Another Giles wins Super pro.

[ribaric]

I found it very strange to see Barry standing trackside as the renown maroon dragster carved it's way to win the national finals. Nobody wins Super pro these days unless they are good ...very good... at everything! No surprise then to see Dan Giles take advantage of all that know-how in the Giles and Hartley camp to emerge victorious. With the like of Gough, Hauser Jnr., Marston, the professor and at least a dozen others (particularly the ex Jnr dragster drivers), Super pro must now be the toughest eliminator of them all. Engineering excellence, scrupulous preparation and a highly skilled driver is the minimum requirement to stand any chance whatsoever. I see very little room for even the smallest error in eliminations these days, make one and you're gone. I don't know what G&H have planned for 2016 but if Dan will drive, look out everyone else.
I'm looking forward to it.

[NitroWars]

I don't think that Barry is ready to hang up his firesuit for good yet but he has bred a very competent successor in Daniel (he doesn't like to be called Dan)!

[ribaric]

Daniel it is.

[Rat_Fink_67]

Not wanting to spoil another Super Pro lovefest of course, but I think where "engineering excellence and scrupulous preparation" are concerned the bike pits probably has that bit nailed. And as far as being the "toughest" class I guess that boils down to how you interpret tough. Sticking 3000hp to the track through treads with no wheelie bars when the front end is pawing at the sky at 1000ft is my idea of tough. There are all manner of classes where people are capable of cutting a good light, and in a lot of cases without the extra 1/10ths ready steady go. I appreciate you're a Super Pro cheerleader but it's laying it on a bit thick to be nailing it up as the "toughest" class in drag racing.

[Rat_Fink_67]

Sticking a pick up truck in the 6s whilst going 6/10ths under your index with a single 4 barrel and no nitrous...Now that's engineering excellence

[ribaric]

"I appreciate you're a Super Pro cheerleader"

Guilty... I guess. I'm also a Leyton Orient supporter so I can't really lay claim to being the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Isn't all about 'balance'? Some love nitro and run their machines to achieve their aims in that direction, others prefer the kudos of being street legal, the nostalgia teams are numerous and dedicated to their theme, everyone has their own particular slant on what does it for them and there are classes for most tastes and budgets. For my individual taste, Super-Pro has the balance which appeals to me. Sure, it's not as tough as trying to pilot a SWB blown altered/FC or a mega-powered bike up the track but the engineering excellence is more geared to running a lot of events within a budget (not that anyone succeeds in keeping to their planned costs) and providing a machine which is as predictable in terms of performance as is necessary in a high quality bracket class. The driving skills required also are different, staging and RT are king but so is the ability to drive to the plan, every time, and then play the game at the top end when required.
For me, the RT/ET 'packages' achieved by the top bracket teams whilst running relatively fast and against teams who give you only a few hundredths of a second opportunity to beat them - is what does it for me. For you and many others, it's different. In my view, Super-Pro is the most difficult in that you can't buy a win, you have to do it all and get it right consistently. Other classes have different requirements, it's a balance.
I enjoy all the classes and appreciate what each brings to the table of the sport we all love. I don't get up from my grandstand seat when the JDs come round, I watch them all.

Edited by ribaric on Thursday 24th September 11:02

[Burndown]

In index racing you need a consistent tune up. In heads up you need a consistent and quick tune up.

[Rat_Fink_67]

Show me a class where you can "buy a win"? I think you may be doing others a disservice there. You can have all the money in the world and every latest and greatest piece of hardware at your disposal, but you can't buy the knowledge and dedication it takes to apply it to the track. Take pro modified as an example, there have been plenty of big budgets that have come and gone over the years, but very few of those have had sustained success. Money is only a small piece of the overall puzzle, and you can't "buy a win" whether it's sportsman ET, junior dragster or top fuel. I appreciate the sentiment where super pro is concerned and where you're coming from, but there are no "gimmes" anywhere.

