Police response vehicles without Sirens, non response with
Discussion
Read this article yesterday about Police cars with no sirens.
They should have been specced from the start in the procurement process for any liveried vehicle but you can get lights and sirens on ebay for less than £30 which is hardly a deal breaker and not worth risking lives over.
[quote]
Police cars without sirens are 'risking lives', say officers
Police in the West Midlands are unable to drive quickly to some crimes because they have been provided with cars with no sirens
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...
[/quote]
Then saw this headline today and was fuming.
[quote]
Seven police forces in England have given company cars with blue lights and sirens to civilian staff not trained to use them, the BBC has learned.
Finance, HR and IT directors were among nine senior staff given vehicles.
One tax expert said the recipients could save thousands of pounds each year as emergency vehicles are treated differently by HM Revenue and Customs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34142499
[/quote]
This could easily be resolved by jailing those who are running around in emergency vehicles they aren't entitled to for either tax evasion or impersonating a Police officer and then sending the cars up north to officers that actually need them.
They should have been specced from the start in the procurement process for any liveried vehicle but you can get lights and sirens on ebay for less than £30 which is hardly a deal breaker and not worth risking lives over.
[quote]
Police cars without sirens are 'risking lives', say officers
Police in the West Midlands are unable to drive quickly to some crimes because they have been provided with cars with no sirens
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...
[/quote]
Then saw this headline today and was fuming.
[quote]
Seven police forces in England have given company cars with blue lights and sirens to civilian staff not trained to use them, the BBC has learned.
Finance, HR and IT directors were among nine senior staff given vehicles.
One tax expert said the recipients could save thousands of pounds each year as emergency vehicles are treated differently by HM Revenue and Customs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34142499
[/quote]
This could easily be resolved by jailing those who are running around in emergency vehicles they aren't entitled to for either tax evasion or impersonating a Police officer and then sending the cars up north to officers that actually need them.
What a non story.
Firstly most forces have vehicles for neighbourhood teams without sirens. Hampshire certainly have Fiesta's that are issued to the local neighbourhood team.
These do not have sirens as they are not used for response work. But obviously if an urgent call came in and you were nearest, you would still go.... At the speed limit.
As for non response trained drivers using response vehicles, this also happens a lot. Special Constables are not trained to respond, neither are PCSO's, Staff vehicle technicians, Speed camera operators etc. All these staff sometimes have to use a response vehicle. It is also cheaper for the tax payer if a police vehicle is used instead of using your own vehicle then claiming the mileage.
If I have to go to a meeting in the North of the county, I am encouraged to book out a police owned vehicle rather than using my own as it is cheaper than claiming back the mileage.
Firstly most forces have vehicles for neighbourhood teams without sirens. Hampshire certainly have Fiesta's that are issued to the local neighbourhood team.
These do not have sirens as they are not used for response work. But obviously if an urgent call came in and you were nearest, you would still go.... At the speed limit.
As for non response trained drivers using response vehicles, this also happens a lot. Special Constables are not trained to respond, neither are PCSO's, Staff vehicle technicians, Speed camera operators etc. All these staff sometimes have to use a response vehicle. It is also cheaper for the tax payer if a police vehicle is used instead of using your own vehicle then claiming the mileage.
If I have to go to a meeting in the North of the county, I am encouraged to book out a police owned vehicle rather than using my own as it is cheaper than claiming back the mileage.
Edited by HantsRat on Friday 4th September 10:04
Well as we all know up here our esteemed CC has finally agreed to go, but the damage he has done is all too apparent in the Traffic Department as they can't afford new vehicles or even uniforms.
Still, at least those guys are guaranteed to be advanced.
By the way, doesn't need a siren: it's got a bell on the front bumper!
J
Still, at least those guys are guaranteed to be advanced.
By the way, doesn't need a siren: it's got a bell on the front bumper!
J
The issue is that the neighbourhood officers are filling the gap in the hugely cut response teams. They are expected to meet the response times and get there asap but not being given the tools to do so.
The bobbies want to get there sooner but cant but still get a load if s
t for failed response times. So if you have someone breaking in then the old bill might arrive a bit later by being forced into sticking at the limit and being sat in traffic.
The bobbies want to get there sooner but cant but still get a load if s
t for failed response times. So if you have someone breaking in then the old bill might arrive a bit later by being forced into sticking at the limit and being sat in traffic. 
I honestly can't understand why they don't just spec up a siren.
It's not THAT long ago (ok, maybe about 15 years) that virtually all the panda cars round my way were Fiestas, they were fully kitted out with blues and twos and would race off to local incidents.
Since Focus/Mondeo "panda" cars became the norm it seems that the Fiesta is suddenly incapable of having sirens and should just tootle about at the speed limit?
It's not THAT long ago (ok, maybe about 15 years) that virtually all the panda cars round my way were Fiestas, they were fully kitted out with blues and twos and would race off to local incidents.
Since Focus/Mondeo "panda" cars became the norm it seems that the Fiesta is suddenly incapable of having sirens and should just tootle about at the speed limit?
I started driving Police vehicles in the mid 70’s – Escorts fitted with blue lights, stop signs etc. There was no such thing as graded jobs back then - we used our own savvy when deciding how quickly to get there.
