Discussion
WinkleHoff said:
I undertook some quick research but couldn't find any of the policies you refer to. Could you point me in the right direction?
Regarding Islam, that is a debate for another thread really. However, the scripture mandates violence in numerous places, so I'm sorry but there is a problem with Islam itself, however much we might want delude ourself that there is not. I'm not saying there aren't peaceful Muslims; there are. However, once Islam takes hold, it reverts to type. Wholly Islamic countries exhibit the abhorrent things I describe, so are they all "fundamentalist". No, they are just Islamic. There is good reason for concern.
Feel free to browse their Facebook page and website - you'll see plenty of posts by them which give their views on Islam. You'll notice they never condemn white child abusers, for some strange reason. Regarding Islam, that is a debate for another thread really. However, the scripture mandates violence in numerous places, so I'm sorry but there is a problem with Islam itself, however much we might want delude ourself that there is not. I'm not saying there aren't peaceful Muslims; there are. However, once Islam takes hold, it reverts to type. Wholly Islamic countries exhibit the abhorrent things I describe, so are they all "fundamentalist". No, they are just Islamic. There is good reason for concern.
Parts of their scripture may advocate violence, but so does the Bible.
Most muslims are like the majority of Christians - they follow the general principles of their holy books, but not every single word. The vast majority of Muslims condemn violence and are very much of the view that IS (who have carried out many of the crimes you mention) are not true Muslims.
Thanks, I'll take a look. However, just because non Muslim paedophiles are not condemned, does not mean they are condoned. The issue I have is how the authorities ignored/covered up such crimes due to fear of opening a can of worms/offending "local sensitivities" etc.
I'm sorry but I'm not swayed on the Islam point. There are more UK Muslims that would like to see Sharia than is comfortable. Fact is Islamic countries display all you need to know. I have a Muslim friend who had to leave his Islamic home country (he is gay). He is quite certain that Islam needs to an age of enlightenment in the same way that Christianity did. Sorry for going off topic.
I'm sorry but I'm not swayed on the Islam point. There are more UK Muslims that would like to see Sharia than is comfortable. Fact is Islamic countries display all you need to know. I have a Muslim friend who had to leave his Islamic home country (he is gay). He is quite certain that Islam needs to an age of enlightenment in the same way that Christianity did. Sorry for going off topic.
WinkleHoff said:
Thanks, I'll take a look. However, just because non Muslim paedophiles are not condemned, does not mean they are condoned. The issue I have is how the authorities ignored/covered up such crimes due to fear of opening a can of worms/offending "local sensitivities" etc.
I'm sorry but I'm not swayed on the Islam point. There are more UK Muslims that would like to see Sharia than is comfortable. Fact is Islamic countries display all you need to know. I have a Muslim friend who had to leave his Islamic home country (he is gay). He is quite certain that Islam needs to an age of enlightenment in the same way that Christianity did. Sorry for going off topic.
Try posting on their Facebook page and ask if their RCO is a convicted paedophile? Your post will be deleted and you'll be banned within minutes. They've even configured the filter to block his name from being posted on their pages.I'm sorry but I'm not swayed on the Islam point. There are more UK Muslims that would like to see Sharia than is comfortable. Fact is Islamic countries display all you need to know. I have a Muslim friend who had to leave his Islamic home country (he is gay). He is quite certain that Islam needs to an age of enlightenment in the same way that Christianity did. Sorry for going off topic.
Or ask them how much they've donated to Help For Heroes - they've claimed to collect funds for them in the past, but H4H have confirmed they've not received anything from them.
Yep, many Muslim countries have laws against homosexuality, then again so do some Christian ones. Equally, some Muslim countries have no laws against it at all.
Just pointing out that not all Muslims are the same or share the same views, just like any other groups of people.
I'm not denying there are problems with some Muslims. I just happen to think that it's not all of them, unlike Britain First.
For example, they keep on about groups trying to impose Sharia law and posting reports/videos of Sharia Patrols. However, a few minutes research shows they're old videos, the people responsible were condemned by local Muslims and were also stopped from carrying out their actions by the police.
rscott said:
Yep, many Muslim countries have laws against homosexuality, then again so do some Christian ones. Equally, some Muslim countries have no laws against it at all.
Just pointing out that not all Muslims are the same or share the same views, just like any other groups of people.
I'm not denying there are problems with some Muslims. I just happen to think that it's not all of them, unlike Britain First.
I think the clash between Islam and progressive Western values is, unfortunately, the crux of the problem and a far deeper-rooted than you state.Just pointing out that not all Muslims are the same or share the same views, just like any other groups of people.
I'm not denying there are problems with some Muslims. I just happen to think that it's not all of them, unlike Britain First.
The freedom of women to be educated, vote, work, drive, be independent is culturally at odds with a lot of immigrant group, but non more so than certain Muslims. As for tolerance of sexual differences, that is frankly zero.
All that said, I cannot condone Britain First, even if I can sympathise with some of those who are drawn to it.
Mr_B said:
WinkleHoff said:
I have a Muslim friend ...he is gay
That's like a black guy trying to love the KKK, no ?
)There are 'rumours' of well known Arab Royalty being gay.
I think the issue is not that all Muslims are sexist homophobes, but rather that the broader religion appears either to have little room for inclusivity and tolerance, or perhaps simply has yet to see the reforms that Christianity has gone through.