[RB446]

And yes we all have differing views of what cuts it for us. I have been out of Drag Racing since 1990 when I retired my '69 Cuda. I have for the past 3 yrs got back into it a bit, spectating, getting to know a few people again and I can honestly say in my opnion that apart from the Heads up Pro classes inc. S/Street bike, Pro-stock bike, Bracket Racing or index racing no matter how nice or fast the cars are is just totally boring and does nothing to promote the sport especially for the average spectator who at best cannot understand why the car who came 2nd WON!...If your into brackets/indexing all well and good, I'm sure you enjoyed the meeting and had a great time, but setting a car up and then leaving it alone for the rest of the meeting so you can repeat is not my idea of drag racing, whether your on a stop or playing games at the top end as has been referred too is not what the sport is or was about in my view. I want to be under the bonnet or the back end tweaking all the time trying to get that a bit more hp or get that short time down and ring another 1/10th out of it so when I come up against the next racer in a proper heads up class where we are on a par with each other I have tried my best to go FASTER so I can cut that top end beam first, and thats where staging well and cutting a good tree really counts, not seeing how best I can slow the car down or build it just to run the same number every time. Super Modified was the best affordable class we had in the 90's, its a shame it ended and we will not see the likes of it again, thats what this sport needs again....

[Rat_Fink_67]

Nice to see somebody else gets it

[ribaric]

I get it too. I also know the numbers of fans (not) in the stands for ET races demonstrates clearly it is not a hot spectator sport, hence my reference to be a Leyton Orient fan - someone has to be but we are few in number. Luckily, the way drag racing is run in the UK, we all get a bit of what we want.

[prostang]

I am sure we would all like to race heads up but in the car classes pro mod and street eliminator are your only options . Also without the bracket classes there would be no racing anyway .

[RB446]

Pro-Mod is great, but beyond most peoples finances, if you come by your money honestly....Street Eliminator is a joke in itself apart from the "taking part", as the commentator tries to talk it up, going out there and flogging your car for no chance of winning unless you got ££££££'s in it and can run 7.40's or better and hoping that your faster oponent shakes/blows the tyres or has a glitch is almost futile, really you might as well be at a RWYB for a timeslip....and I won't go into the "kudos" about being Street legal or street driven cars cos that will start me off.

Its a class that COULD be real cool, but sadly again it lacks better rules to equal the cars out, as in weight/engine size, power adders etc., its the build what you want and fit it into a class syndrome, thats the biggest downfall of Racing in this country. If we had some decent classes with proper rules people would build their cars to it, just like they did with Super Modified, its not rocket science. What the real issue is I presume, is that people would then actually have to work harder at picking their parts better, the tune needs to be top notch and then optimising their car/chassis to turn that power into a top winning ET within the rules, and thats not so easy when the other cars have very similar p/w ratio's. Thats what Racing is ALL about, it lasted for a while with SM but then as I heard racers started moaning that they weren't competitive and it collapsed, just goes to show you what I was on about before, working harder at it, its much easier to get your car to just perform the same every time with whatever you've built.

I suggested a "Stock Block" stock stroke heads up class with only a few very simple rules like a minmum weight for SB and BB cars to some people up north through a guy I know, and already its a case of there moaning about being checked for stroke, pumping engines etc., won't be enough cars etc., so its an uphill struggle thats just not gonna happen, so lets just all continue to have fun and enjoy Bracket Racing cos without it as you say, there wouldn't be any racing in this country!

[Rat_Fink_67]

RB446 said:

If we had some decent classes with proper rules people would build their cars to it, just like they did with Super Modified, its not rocket science. What the real issue is I presume, is that people would then actually have to work harder at picking their parts better, the tune needs to be top notch and then optimising their car/chassis to turn that power into a top winning ET within the rules, and thats not so easy when the other cars have very similar p/w ratio's. Thats what Racing is ALL about, it lasted for a while with SM but then as I heard racers started moaning that they weren't competitive and it collapsed, just goes to show you what I was on about before, working harder at it, its much easier to get your car to just perform the same every time with whatever you've built.

Nail on the head. All this talk of "if it weren't for bracket racing there wouldn't be any" is utter bks. It's so popular in this country because it's the easy option. You've got some safety regs and then basically do what you like, the classic "I've built a car so I'll look for somewhere to race it". So what's wrong with Comp Eliminator?! Nothing apart from it takes time and effort to work on an engine and chassis combo to be competitive and barring 3 or 4 teams nobody can be arsed. The same thing that killed Super Mod, most of the naysayers for that class used to talk about rules that didn't even exist! Because it's easier to find an excuse not to do something than give it a try, wait for it to disappear and then bemoan a lack of affordable non-bracket class. And budget doesn't figure in to the equation either, not when there are virtually full on Top Alcohol cars running in Super Pro.

