RE: Porsche 928: Catch it while you can
Discussion
Just returned yesterday from DN13 at The Ring in my 230K mile S4 Manual. Never even opened my toolkit.
I would have preferred to be there in my Cerbera but it was sulking so had to go in the backup car.
Everyone who went out with me seemed genuinely surprised at how competent the car was, although I'm sure that was helped by fitting a new set of Bilsteins, supplied by Roger of 928sRUS for just $928 - bargain.
It's not really a track car, but it is very comfortable and surprisingly agile, and the hatchback makes it incredibly practical.
Of course I'll never sell my car, why would I? Despite the current 928 hype this high mileage example has no real value, except to me.
I would have preferred to be there in my Cerbera but it was sulking so had to go in the backup car.
Everyone who went out with me seemed genuinely surprised at how competent the car was, although I'm sure that was helped by fitting a new set of Bilsteins, supplied by Roger of 928sRUS for just $928 - bargain.
It's not really a track car, but it is very comfortable and surprisingly agile, and the hatchback makes it incredibly practical.
Of course I'll never sell my car, why would I? Despite the current 928 hype this high mileage example has no real value, except to me.
ukkid35 said:
Just returned yesterday from DN13 at The Ring in my 230K mile S4 Manual. Never even opened my toolkit.
I would have preferred to be there in my Cerbera but it was sulking so had to go in the backup car.
Everyone who went out with me seemed genuinely surprised at how competent the car was, although I'm sure that was helped by fitting a new set of Bilsteins, supplied by Roger of 928sRUS for just $928 - bargain.
It's not really a track car, but it is very comfortable and surprisingly agile, and the hatchback makes it incredibly practical.
Of course I'll never sell my car, why would I? Despite the current 928 hype this high mileage example has no real value, except to me.
Looks splendid - and yes - they really munch up the miles without bother.I would have preferred to be there in my Cerbera but it was sulking so had to go in the backup car.
Everyone who went out with me seemed genuinely surprised at how competent the car was, although I'm sure that was helped by fitting a new set of Bilsteins, supplied by Roger of 928sRUS for just $928 - bargain.
It's not really a track car, but it is very comfortable and surprisingly agile, and the hatchback makes it incredibly practical.
Of course I'll never sell my car, why would I? Despite the current 928 hype this high mileage example has no real value, except to me.
Good to see you had a dry 'Ring - was torrential rain for us
998420 said:
A friends dad has one sitting around, the engine is meant to be fine, but the car has been sat for ages. It smells of money pit as a restoration, so I was wondering if it was worth buying to break, or are there so many in this state and comparatively few owners looking for second hand parts that it is not worth doing ?
Depends what needs doing to it, they're not that complex, the body is galvanised so rust shouldn't be too much of an issue... it could well be restorable...I didn't realise how much the price has increased. When I saw this in Hexagon Classics : http://hexagonclassics.com/cars/1990-porsche-928-5...
I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
simonrockman said:
I didn't realise how much the price has increased. When I saw this in Hexagon Classics : http://hexagonclassics.com/cars/1990-porsche-928-5...
I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
Hexagon specialise in "market leading" prices.I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
simonrockman said:
I didn't realise how much the price has increased. When I saw this in Hexagon Classics : http://hexagonclassics.com/cars/1990-porsche-928-5...
I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
Showroom cars are obviously mint ultra-low mileage although several similar have sold privately circa £45K - £50K this year. Seems the collector POV is rare manual GT & GTS, which also pulls the autos along.I thought the price was £6k, and it was the cheapest thing in the showroom. I looked again, it was £60k - and they have an auto for £54k.
Simon
I rate the GT as much fun as a 308 GTB, but quicker and almost half the cost
loafer123 said:
If anyone is interested in the 928, there is an annual meeting of around 40 cars on the village green in Tilford, Surrey this Saturday from 11:30.
I would have been there, but I was at The Ring in my 928 insteadhttp://vimeo.com/141477057
R400TVR said:
Love the GTS and would still buy one now if funds allowed.
