Who's At Fault Here? - Car Vs Cyclist (Video)
Discussion
walm said:
Pete317 said:
'At fault' means different things to different people or viewpoints, and, to most of us, it doesn't necessarily imply liability - legal or otherwise.
I think we just hit peak denial.LoonR1 loves a fight, but I'm with Pete. If I was that cyclist, it's my fault. Same as if you walk into a lampost because you're not watching where your going, it's your fault. If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car. Whether the car is liable or not is a different point.
TheBALDpuma said:
No I think he's spot on.
LoonR1 loves a fight, but I'm with Pete. If I was that cyclist, it's my fault. Same as if you walk into a lampost because you're not watching where your going, it's your fault. If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car. Whether the car is liable or not is a different point.
I don't "love a fight" I just may have a different opinion to you, which is grounded in a lot of experience. LoonR1 loves a fight, but I'm with Pete. If I was that cyclist, it's my fault. Same as if you walk into a lampost because you're not watching where your going, it's your fault. If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car. Whether the car is liable or not is a different point.
When was the last time you saw a lamppost trying to get off its drive and onto a road btw?
TheBALDpuma said:
If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car.
I think this is where most of the contention lies.On a bike going 10-15mph, 2 seconds isn't enough time to react and stop over just two car lengths, even if you were covering the brakes, which he wasn't.
Johnnytheboy said:
LoonR1 said:
I don't "love a fight"
Next you'll be claiming not to be an authority on insurance matters!
walm said:
TheBALDpuma said:
If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car.
I think this is where most of the contention lies.On a bike going 10-15mph, 2 seconds isn't enough time to react and stop over just two car lengths, even if you were covering the brakes, which he wasn't.
TheBALDpuma said:
walm said:
TheBALDpuma said:
If the cyclist was paying attention, he would not have hit the car.
I think this is where most of the contention lies.On a bike going 10-15mph, 2 seconds isn't enough time to react and stop over just two car lengths, even if you were covering the brakes, which he wasn't.
Granfondo said:
roofer said:
To be honest, yes, I hate cyclists, but the fat fella in the vid could have avoided that, I know it.....and so do you.
So he wanted to wreck his bike and go arse over tit onto the Tarmac in shorts and t-shirt ?And as someone has said previously, I think the van driver was an ignoramus also.
LoonR1 said:
Absolutely, nothing worse than someone not paying attention 100% of the time when you're about to do something quite ignorant.
This is why I said you love a fight - you flat out simply refuse to see grey. It's black or white and you will argue till you're blue in the face.The cyclist wasn't just not paying 100% attention, maybe 50% on the road and 50% on his phone (generous I'd say!). So are you saying that as a road user it's okay to be occupied by other activities while travelling, like using a phone, puttin on make up etc?
At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions. I think the car pulled out fairly carefully, but will concede that he could have taken even more care but the cyclist in my opinion has to hold up his hands and say that he caused himself to crash due to his lack of attention. The car saw the cyclist, and stopped significantly before the cyclist took avoiding action.
roofer said:
Granfondo said:
roofer said:
To be honest, yes, I hate cyclists, but the fat fella in the vid could have avoided that, I know it.....and so do you.
So he wanted to wreck his bike and go arse over tit onto the Tarmac in shorts and t-shirt ?And as someone has said previously, I think the van driver was an ignoramus also.
TheBALDpuma said:
I disagree. I think he had plenty of time to stop. Had he been paying attention with his hands on the handlebars.
Are you a cyclist?Did you see my post earlier post saying how it would be very unlikely they could stop in time?
The cyclist had one hand on the bars and in the position of the picture below. They had less than 2 seconds to move their hand, pull the brake, slow down and stop. The fall might not have been as bad, but there would have been a fall regardless.
http://www.roadbikerider.com/sites/default/files/a...
TheBALDpuma said:
This is why I said you love a fight - you flat out simply refuse to see grey. It's black or white and you will argue till you're blue in the face.
The cyclist wasn't just not paying 100% attention, maybe 50% on the road and 50% on his phone (generous I'd say!). So are you saying that as a road user it's okay to be occupied by other activities while travelling, like using a phone, puttin on make up etc?
At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions. I think the car pulled out fairly carefully, but will concede that he could have taken even more care but the cyclist in my opinion has to hold up his hands and say that he caused himself to crash due to his lack of attention. The car saw the cyclist, and stopped significantly before the cyclist took avoiding action.
No I'm not, but I'm also not saying that it's OK to pull out onto a road and collide with an established roaduser. The cyclist wasn't just not paying 100% attention, maybe 50% on the road and 50% on his phone (generous I'd say!). So are you saying that as a road user it's okay to be occupied by other activities while travelling, like using a phone, puttin on make up etc?
At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions. I think the car pulled out fairly carefully, but will concede that he could have taken even more care but the cyclist in my opinion has to hold up his hands and say that he caused himself to crash due to his lack of attention. The car saw the cyclist, and stopped significantly before the cyclist took avoiding action.
The point is that fault is fault. There is no law to say that I must pay attention 100% of the time to compensate for someone else's negligence. There is a law around negligence and negligence defines liability (or fault, as it's the same meaning). You are hiding behind moral obligations amd dressing them up as if they mean something. You are also defying the moral element by your own standards.
Let's take a few other examples. Some more extreme than others.
1. A driver is driving along a motorway when someone hurls a brick off a motorway bridge, this hits his car and he crashes. Is he at fault for not paying attention to the clearly visible group on the motorway bridge?
2. He crashes into two cars to the left of him. Are they at fault for not seeing the group amd predicting that he wouldn't see them and then swerve into him?
3. One of the cars is uninsured. Are they at fault for being there despite being illegally on the road?
4. A car is waiting at a Give Way junction about 300 yards in front of me to the left. I am on the main road, it is exiting from a small avenue. My road is a 50mph limit and flowing freely at that speed, but it is busy amd I have a line of cars behind amd in front of me that are safely spaced. Should I drop my speed to a crawl just in case he sets off in front of me?
Retroman said:
TheBALDpuma said:
I disagree. I think he had plenty of time to stop. Had he been paying attention with his hands on the handlebars.
Are you a cyclist?Did you see my post earlier post saying how it would be very unlikely they could stop in time?
The cyclist had one hand on the bars and in the position of the picture below. They had less than 2 seconds to move their hand, pull the brake, slow down and stop. The fall might not have been as bad, but there would have been a fall regardless.
http://www.roadbikerider.com/sites/default/files/a...
Having one hand on the bars is not an excuse! That's like saying it's not my fault I hit the car in front, I was on the phone on cruise control with my legs cross so I didn't notice couldn't brake in time
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