Yahweh needs to do a Zeus. Seriously.
Its utterly crazy that half (or more) the worlds population believe in the same deity, yet have spilled insane amounts of blood arguing about which way to worship it. And all that without any real proof of its existence; and plenty that shows there is no need for its existence.
Britain First are a nasty little organisation, and aught to be kept in check. I usually send the Another Angry Voice link to anyone who shares their stuff, telling them to read up on Britain First. I doubt they actually read it, but I think the fact someone takes the time to message them to protest about something they've shared has a certain shock value.
Its utterly crazy that half (or more) the worlds population believe in the same deity, yet have spilled insane amounts of blood arguing about which way to worship it. And all that without any real proof of its existence; and plenty that shows there is no need for its existence.
Britain First are a nasty little organisation, and aught to be kept in check. I usually send the Another Angry Voice link to anyone who shares their stuff, telling them to read up on Britain First. I doubt they actually read it, but I think the fact someone takes the time to message them to protest about something they've shared has a certain shock value.
triggerh4ppy said:
These groups always remind me of this interview. Pretty much shows the collective IQ of these people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M
Thick as a whale omelette, like all his sort - though the jokes about "muslamic ray guns" seem to have dried up a bit, post-Rotherham.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M
otolith said:
Thick as a whale omelette, like all his sort - though the jokes about "muslamic ray guns" seem to have dried up a bit, post-Rotherham.
Quite, play the ball not the man.He might not be the sharpest tool, but as we all now know, what he and others were trying to emphasise was quashed by the PC system, to the cost of a great many victims.
Digga said:
otolith said:
Thick as a whale omelette, like all his sort - though the jokes about "muslamic ray guns" seem to have dried up a bit, post-Rotherham.
Quite, play the ball not the man.He might not be the sharpest tool, but as we all now know, what he and others were trying to emphasise was quashed by the PC system, to the cost of a great many victims.
All weaponry, Muslamic or whatever, should be destroyed by fire; I'd throw the f
kers into the furnace myself.But we cant single out one lot. The other's equally overlooked by all and sundry.
Off topic somewhat, I was chatting to a prison officer last night and he mentioned one certain religion looked to be taking over a lot of UK prisons... he didn't get a chance to elaborate but mentioned a kind of 'forced initiation' was commonplace. Certainly worth a Google.
Edited by HewManHeMan on Thursday 1st October 18:50
Edited by HewManHeMan on Thursday 1st October 18:54
WinkleHoff said:
Fact is Islamic countries display all you need to know.
Think about Burma. Think about Russia. Think about China. Think about the Yugoslavia. Think about Rwanda. Think about the dictatorships of South and Central America.Do you think there is a general problem with Christians because various Orthodox churches supported aggressive nationslism that led to genocide in the former Yugoslavia?
Do you think Christians are dangerously supportive of throwing drugged political opponents into the South Atlantic?
Are Buddhist monks all mad nationalists?
Are atheists all totalitarian nationalist communists?
When you look at Islamic states you ought to recognise their colossal diversity. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and the most populous by some margin yet one that usually gets overlooked in these discussions, Indonesia.
So when you look at those countries, I'd be intrigued to see what failings they have in common that clearly have their roots in Islam and which can't be found in any other country or attributed to any other religion. I predict that you'll struggle.
Yes I did. I agreed with some of their views but not all. Their methods won't do them any favours either and I doubt they'll get very far. The other guy was much more interesting, in a suit and having a pop at Farage. I could agree with his views and arguments. He properly upset the interviewer when being interviewed at the market place in Luton, lol.
I found the documentary on monday night was much better and the female black interviewer was appalled to find she held racist views against black people. I didn't like the way she tried to blame it on the media she'd watched over the years.
I found the documentary on monday night was much better and the female black interviewer was appalled to find she held racist views against black people. I didn't like the way she tried to blame it on the media she'd watched over the years.
Boosted LS1 said:
Yes I did. I agreed with some of their views but not all. Their methods won't do them any favours either and I doubt they'll get very far. The other guy was much more interesting, in a suit and having a pop at Farage. I could agree with his views and arguments. He properly upset the interviewer when being interviewed at the market place in Luton, lol.
I found the documentary on monday night was much better and the female black interviewer was appalled to find she held racist views against black people. I didn't like the way she tried to blame it on the media she'd watched over the years.
I think you saw a different programme.I found the documentary on monday night was much better and the female black interviewer was appalled to find she held racist views against black people. I didn't like the way she tried to blame it on the media she'd watched over the years.
You watched "Is Britain Racist?" but the programme specifically about Britain First was called "'We Want Our Country Back".
andymc said:
Did anyone see this last night on BBC3?
Yes, fking imbeciles, if you're a right wing party who hold those sort of views and the Anti fascist league don't even bother to turn up at your events then you know you're and irrelevance. That said it was quite disturbing the way the turned on the film maker for apparently no reason.
I don't do facebook, are these people really that prevalent on there?
HewManHeMan said:
FredClogs said:
andymc said:
Did anyone see this last night on BBC3?
I don't do facebook, are these people really that prevalent on there? Thought last night's programme was a pretty fair report on the 'registered political party' . Showed their veneer of respectability is extremely fragile, without needing to touch on their leader's various criminal convictions (harrassment, wearing a political uniform, etc), or even their abuse of the poppy emblem.
Monday's programme was interesting too - their undercover filming especially.
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