Can insurers make you let them see your e-license?
Discussion
Simple question really - can insurers force you to allow them access to the unique code for your online e-license?
I'm slightly miffed off. When I took out the policy I had to send them a copy of both sides of my card, and also both sides of my counterpart. However now they are saying they will not discuss it until I give them access. It seems like they are just trying to mess me around.
What is more - when I filled in the comparison site it asked when I had FIRST passed my test. However I was banned and had to redo my test. Meaning that my license details online are different to those on my card and what I told them. Which could be just another cause of hassle.
For Loon - as you are a suspicious type. The back of my card says the date I passed my first test. My paper part says the time I passed my first test. The online one says the date I passed my second test. If you don't believe me and think I'm conning the insurers I'll happily send you copies of this stuff.
So can I just tell them no? I'm looking for an easy life here with no hassle. I'm not trying to pull a fast one.
I'm slightly miffed off. When I took out the policy I had to send them a copy of both sides of my card, and also both sides of my counterpart. However now they are saying they will not discuss it until I give them access. It seems like they are just trying to mess me around.
What is more - when I filled in the comparison site it asked when I had FIRST passed my test. However I was banned and had to redo my test. Meaning that my license details online are different to those on my card and what I told them. Which could be just another cause of hassle.
For Loon - as you are a suspicious type. The back of my card says the date I passed my first test. My paper part says the time I passed my first test. The online one says the date I passed my second test. If you don't believe me and think I'm conning the insurers I'll happily send you copies of this stuff.
So can I just tell them no? I'm looking for an easy life here with no hassle. I'm not trying to pull a fast one.
killerferret666 said:
Its a good question, I don't have your answer though. But I wonder does your first test actually even count now as you had to retake it so it is superceeded by the more recent date?
I know the paper license counterparts no longer hold any legal status according to the gov website.
I don't know. I'm happy to take it on the chin if it doesn't. However the question was: "when did you first pass your driving test" or something like that. I don't know how more clear it could be. I know the paper license counterparts no longer hold any legal status according to the gov website.
photosnob said:
So can I just tell them no? I'm looking for an easy life here with no hassle. I'm not trying to pull a fast one.
So why not just let them see what they want then?It's not like they can do anything with the information, so surely an easy life would be just to give it them and you and they can carry on with whatever else it is you have to do.
northwest monkey said:
So why not just let them see what they want then?
It's not like they can do anything with the information, so surely an easy life would be just to give it them and you and they can carry on with whatever else it is you have to do.
I probably will. It's not like they can do anything with the information, so surely an easy life would be just to give it them and you and they can carry on with whatever else it is you have to do.
But - as I've said. They already have the info. And there is some info online which could potentially cause me aggro.
I'm asking a question. Where I work we cannot demand to see customers documents if they have personal information on (apparently due to data protection, although I don't believe this). I'm wondering is insurers have some exemption.
king thing.Purple - apologies that I'm not very literate.
Anyway here is a quote from the comparison site:
"Years Licence held:
Tell us how long you've held your current driving licence. Check on the back of the licence for the 'from' date"
I gave them that date, got my card in front of me. If I'm in the wrong I'm in the wrong. I'll just give them the code. However I'm still not happy about having to supply this information repeatedly. I want them explaining what I'm meant to give them if that is wrong.
Still wonder if there is a legal obligation to give this info. I'll be giving it. But might help someone else.
Anyway here is a quote from the comparison site:
"Years Licence held:
Tell us how long you've held your current driving licence. Check on the back of the licence for the 'from' date"
I gave them that date, got my card in front of me. If I'm in the wrong I'm in the wrong. I'll just give them the code. However I'm still not happy about having to supply this information repeatedly. I want them explaining what I'm meant to give them if that is wrong.
Still wonder if there is a legal obligation to give this info. I'll be giving it. But might help someone else.
photosnob said:
I probably will.
But - as I've said. They already have the info. And there is some info online which could potentially cause me aggro.
