properly treat everything and then recover though. So clear would be the preference but maybe I should just bite the bullet and use something black.
I still don't know which product to buy though!
I have used Bilt Hamber ( In DEOX Powder Form ) and obtained even more impressive results than those shown on the thread here. It's not cheap, but the pack I bought has lasted years for my DIY tasks. As well as car parts, old Tools, Knives etc often come up like new ... Good stuff.
I had to tidy up the jacking points on my E36 a couple of months ago, wish I hadn't now as after i had ground off the rust on the NSR jacking point there wasn't much metal left.... but that's another (ongoing) story.
After grinding off as much rust as possible I used several coats of some Jenolite (Phosphoric acid) that I'd had in the garage for years. Then brushed on 2 coats of Hammerite 'red oxide' primer (red zinc phosphate basically) and finally brushed on several coats of the Waxoyl underseal.
The Waxoyl underseal is s
t, I inspected my work a month later and patches of it had disappeared already. I'll be using stone chip / shultz if i ever do it again.
After grinding off as much rust as possible I used several coats of some Jenolite (Phosphoric acid) that I'd had in the garage for years. Then brushed on 2 coats of Hammerite 'red oxide' primer (red zinc phosphate basically) and finally brushed on several coats of the Waxoyl underseal.
The Waxoyl underseal is s
t, I inspected my work a month later and patches of it had disappeared already. I'll be using stone chip / shultz if i ever do it again.Edited by eztiger328 on Tuesday 8th September 14:47
Edited by eztiger328 on Tuesday 8th September 14:48
Are these underseals any good?
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74042-valvoline-tectyl...
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74039-valvoline-tectyl...
No longer bothered about having to use a black underseal. I just want it protected; for good.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74042-valvoline-tectyl...
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74039-valvoline-tectyl...
No longer bothered about having to use a black underseal. I just want it protected; for good.
http://www.aquasteel.co.uk
As mentioned above, converts the rust into a protective layer and shouldn't need touched again.
Not much is needed, it really goes a long way.
As mentioned above, converts the rust into a protective layer and shouldn't need touched again.
Not much is needed, it really goes a long way.
SuperHangOn said:
I'm not a fan of waxes. Its not hard to imagine moisture getting trapped behind once it starts to dry out.
POR15 is brilliant, follow the prep properly and that stuff it's not coming off in a hurry.
Yeah but isn't that something you'd use instead of Electrox? I have the Electrox now.POR15 is brilliant, follow the prep properly and that stuff it's not coming off in a hurry.
If you can't get all the rust off mechanically, you can try a rust remover but in my experience only very superficial rust will be removed unless you enjoy the luxury of being able to dunk the object in the remover.
Failing which, or alternatively, use a rust converter. Completely different to a rust remover as opposed to what has been suggested earlier. Slosh it on, let it dry, then you can either undercoat and underseal or just underseal (or wax) directly but I would undercoat first as the pointy bits of the rusty areas don't tend to hold any thickness of underseal at all, so the paint seals too.
If you don't convert (or remove) the rust, eventually your underseal will lift, starting from the areas where it is thinnest and/or rust will start to spot through it.
Failing which, or alternatively, use a rust converter. Completely different to a rust remover as opposed to what has been suggested earlier. Slosh it on, let it dry, then you can either undercoat and underseal or just underseal (or wax) directly but I would undercoat first as the pointy bits of the rusty areas don't tend to hold any thickness of underseal at all, so the paint seals too.
If you don't convert (or remove) the rust, eventually your underseal will lift, starting from the areas where it is thinnest and/or rust will start to spot through it.
Well I've got the wire cup brushes for the grinder now 
So really just need to know which underseal to use. I'll probably choose from one of the two TACTYL and TACTYL 190 underseals as I can buy them from Opie with something else I need. I'm just that little bit sceptical about how effective a wax/bitumen solution that can be applied from an aersol really is?
So really just need to know which underseal to use. I'll probably choose from one of the two TACTYL and TACTYL 190 underseals as I can buy them from Opie with something else I need. I'm just that little bit sceptical about how effective a wax/bitumen solution that can be applied from an aersol really is?
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