If it were my call I'd keep Sportsman ET because it's a great grass roots class, ditto for Super Gas as it's a relatively cost friendly way in to heads-up racing, and then ditch the rest. I'd then come up with no-breakout indexes for all the current bracket class runners so they could keep the beloved staggered starts but with the added incentive of being rewarded for working on ways to go faster. It wouldn't have to break the bank either, we're not talking about Pro Stock R&D and beryllium con rods here. Then beyond that maybe a Pro Comp style deal to lump the alcohol cars together as it's clear that the current TAFC and TAD classes have become virtually unsustainable on our shores. Street Eliminator and Pro Mod can stay as is.

It'll never happen, but something needs to at some stage because drag racing is desperate for a kick up the arse. You can all pat each other on the backs in Pro ET and Super Pro about how nothing would exist without you, but you can be damn sure that if the day arrives when those classes are the only two around then you'll be about to run for the last time. Drag racing can't be sustained on bracket racing no matter how much you wish otherwise.

[RB446]

I take it you are the one and the same?, that car stood out for me back then, 10.0's if I remember well?...pretty sure that was me in the vid looking on with my hands in my coat....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6YUh7QkP8

Edited by RB446 on Saturday 26th September 10:47

Edited by RB446 on Saturday 26th September 10:48

[Rat_Fink_67]

RB446 said:

I take it you are the one and the same?, that car stood out for me back then, 10.0's if I remember well?...pretty sure that was me in the vid looking on with my hands in my coat....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6YUh7QkP8

Edited by RB446 on Saturday 26th September 10:47

Edited by RB446 on Saturday 26th September 10:48

Same car but later in life. 2007 Super Modified champions.

[RB446]

That looks real cool, no doubt still a stick car or Lenco?, Nitrous or big ci car?....shame I missed those years when SM was running, didn't see the car in the list when doing my research about SM

http://www.supermodified.org/rules

I know Fred from the days at Dave Pollens Garage, clever lad is Fred, anyhow all the best...Les Szabo

[Rat_Fink_67]

RB446 said:

That looks real cool, no doubt still a stick car or Lenco?, Nitrous or big ci car?....shame I missed those years when SM was running, didn't see the car in the list when doing my research about SM

http://www.supermodified.org/rules

I know Fred from the days at Dave Pollens Garage, clever lad is Fred, anyhow all the best...Les Szabo

Yeah it was quick in it's day; 509ci big block, the obligatory 5lb bottle and cheater solenoids, 0.600" intake lift, 4-speed Lenco and a Hays mkXII clutch. She went 7.612 @ 184 and held the class speed record for about 18 months after we'd sold the car. It's a shame you couldn't find us listed when researching the class, at one point I ran the website, and my Mum was the class rep! We were heavily involved as a family and still have very fond memories of Super Mod.

[RB446]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

Yeah it was quick in it's day; She went 7.612 @ 184

I still think thats quick for today, what other door cars run that fast at 2580lbs, can't think of any that aren't blown or have 600+inch motors, and 184!! is going some, even the wallace calc only has you going 178, I guess N20 is really pulling that mph up there, I think Fred had a 461ci motor but was around 2330lbs?. So you prob had around 600>650n/a hp and another 400 of N20, thats where the tune came into it, Rob was saying he used a special N20 tune program, suspect you used 12.1+CR's and C16 to achieve that?. I wonder if the Pod and racers could be persuaded to resurrect the class?...certainly get me attending again!, and here's a short Vid of Fred and rob going at it at Dragstalgia 2015 if you haven't seen it, 7.41 Fred, 7.55 Rob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1Sm0q7QRc

Edited by RB446 on Sunday 27th September 19:34

Edited by RB446 on Sunday 27th September 20:27

[Tet]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

So what's wrong with Comp Eliminator?! Nothing apart from it takes time and effort to work on an engine and chassis combo to be competitive

Nearly. It takes time, effort and *money*. Look at the US. Look at Sweden. The front running comp eliminator cars are spending a fortune, to the point where it's not sustainable. What's the incentive for someone to go racing if they look at the class index and the budget needed to run a second under it and it's simply not an option? Like it or not, that's the reality for a lot of people. It's not about having the know how to tune the engine and chassis to get another half a tenth. It's about not having the money to get within a couple of tenths in the first place. Comp Eliminator is also not viable unless it's done in significant numbers. Without that, there aren't enough runs for CIC to balance it out. But since you're proposing scrapping the bracket classes, I guess that would help out there.

Rat_Fink_67 said:

Drag racing can't be sustained on bracket racing no matter how much you wish otherwise.

I'd claim the same applies the other way around. Drag racing can't be sustained on heads up racing, no matter how much you wish otherwise. Both have their place, and I'd say both are necessary for the health of the sport. One is great for spectators, one is great for racers. You need to appease both camps.