I'm asking a question. Where I work we cannot demand to see customers documents if they have personal information on (apparently due to data protection, although I don't believe this). I'm wondering is insurers have some exemption.
Of course they can ask to see personal information, how else do you think insurers can decide whether to offer you cover or not?But - as I've said. They already have the info. And there is some info online which could potentially cause me aggro.
I'm asking a question. Where I work we cannot demand to see customers documents if they have personal information on (apparently due to data protection, although I don't believe this). I'm wondering is insurers have some exemption.
They can ask to see the licence and you should show them as well. I told you that this claim was ticking a load of fraud triggers and this is just another of those triggers. I'd like to see the exact wording of their questions, as I very much doubt it says "when did you first pass your test?" If you're going to hide behind this then you could be on a sticky wicket.
How long ago were the two tests passed? It's unlikely that an insurer would decline a claim for this if the second test was over 10 years ago, anything less though could be tricky as they may well say that they wouldn't have taken on the risk had you answered the question correctly.
The fact that you're even asking this question does speak volumes though.
I don't really understand why people are "evasive" with insurance.
If you tell them everything pertinent/asked for, clearly and unambiguously, and they won't insure you then you're in no worse position than you were at the outset.
If you hide something, or otherwise give a "creative answer", then there's every chance you'd just end up with a piece of paper that superficially says you're insured, rather than the peace of mind from knowing that you're actually insured one assumes most would want from shelling out for it.
If you can't get insurance (or at least not for an amount you're prepared to pay) without being evasive or otherwise obstructive, then them's the breaks I'm afraid.
(More of a general point rather than specifically towards the OP)
If you tell them everything pertinent/asked for, clearly and unambiguously, and they won't insure you then you're in no worse position than you were at the outset.
If you hide something, or otherwise give a "creative answer", then there's every chance you'd just end up with a piece of paper that superficially says you're insured, rather than the peace of mind from knowing that you're actually insured one assumes most would want from shelling out for it.
If you can't get insurance (or at least not for an amount you're prepared to pay) without being evasive or otherwise obstructive, then them's the breaks I'm afraid.
(More of a general point rather than specifically towards the OP)
LoonR1 said:
Of course they can ask to see personal information, how else do you think insurers can decide whether to offer you cover or not?
They can ask to see the licence and you should show them as well. I told you that this claim was ticking a load of fraud triggers and this is just another of those triggers. I'd like to see the exact wording of their questions, as I very much doubt it says "when did you first pass your test?" If you're going to hide behind this then you could be on a sticky wicket.
How long ago were the two tests passed? It's unlikely that an insurer would decline a claim for this if the second test was over 10 years ago, anything less though could be tricky as they may well say that they wouldn't have taken on the risk had you answered the question correctly.
The fact that you're even asking this question does speak volumes though.
Loon I got my insurance from moneysupermarket. The question is: "How long have you held this license?", when you click the little question mark next to this you get: Years Licence held -Tell us how long you've held your current driving licence. Check on the back of the licence for the 'from' date". How else are you meant to read that? On the back of my license it says a date earlier from when I re-passed my test. What would you have written considering that? They can ask to see the licence and you should show them as well. I told you that this claim was ticking a load of fraud triggers and this is just another of those triggers. I'd like to see the exact wording of their questions, as I very much doubt it says "when did you first pass your test?" If you're going to hide behind this then you could be on a sticky wicket.
How long ago were the two tests passed? It's unlikely that an insurer would decline a claim for this if the second test was over 10 years ago, anything less though could be tricky as they may well say that they wouldn't have taken on the risk had you answered the question correctly.
The fact that you're even asking this question does speak volumes though.
What's more - as I already have cover, we are not talking about an insurers choice to offer cover. We are talking about if they have a right to demand access. I am no expert (you are) - however I don't see what they can do if I refuse. Refuse the claim maybe. I don't know.
First test was passed in 2007. Second test was passed in 2012. I'll see what happens. As before I accept what you are saying about triggers etc. I can't help that. I know I'm being honest. I can't change that I'm going travelling in a few months. However I would say - if I was trying to scam insurers I would not be putting so much info on the internet, and even offering to send you the information given I know that you work in this industry.
I can send/post a screen shot of those questions if you think I'm trying it on. I do appreciate your advice and help, but it would be nice to get the benefit of doubt once.
photosnob said:
LoonR1 said:
Of course they can ask to see personal information, how else do you think insurers can decide whether to offer you cover or not?
They can ask to see the licence and you should show them as well. I told you that this claim was ticking a load of fraud triggers and this is just another of those triggers. I'd like to see the exact wording of their questions, as I very much doubt it says "when did you first pass your test?" If you're going to hide behind this then you could be on a sticky wicket.
How long ago were the two tests passed? It's unlikely that an insurer would decline a claim for this if the second test was over 10 years ago, anything less though could be tricky as they may well say that they wouldn't have taken on the risk had you answered the question correctly.
The fact that you're even asking this question does speak volumes though.
Loon I got my insurance from moneysupermarket. The question is: "How long have you held this license?", when you click the little question mark next to this you get: Years Licence held -Tell us how long you've held your current driving licence. Check on the back of the licence for the 'from' date". How else are you meant to read that? On the back of my license it says a date earlier from when I re-passed my test. What would you have written considering that? They can ask to see the licence and you should show them as well. I told you that this claim was ticking a load of fraud triggers and this is just another of those triggers. I'd like to see the exact wording of their questions, as I very much doubt it says "when did you first pass your test?" If you're going to hide behind this then you could be on a sticky wicket.
How long ago were the two tests passed? It's unlikely that an insurer would decline a claim for this if the second test was over 10 years ago, anything less though could be tricky as they may well say that they wouldn't have taken on the risk had you answered the question correctly.
The fact that you're even asking this question does speak volumes though.
What's more - as I already have cover, we are not talking about an insurers choice to offer cover. We are talking about if they have a right to demand access. I am no expert (you are) - however I don't see what they can do if I refuse. Refuse the claim maybe. I don't know.
First test was passed in 2007. Second test was passed in 2012. I'll see what happens. As before I accept what you are saying about triggers etc. I can't help that. I know I'm being honest. I can't change that I'm going travelling in a few months. However I would say - if I was trying to scam insurers I would not be putting so much info on the internet, and even offering to send you the information given I know that you work in this industry.
I can send/post a screen shot of those questions if you think I'm trying it on. I do appreciate your advice and help, but it would be nice to get the benefit of doubt once.
The dates you've given tell me exactly why you've done it too, the earlier date will produce a far more financially favourable quote than the latter. Did you also tell them about the reason that you had to retake to your test, as I'm sure that would have still been asked about when you took out this policy?
There is plenty of benefit of the doubt given in a lot of insurance stuff No matter what the outcome on this, you won't be referred for prosecution for insurance fraud for a start on the benefit of the doubt / discretion side of things.
Putting info on the Internet under an anonymous username is irrelevant. Sticking this on your Facebook page would be just as irrelevant, as a double bluff is pretty simple to do. Insurers don't trawl fora looking for stuff like this, despite the wibblists views.
photosnob said:
First test was passed in 2007. Second test was passed in 2012.
So, presumably, they do know about that ban and re-test? In which case, if there is a question raised from the difference, it should be straightforward to answer.Look at it from their p-o-v. They have a photocopy (easily changed or forged) of a licence, and their potential customer refuses to give them access to the online record. Now why would that be...? Hmmm. Do we want this person as a customer if they're going to be so evasive? What are they hiding?
LoonR1 said:
You're not going to,like what I'm going to say, but you're taking the piss amd you pretty well know it. They asked a pretty simple question "How long have you held your current licence?" and you chose to tell them how long it's been since you passed your test the first time and ignore that your current licence is the one you've held since you passed your second test.
The dates you've given tell me exactly why you've done it too, the earlier date will produce a far more financially favourable quote than the latter. Did you also tell them about the reason that you had to retake to your test, as I'm sure that would have still been asked about when you took out this policy?
There is plenty of benefit of the doubt given in a lot of insurance stuff No matter what the outcome on this, you won't be referred for prosecution for insurance fraud for a start on the benefit of the doubt / discretion side of things.
Putting info on the Internet under an anonymous username is irrelevant. Sticking this on your Facebook page would be just as irrelevant, as a double bluff is pretty simple to do. Insurers don't trawl fora looking for stuff like this, despite the wibblists views.
Loon read the wording. I looked at the back of my card. Whether I thought it would give me cheaper quote is irrelevant to me. I did what was asked. For the avoidance of doubt. I did what was asked - yes I thought it would give me a cheaper quote. I didn't do anything other than provide the information they asked for. Again - what would you have done in my position? The dates you've given tell me exactly why you've done it too, the earlier date will produce a far more financially favourable quote than the latter. Did you also tell them about the reason that you had to retake to your test, as I'm sure that would have still been asked about when you took out this policy?
There is plenty of benefit of the doubt given in a lot of insurance stuff No matter what the outcome on this, you won't be referred for prosecution for insurance fraud for a start on the benefit of the doubt / discretion side of things.
Putting info on the Internet under an anonymous username is irrelevant. Sticking this on your Facebook page would be just as irrelevant, as a double bluff is pretty simple to do. Insurers don't trawl fora looking for stuff like this, despite the wibblists views.
I don't think insurers trawl the internet. However I don't think it would be best practise to post all the details if you are trying it on.
In answer to your question. Yes I did quote the points/ban - in the last 5 years. Using the same logic as your post (I'm not trying to be rude - but this is how I see it). I should give them points which I don't have to declare as to not do so is taking the piss?
My point is that they asked for the date on the back of my card. I actually think you are alright. But I don't see how I've done anything wrong by answering the questions using the guidance given.
Photosnob, it seems pretty cut and dry to me looking at what's posted above. You FIRST passed your test in 2007. That's the answer. Simple, no messing around.
The fact you were banned and took a re-test in 2012 has no bearing on the question asked by your insurers. The main thing is that you've declared that ban and retest in 2012 which you stated you have.
The fact you were banned and took a re-test in 2012 has no bearing on the question asked by your insurers. The main thing is that you've declared that ban and retest in 2012 which you stated you have.
photosnob said:
Loon read the wording. I looked at the back of my card. Whether I thought it would give me cheaper quote is irrelevant to me. I did what was asked. For the avoidance of doubt. I did what was asked - yes I thought it would give me a cheaper quote. I didn't do anything other than provide the information they asked for. Again - what would you have done in my position?
I don't think insurers trawl the internet. However I don't think it would be best practise to post all the details if you are trying it on.
In answer to your question. Yes I did quote the points/ban - in the last 5 years. Using the same logic as your post (I'm not trying to be rude - but this is how I see it). I should give them points which I don't have to declare as to not do so is taking the piss?
My point is that they asked for the date on the back of my card. I actually think you are alright. But I don't see how I've done anything wrong by answering the questions using the guidance given.
They asked when you got your current licence. That's pretty obvious which date you should be giving. Declaring the ban may help you as that at least shows you've not forgotten everything. At no point have I suggested declaring points behind the dates they ask. I don't think insurers trawl the internet. However I don't think it would be best practise to post all the details if you are trying it on.
In answer to your question. Yes I did quote the points/ban - in the last 5 years. Using the same logic as your post (I'm not trying to be rude - but this is how I see it). I should give them points which I don't have to declare as to not do so is taking the piss?
My point is that they asked for the date on the back of my card. I actually think you are alright. But I don't see how I've done anything wrong by answering the questions using the guidance given.
Are we getting into drink driving and Rehabilitation of Offenders territory? IIRC you have a criminal past too. If so was this declared?
I'm not having a pop at you, but this hole you've dug could be too deep to get out of. Whether I'm OK or not is moot btw.
LoonR1 said:
They asked when you got your current licence. That's pretty obvious which date you should be giving. Declaring the ban may help you as that at least shows you've not forgotten everything. At no point have I suggested declaring points behind the dates they ask.