We eventually moved on to Fiestas etc but they were never fitted with two tones / sirens – still only area and traffic cars – crewed by advanced drivers
Area cars would be assigned to 999 calls and were the only divisional cars fitted with two tones.
As the years went by and jobs were graded – and in the case of immediates only response trained drivers with the properly equipped cars would be assigned.
A non response driver WONT be failed on, and certainly shouldn’t be criticised in relation to attendance times for a response job – this would be a control room target failed and wouldn’t be a criticism of the individual officer.
Its not the lack of cars that’s generally the problem – it’s the lack of suitably trained drivers. Remember - a lot of them have only had an assessment drive and no formal training in order to go out in these Corsas – do you really want them blatting around on blues and twos Without the training?
They can use response cars to travel from a to b in but NOT to respond at speed to response jobs.
The original article outlines 100 calls responded to over a year by non response cars – two a week!
Just more scaremongering by the Police federation I feel.
We eventually moved on to Fiestas etc but they were never fitted with two tones / sirens – still only area and traffic cars – crewed by advanced drivers
Area cars would be assigned to 999 calls and were the only divisional cars fitted with two tones.
As the years went by and jobs were graded – and in the case of immediates only response trained drivers with the properly equipped cars would be assigned.
A non response driver WONT be failed on, and certainly shouldn’t be criticised in relation to attendance times for a response job – this would be a control room target failed and wouldn’t be a criticism of the individual officer.
Its not the lack of cars that’s generally the problem – it’s the lack of suitably trained drivers. Remember - a lot of them have only had an assessment drive and no formal training in order to go out in these Corsas – do you really want them blatting around on blues and twos Without the training?
They can use response cars to travel from a to b in but NOT to respond at speed to response jobs.
The original article outlines 100 calls responded to over a year by non response cars – two a week!
Just more scaremongering by the Police federation I feel.
red_slr said:
And what about the IT / HR civ staff looning around in their unmarked kitted up 5 series....
If they need to travel a lot for work, it would still work out a lot cheaper providing them with a car for business travel than using their own and claiming mileage. A lot of police cars used just for transport purposes are old high mileage response cars/driver training vehicles. Cars are used for lots of different roles. It's sometimes easier & cheaper to leave the lights/sirens in place. It doesn't mean the IT/HR staff are blue lighting to their next meeting or as you put... 'looning around'. As much as the Daily Mail would love you to believe. Edited by HantsRat on Friday 4th September 11:23
Heh.
Its the fact they get a take home car that p*sses me off.
The dog unit lost their vans 5 years ago, tell me who has more need for a take home vehicle... dog unit or HR manager?
And yes I know they generally behave given the traffic lads are probably just waiting with anticipation for the POLAC shout...
Its the fact they get a take home car that p*sses me off.
The dog unit lost their vans 5 years ago, tell me who has more need for a take home vehicle... dog unit or HR manager?
And yes I know they generally behave given the traffic lads are probably just waiting with anticipation for the POLAC shout...
red_slr said:
Its the fact they get a take home car that p*sses me off.
Why does it piss you off? There are many injustices in the world that ought to piss you off a lot more than someone having a company car. I'll let you into a little secret. A very large proportion of those newish cars you see on the roads are either company cars or paid for out of a company car allowance. If you don't have one but wish you did, then perhaps it's time to look for another job.I imagine that the police force ordered a fleet of cars which being of above average power/ability would have been supplied with the lights and sirens already fitted. If the police force then have to supply a staff member with a company car and it's cheaper for them to do so out of one of their existing fleet or cars, then why would you begrudge them that? If it means the police force then have more money to spend on other things like paying officers, then I'm all for it.
If those civvy company car drivers misuse the lights or sirens, then that's another matter altogether.
Sushifiend said:
Why does it piss you off? There are many injustices in the world that ought to piss you off a lot more than someone having a company car. I'll let you into a little secret. A very large proportion of those newish cars you see on the roads are either company cars or paid for out of a company car allowance. If you don't have one but wish you did, then perhaps it's time to look for another job.
I imagine that the police force ordered a fleet of cars which being of above average power/ability would have been supplied with the lights and sirens already fitted. If the police force then have to supply a staff member with a company car and it's cheaper for them to do so out of one of their existing fleet or cars, then why would you begrudge them that? If it means the police force then have more money to spend on other things like paying officers, then I'm all for it.
If those civvy company car drivers misuse the lights or sirens, then that's another matter altogether.
There is no reason, none, for the head of Finance or HR to have a car fitted with lights and sirens. They are not part of any working fleet and have never been made available to use in times of need (Discoverys/freelanders during inclement weather for example).Serving Officers were scathing when it the facts came out and my Force quietly removed the vehicles.I imagine that the police force ordered a fleet of cars which being of above average power/ability would have been supplied with the lights and sirens already fitted. If the police force then have to supply a staff member with a company car and it's cheaper for them to do so out of one of their existing fleet or cars, then why would you begrudge them that? If it means the police force then have more money to spend on other things like paying officers, then I'm all for it.
If those civvy company car drivers misuse the lights or sirens, then that's another matter altogether.
If they have done it for tax purposes, they need investigating for integrity and honesty, just like every PC is for the slightest suggestion they have done anything wrong.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff