Are 1990s "performance" cars still quick?

[Welshbeef]

How about one of those S2000's with a huge turbo which only comes on boost and comes in hard at 8k. So 1k revs to play with

Nothing nothing nothing ..... Holy mother of God Nothing nothing nothing fk me ......

Would be bloody good fun trying to balance round a corner slipping in and out of boost.

[tumble dryer]

Welshbeef said:

How about one of those S2000's with a huge turbo which only comes on boost and comes in hard at 8k. So 1k revs to play with

Nothing nothing nothing ..... Holy mother of God Nothing nothing nothing fk me ......

Would be bloody good fun trying to balance round a corner slipping in and out of boost.

You need to see a doctor...

[s m]

e21Mark said:

Leins said:

e21Mark said:

Leins said:

s m said:

Alpina's 12v version

That's my "holy grail" car . I don't care if it'd get murdered by a Golf R these days, 260bhp in an E30 is still going to be a quick car

TWR were putting a 240 bhp into the E21 and getting it to 60 in 5 seconds.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That's fantastic Mark, proper Alpina heritage there!

I seem to recall reading something in one of the Alpina books about a number of RHD cars being built in Australia in the 80s under license, but can't remember if TWR were involved in that too

Mine was the only full-monty 240 brake car that TWR built. The test car (driven by Tiff Needell) only had 212 and they built a single 2.8 version, which also still exists. I know some of the old TWR employees had their own cars tweaked using some of the parts from the identical 323i used in the BMW County Championship. Stroked cranks taking them out to 2.8 for example. Rumour has it, Barry Sheen won as a guest driver, thanks to him 323 being more equal than the rest of the field.

Interesting read Mark

By the way, have you seen the recent Nick Brewer music video? I'm no fan of his music but it was on MTV just now and I noticed the car which might interest Leins and you



Just a screenshot above but the link below is the whole thing if you want a look

http://youtu.be/i8JZyFh2dy8

[CorvetteConvert]

Our neighbour has a nice 1990s car. It's a restored Peugeot 405 Mi16. For those who can recall them.
At the time it was considered a very powerful car with it's 1.9 litres, 150 bhp, 16 valves and twin cams.
Now we've got much smaller engines with 100 bhp more and diesel family hatchbacks with way more power.
It's called progress and 99% of 1990s cars ain't fast anymore. A few are, the few virtually nobody owns today.

[Leins]

s m said:

Interesting read Mark

By the way, have you seen the recent Nick Brewer music video? I'm no fan of his music but it was on MTV just now and I noticed the car which might interest Leins and you



Just a screenshot above but the link below is the whole thing if you want a look

http://youtu.be/i8JZyFh2dy8

Not seen that before, thanks. Those early Alpina multi-coloured deko sets look great on the cars

Another E21 starring in a music vid (@1:50) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yUzV1IHm0

[GravelBen]

150bhp 'very powerful' in 1990? I'd call it a fairly normal family car from that era.

Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 4th October 09:47

[cerb4.5lee]

GravelBen said:

150bhp 'very powerful' in 1990? I'd call it a fairly average family car from that era.

When I had my 2.9 xr4x4 back in 1993 I used to think 150bhp was a fair amount because the cars I had before it were about 60bhp!

I agree though and with it only having a 0 to 60 of 8.2 seconds it wasn't very quick or very powerful when I look back now and it just shows how far performance has moved on nowadays...its just a shame that cars weigh so much nowadays though.

[AntiLagGC8]

CorvetteConvert said:

Our neighbour has a nice 1990s car. It's a restored Peugeot 405 Mi16. For those who can recall them.
At the time it was considered a very powerful car with it's 1.9 litres, 150 bhp, 16 valves and twin cams.
Now we've got much smaller engines with 100 bhp more and diesel family hatchbacks with way more power.
It's called progress and 99% of 1990s cars ain't fast anymore. A few are, the few virtually nobody owns today.

Throughout the 1990's the Mi16 wasn't all that fast. It was possibly in the year it came out but certainly not later in the 1990's where many cars nearly or did double its power output and had far improved traction. Essentially even in the 1990's it wasn't that fast against Japanese turbo cars.