Are we getting into drink driving and Rehabilitation of Offenders territory? IIRC you have a criminal past too. If so was this declared?
I'm not having a pop at you, but this hole you've dug could be too deep to get out of. Whether I'm OK or not is moot btw.
No not drink driving. Driving fast enough to be made to redo my test and a ban. They made me do a longer more expensive test actually. Are we getting into drink driving and Rehabilitation of Offenders territory? IIRC you have a criminal past too. If so was this declared?
I'm not having a pop at you, but this hole you've dug could be too deep to get out of. Whether I'm OK or not is moot btw.
And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
I have to say Loon - I know only enough to be nothing but dangerous. But I'm reading the FOS website and notes. And I don't think I have done a thing wrong. They asked a question and I answered it as asked. How they could blame me for asking the wrong questions is beyond me.
My only bit of confusion is that I answered the questions on a comparison site. I then just click click clicked and put my debit card details in. There may have been some small print on my insurers side. I'll find out in the next couple of days if it will be a drama or not. If it is it's my own fault.
photosnob said:
No not drink driving. Driving fast enough to be made to redo my test and a ban. They made me do a longer more expensive test actually.
Was the conviction for speeding, or for careless (or dangerous?) driving?photosnob said:
And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
So you've not told them about the conviction and ban, despite them asking about all convictions within the last five years?photosnob said:
No not drink driving. Driving fast enough to be made to redo my test and a ban. They made me do a longer more expensive test actually.
And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
I have to say Loon - I know only enough to be nothing but dangerous. But I'm reading the FOS website and notes. And I don't think I have done a thing wrong. They asked a question and I answered it as asked. How they could blame me for asking the wrong questions is beyond me.
My only bit of confusion is that I answered the questions on a comparison site. I then just click click clicked and put my debit card details in. There may have been some small print on my insurers side. I'll find out in the next couple of days if it will be a drama or not. If it is it's my own fault.
You don't declare spent convictions, that's fine and accepted practice. And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
I have to say Loon - I know only enough to be nothing but dangerous. But I'm reading the FOS website and notes. And I don't think I have done a thing wrong. They asked a question and I answered it as asked. How they could blame me for asking the wrong questions is beyond me.
My only bit of confusion is that I answered the questions on a comparison site. I then just click click clicked and put my debit card details in. There may have been some small print on my insurers side. I'll find out in the next couple of days if it will be a drama or not. If it is it's my own fault.
I don't know whether you've done anything wrong, only you know that. However, if you don't think you have then why the nervousness around this? Just let them see your licence.
Your argument around questions and process is poor. Firstly the questions on a comparison website are often even more precise than the insurers, as they have to ask it in such a way to satisfy the strictest insurer. Secondly, you don't buy directly after selecting a quote, you go through several more levels including T&Cs.
You are choosing to read the FOS website how you want to. I could argue deliberate or reckless with ease based on your comments on this thread alone if I wanted to.
TooMany2cvs said:
photosnob said:
No not drink driving. Driving fast enough to be made to redo my test and a ban. They made me do a longer more expensive test actually.
Was the conviction for speeding, or for careless (or dangerous?) driving?photosnob said:
And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
So you've not told them about the conviction and ban, despite them asking about all convictions within the last five years?I did tell them about the ban and conviction actually. What I didn't tell them about was points which were not required or other things I was not required to tell them about.
photosnob said:
TooMany2cvs said:
photosnob said:
No not drink driving. Driving fast enough to be made to redo my test and a ban. They made me do a longer more expensive test actually.
Was the conviction for speeding, or for careless (or dangerous?) driving?photosnob said:
And Loon - you are correct I have got a now spent criminal record. Fortunately for me the offences I've been convicted off are/were spent at the time this policy was taken out. The government changed the laws which helped me out.
So you've not told them about the conviction and ban, despite them asking about all convictions within the last five years?I did tell them about the ban and conviction actually. What I didn't tell them about was points which were not required or other things I was not required to tell them about.
You don't get points and a ban either.
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