VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

[citizensm1th]

It was not a labour spokesperson who stated they made a mistake it was an ex government scientist who advised the government who stated that the scientists had advised the government of the time wrongly

PH inconvenient facts don't matter

[Vaud]

deaglecat said:

Wonder what this really means ? Are they off the forecourt... or just not for sale. And where are they storing them...

The dealers must be being recompensed for this.

So that mean presumably you can't trade in an affected model to a VW dealer. I would be interested if anyone has tried ...

VW UK need to understand that this is affecting some current owners - those that might want to change cars.

Wild guess that VW will have to underwrite the dealer valuation.

[krunchkin]

citizensm1th said:

It was not a labour spokesperson who stated they made a mistake it was an ex government scientist who advised the government who stated that the scientists had advised the government of the time wrongly

PH inconvenient facts don't matter

From The Guardian:

Earlier on Thursday, the former UK science minister Lord Drayson admitted that the Labour government’s support for diesel cars had been a mistake, and warned that diesel cars are “literally killing people”.

[MarshPhantom]

krunchkin said:

What a fking joke this all is. Labour now saying they made a mistake promoting diesel and the government should offer a scrappage scheme for them. So my girlfriends Megane which she pays 30 quid a year tax for is now an evil killer, while my s2000 which I pay five hundred fking quid tax on is now apparently green and clean. What utter fking bks

Not that hard to understand, they've realised air pollution is a bigger (real) problem than made up MMGW.

I personally got fked over by the London LEZ with our campervan, no scrappage scheme with that. Our options were either sell the van for peanuts or spend £4k getting it fitted with emissions kit. Thankfully we did neither.

This was all on the the whim of face Boris Johnson, who shelved plans for expansion of the scheme then unshelved them just after we bought the camper, so st happens.

[egor110]

MarshPhantom said:

Not that hard to understand, they've realised air pollution is a bigger (real) problem than made up MMGW.

I personally got fked over by the London LEZ with our campervan, no scrappage scheme with that. Our options were either sell the van for peanuts or spend £4k getting it fitted with emissions kit. Thankfully we did neither.

This was all on the the whim of face Boris Johnson, who shelved plans for expansion of the scheme then unshelved them just after we bought the camper, so st happens.

Why would you hsve to sell it for peanuts?

[MarshPhantom]

egor110 said:

MarshPhantom said:

Not that hard to understand, they've realised air pollution is a bigger (real) problem than made up MMGW.

I personally got fked over by the London LEZ with our campervan, no scrappage scheme with that. Our options were either sell the van for peanuts or spend £4k getting it fitted with emissions kit. Thankfully we did neither.

This was all on the the whim of face Boris Johnson, who shelved plans for expansion of the scheme then unshelved them just after we bought the camper, so st happens.

Why would you hsve to sell it for peanuts?

Because non LEZ compliant.

[tumble dryer]

First they took our deisels...

Can you not see the head of steam gathering?

[_dobbo_]

krunchkin said:

What a fking joke this all is. Labour now saying they made a mistake promoting diesel and the government should offer a scrappage scheme for them. So my girlfriends Megane which she pays 30 quid a year tax for is now an evil killer, while my s2000 which I pay five hundred fking quid tax on is now apparently green and clean. What utter fking bks

The only thing that's bks is if you think anyone is saying your S2000 is green and clean.

New found realisation that diesel is not as environmentally friendly as thought does not automatically mean petrol is clean and lovely.

[delta0]

cptsideways said:

14:1 is the correct figure, which is impressively high

The existing one runs that. The gen 2 which is the latest about to come out version is 18:1.

[Willy Nilly]

Fastdruid said:

Jesus, give the stuck record a break.

We get it that you have a hard-on for diesel. No one is suggesting that petrol gives off only daisy's and kittens but it doesn't give off the same nasty stuff that diesels do and seeing as you like to bang on about the nasty stuff in petrol, how about a look at some of the nasty stuff that comes out of diesels:

Group 3 Carcinogens: acrolein, aniline, chromium compounds, mercury compounds, toluene, xylene isomers and mixtures: o-xylenes, m-xylenes, p-xylenes
Group 2B carcinogens: styrene, nickel, naphthalene, acetaldehyde
Group 2A carcinogens: 1,3-Butadiene,
Group 1 Carcinogens: arsenic, benzene, beryllium compounds, cadmium, formaldehyde, Benzo(a)pyrene
Endocrine disruptors: arsenic, bis(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate, dibutyl phthalate, inorganic lead
Toxic compounds: antimony compounds, biphenyl, chlorobenzene

Then you have one of the strongest carcinogens known 3-Nitrobenzanthrone
Plus some chlorine (a by product of urea injection so going to be more EURO VI)
Then some cyanide compounds, cobalt compounds, cresol isomers, dioxins and dibenzofurans, ethylbenzene, manganese compounds, methanol, methyl ethyl ketone, 4-nitrobiphenyl, phenol, phosphorus, polycyclic organic matter, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), Pyrene, Benzo(e)pyrene, Fluoranthene, propionaldehyde, selenium compounds and sulfur compounds.