99% of 1990's cars aren't fast anymore? How about the large range of turbo charged Japanese performance cars that were light, powerful and had AWD? A lot of those cars can still are still faster than modern performance cars and are still very popular out there.

The advancements have been with safety and accessibility but not always performance.

Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Sunday 4th October 10:05

[GravelBen]

My second car as a teenager was a 1990 2.0 NA Legacy wagon with 150bhp, about 12 years old at the time but I was comparing it with mates Nissans, Toyotas etc of similar age, they were mostly just normal older cars with similar power.

I was never under any illusion that it was particularly fast or powerful, especially because Subaru made a 220bhp turbo version of the same car.

[s m]

AntiLagGC8 said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Our neighbour has a nice 1990s car. It's a restored Peugeot 405 Mi16. For those who can recall them.
At the time it was considered a very powerful car with it's 1.9 litres, 150 bhp, 16 valves and twin cams.
Now we've got much smaller engines with 100 bhp more and diesel family hatchbacks with way more power.
It's called progress and 99% of 1990s cars ain't fast anymore. A few are, the few virtually nobody owns today.

Throughout the 1990's the Mi16 wasn't all that fast. It was possibly in the year it came out but certainly not later in the 1990's where many cars nearly or did double its power output and had far improved traction. Essentially even in the 1990's it wasn't that fast against Japanese turbo cars.

99% of 1990's cars aren't fast anymore? How about the large range of turbo charged Japanese performance cars that were light, powerful and had AWD? A lot of those cars can still are still faster than modern performance cars and are still very popular out there.

The advancements have been with safety and accessibility but not always performance.

Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Sunday 4th October 10:05

The early Mi-16s were supposed to be 160bhp - same as the Citroen BX GTi 16vs. Thing is by 1990 there were 4-door saloons from Renault, Ford, Mercedes etc with up to 60bhp more

The later Mi-16s had a bigger capacity but a smidge less power

[e21Mark]

Leins said:

s m said:

Interesting read Mark

By the way, have you seen the recent Nick Brewer music video? I'm no fan of his music but it was on MTV just now and I noticed the car which might interest Leins and you



Just a screenshot above but the link below is the whole thing if you want a look

http://youtu.be/i8JZyFh2dy8

Not seen that before, thanks. Those early Alpina multi-coloured deko sets look great on the cars

Another E21 starring in a music vid (@1:50) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S0yUzV1IHm0

Pal of mine (who painted my M3) actually built the Alpina rep and is now owned by chap in the workshop next door)

Never seen the JK connection before, although his first car was an 02 and he's got a CSL E9 also.

[mnx42]

Olivera said:

Launching a 90s car you say? Well here's mine (link fixed):

https://youtu.be/bX_Caz3LM5I

Wow,sounds great!

[interloper]

cerb4.5lee said:

GravelBen said:

150bhp 'very powerful' in 1990? I'd call it a fairly average family car from that era.

When I had my 2.9 xr4x4 back in 1993 I used to think 150bhp was a fair amount because the cars I had before it were about 60bhp!

I agree though and with it only having a 0 to 60 of 8.2 seconds it wasn't very quick or very powerful when I look back now and it just shows how far performance has moved on nowadays...its just a shame that cars weigh so much nowadays though.

I'm with Gravel Ben on this, the XR4X4, quite nice though it is was only moderately quick when it came out in the Eighties, By 1993 there were loads of semi affordable cars that would hammer it.

To be honest if you climbed out of Mrs Interlopers Mazda 2 with its whopping 75bhp and got in a decent example of an XR4X4 it would still feel like a big improvement. So I see were you are coming from but if you had your head in car magazines in the late eighties and Nineties like I did, you would know there was a lot more out there.

[GC8]

The MI16 had 160bhp, not 150bhp. I can confirm that it was indeed a quick car - I had a BX16v which was similar, but better, and it pulled brilliantly. Replaced with a 944 Turbo which was an eighties performance car, and faster, but I still hold them in high regard.

Im sorry Ben, but suggesting that 150bhp equated to a normal family car is completely rubbish. This is principally a British forum, remember, so what you had in the Antipodes is neither here nor there.

[cerb4.5lee]

interloper said:

cerb4.5lee said:

GravelBen said:

150bhp 'very powerful' in 1990? I'd call it a fairly average family car from that era.

When I had my 2.9 xr4x4 back in 1993 I used to think 150bhp was a fair amount because the cars I had before it were about 60bhp!

I agree though and with it only having a 0 to 60 of 8.2 seconds it wasn't very quick or very powerful when I look back now and it just shows how far performance has moved on nowadays...its just a shame that cars weigh so much nowadays though.

I'm with Gravel Ben on this, the XR4X4, quite nice though it is was only moderately quick when it came out in the Eighties, By 1993 there were loads of semi affordable cars that would hammer it.

To be honest if you climbed out of Mrs Interlopers Mazda 2 with its whopping 75bhp and got in a decent example of an XR4X4 it would still feel like a big improvement. So I see were you are coming from but if you had your head in car magazines in the late eighties and Nineties like I did, you would know there was a lot more out there.

Yes I agree and the problem with the xr4x4 was the fact that it had the 4WD which only added weight and 150bhp from a 2.9 V6 engine is poor in anyone`s book, I am a big Ford fan boy so was always attracted to Fords in general so at the time it did hit the spot for me.

I drove one a few years ago and still loved it even though I owned far quicker cars but that's the rose tinted specs for you!

[theboss]

The last time I drove an RS2 it felt quick. That was just before every man and his dog had a Golf 7 R though!

[anonymous-user]

1990 ST185 Celica GT4 - not that quick. Was about 220bhp. After the Wizards of NOS 100bhp kit, felt a bit quicker. Late 1990s/2000s
1997 R33 GTR. Few mods, probably 400-450bhp. Very quick, launching was hilarious if not mechanically sensitive (sidestep clutch at c5000rpm). I'd guess that it'd still be quick compared to today. Owned early 2000s.

My current dad wagon (V10 S6) feels a lot slower than the GTR.

I imagine that the GTRs, especially one with a light mod or more, would have been unworldly when they arrived in the late 80s (R32) onwards

[Kawasicki]

wsurfa said:

1990 ST185 Celica GT4 - not that quick. Was about 220bhp. After the Wizards of NOS 100bhp kit, felt a bit quicker. Late 1990s/2000s
1997 R33 GTR. Few mods, probably 400-450bhp. Very quick, launching was hilarious if not mechanically sensitive (sidestep clutch at c5000rpm). I'd guess that it'd still be quick compared to today. Owned early 2000s.

My current dad wagon (V10 S6) feels a lot slower than the GTR.

I imagine that the GTRs, especially one with a light mod or more, would have been unworldly when they arrived in the late 80s (R32) onwards

A few mods on a modern GTR is 600-700 bhp. Bringing modifications to the debate doesn't help.

[ORD]

Kawasicki said:

A few mods on a modern GTR is 600-700 bhp. Bringing modifications to the debate doesn't help.

Irrelevant, unless you are saying that this kind of bonkers power has so skewed our conception of what 'fast' means that we think a 400bhp GTR from the 1990s isn't still a fast car.

In my view, of bloody course it is. 400bhp is almost too much power to use much on public roads, so certainly enough to be considered fast.

Anything with a 0-100 time of less than 11 or 12 seconds is surely fast whenever it was built, isn't it?!

[s m]

wsurfa said:

1990 ST185 Celica GT4 - not that quick. Was about 220bhp. After the Wizards of NOS 100bhp kit, felt a bit quicker. Late 1990s/2000s
1997 R33 GTR. Few mods, probably 400-450bhp. Very quick, launching was hilarious if not mechanically sensitive (sidestep clutch at c5000rpm). I'd guess that it'd still be quick compared to today. Owned early 2000s.

My current dad wagon (V10 S6) feels a lot slower than the GTR.

I imagine that the GTRs, especially one with a light mod or more, would have been unworldly when they arrived in the late 80s (R32) onwards

Autocar tested a Uk spec R33 GTR in 1997

0-60 in 5.0 and 0-100 in 13.0

The R34 GTR they tested a couple of years later was considerably quicker for a 'supposed extra 40bhp'