That's before you even go into the DEP (Diesel Exhaust Particles) and of course finally good old NOx which is where we started.

yet people are living longer than ever

[MarshPhantom]

andy_s said:

Time to dust off this baby - the nuclear powered car perhaps...

Or the Atomic powered Big Bus

[egor110]

MarshPhantom said:

egor110 said:

MarshPhantom said:

Not that hard to understand, they've realised air pollution is a bigger (real) problem than made up MMGW.

I personally got fked over by the London LEZ with our campervan, no scrappage scheme with that. Our options were either sell the van for peanuts or spend £4k getting it fitted with emissions kit. Thankfully we did neither.

This was all on the the whim of face Boris Johnson, who shelved plans for expansion of the scheme then unshelved them just after we bought the camper, so st happens.

Why would you hsve to sell it for peanuts?

You don't have to sell it only in London though, so the whole LEZ wouldn't be a factor.

Because non LEZ compliant.

[lightthefuse]

Found it odd that my A6 loaner whilst the A5 was in for a service was suddenly out of commission... guessing it's going in for a recall.

Replaced by (and the guff the Audi rep came out with raised my eyebrow to Roger Moore proportions... "so you can see the Audi's better." 'Same parts bin ya' twot.') a Golf 7 TSI. Surprisingly good for white goods, and great economy for a petrol.

Smug TFSI driver until it blows up...

[anonymous-user]

krunchkin said:

citizensm1th said:

It was not a labour spokesperson who stated they made a mistake it was an ex government scientist who advised the government who stated that the scientists had advised the government of the time wrongly

PH inconvenient facts don't matter

From The Guardian:

Earlier on Thursday, the former UK science minister Lord Drayson admitted that the Labour government’s support for diesel cars had been a mistake, and warned that diesel cars are “literally killing people”.

All true. Shame this was allowed to happen in the first place. At least things will change for the better now.

[Gilbertd]

fergusd said:

What legislation, specifically, do these 'effected' UK cars breach ?

Do we know, for sure, that they are in any way non compliant with UK/Euro legislation ?

What is the legal situation on not submitting a car for a non safety related recall (if this is actually a recall) ?

. . . just ignoring all the hysteria for a moment . . .

I think we can assume that they don't comply with EU emissions or VW would have come out immediately and said that it was only the US ones that they'd fiddled the test on. So if we assume that they are non-compliant for whatever reason, for starters they declared that they meet all current requirements for European Type Approval, which they won't if they don't meet the emissions standard, so it would be illegal to place them on the market in the EU. Whether that would be on a country by country basis or if one country would bring a prosecution I've no idea but in the UK it would be Section 2 of the Fraud Act

2 Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

[Condi]

Labbetts said:

If people are still queuing up for new VWs as much as they were, or the vast numbers of used buyers aren't a little nervous now, then i'm happy to stand corrected. But in my view, with a scandal as big as this there will be some fallout, and that will inevitably hit the pockets of owners.

The problem is nobody does know. While nobody knows the natural reaction is to worry about the worst, rather than see the opportunities. So yes, sales at the moment are undoublty affected. Will they be affected long term? Depends on many many things - is it endemic across all brands, will the patch make any difference to how it drives, will there be any lower reliability etc etc. Until some of those are answered people will always be cautious.


Personally I suspect it is a very expensive storm in a tea-cup, and in 12 months time there will be little affect on brand appeal or used values of VAG cars.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Condi said:

I suspect it is a very expensive storm in a tea-cup, and in 12 months time there will be little affect on brand appeal or used values of VAG cars.

^^^ Yup.

[MarshPhantom]

egor110 said:

MarshPhantom said:

egor110 said:

MarshPhantom said:

Not that hard to understand, they've realised air pollution is a bigger (real) problem than made up MMGW.

I personally got fked over by the London LEZ with our campervan, no scrappage scheme with that. Our options were either sell the van for peanuts or spend £4k getting it fitted with emissions kit. Thankfully we did neither.

This was all on the the whim of face Boris Johnson, who shelved plans for expansion of the scheme then unshelved them just after we bought the camper, so st happens.

Why would you hsve to sell it for peanuts?

You don't have to sell it only in London though, so the whole LEZ wouldn't be a factor.

Because non LEZ compliant.

But I live in Lndon, try selling a vehicle that can't be used in the capital or bought by any of it's 10m residents and see how you get on.
People don't like travelling into London to look at cars either, too much hassle.

[MarshPhantom]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Condi said:

I suspect it is a very expensive storm in a tea-cup, and in 12 months time there will be little affect on brand appeal or used values of VAG cars.

^^^ Yup.

So you'd both buy a new VW in the next few weeks?

[delta0]

fergusd said:

What legislation, specifically, do these 'effected' UK cars breach ?

Do we know, for sure, that they are in any way non compliant with UK/Euro legislation ?

What is the legal situation on not submitting a car for a non safety related recall (if this is actually a recall) ?

. . . just ignoring all the hysteria for a moment . . .

They were so far over the US maximum allowable that it is impossible for them not to be over the Euro maximum too. They are also recalling UK cars which wouldn't be necessary if they were Euro compliant.