A GTS is a bit of a gamble, the extra capacity was generated by increasing the stroke, and squishing the pistons, which subsequently caused horrible oil consumption issues on some cars. Seems like an unnecessary compromise to me.However the 6.5L strokers in the US are really something, the torque they generate is very impressive, if Carlos Hernandez' car is anything to go by.
For those who don´t like the standard rear there is an alternative, the Nordstadt Kombi :
http://www.weinkath-carwheels.de/classic/porsche_9...
http://www.weinkath-carwheels.de/classic/porsche_9...
ukkid35 said:
R400TVR said:
Love the GTS and would still buy one now if funds allowed.
A GTS is a bit of a gamble, the extra capacity was generated by increasing the stroke, and squishing the pistons, which subsequently caused horrible oil consumption issues on some cars. Seems like an unnecessary compromise to me.However the 6.5L strokers in the US are really something, the torque they generate is very impressive, if Carlos Hernandez' car is anything to go by.
It does have a nasty petrol habit, though....!
loafer123 said:
Not all of them - mine has a replacement liner engine from Porsche and barely drinks a drop of oil.
It does have a nasty petrol habit, though....!
The trick is to make sure you have a liner engine, some engines were retrofitted under warranty, some were not.It does have a nasty petrol habit, though....!
Alex said that Porsche did the following:
Cheburator mk2 said:
- Change the connecting rods from 1R to 2R sometimes in MY1994 and also stipulated that if ever the crankcase is opened, all 8 rods should be changed to the newer type on earlier GTSs.
- Changed the crank case breather system on top of the cylinder heads in an attempt to cure high oil consumption for MY1994. As a matter of fact it made the problem worse.
- Changed the piston design twice - in 1993 and in 1995, also ring design was changed yet again in an effort to cure oil consumption. The last design alongside an Alusil liner worked, the earlier 1993MY change did not.
- Changed the crank case breather system on top of the cylinder heads in an attempt to cure high oil consumption for MY1994. As a matter of fact it made the problem worse.
- Changed the piston design twice - in 1993 and in 1995, also ring design was changed yet again in an effort to cure oil consumption. The last design alongside an Alusil liner worked, the earlier 1993MY change did not.
There's a lot going on in this thread. These are my thoughts.
(1) Why do so many contributors have to state their opinions in such contentious and extreme terms? Whether a car is good looking or not is a matter of supreme subjectivity. To state that the opinion that the 928 adds nothing to our stock of knowledge; and is laughably judgmental because, obviously, for every person who finds it unattractive, about ten seem to adore it.
(2) Why do so many contributors have to take the debate so personally? Disagreement is interesting when ventilated in moderate terms but this super-defensive/aggressive slanging match that always seems to result is tiresome.
(3) At the Porsche Museum, Porsche itself describes the 928 as "the perfect car" and expresses sorrow at its demise.
(4) The depth of quality in the design and manufacture of the 928 is readily apparent. It was so far ahead of its time that it is still a modern car. In period, it offered performance which was almost beyond comprehension (it was the fastest series production car at one point) with the roadability and reliability of a Mercedes 190E. Its competitors were barely useable on a good day; yet many 928s were (and remain) daily drivers racking up tens of thousands of miles a year.
(5) The 928 represents a golden age of motoring which is lost to us. There is no modern 928. Once upon a time, fortunate people used cars such as the 928 to cover long distances at high speed in safety. These were the days before intercity air travel. Panameras are used to go between the home on the executive development and the office on the ring road; 991s are used to park outside gyms; and Boxsters are used to go to the shops. Nobody drives to Paris anymore. And nobody drives to Paris at 150mph anymore. More is the pity. The 928 was a serious tool as well as a status symbol. Today's Panamera is just a status symbol. That's why most of them are diesels: people care about the show and not the go.
(6) The young timer classic car market is a bubble waiting to burst. You know that when you start reading articles which say, "get in now before you miss your chance" and "this one is guaranteed to appreciate". You also know it when dealers you had never heard of last year and who have no mechanical expertise start hawking cars for three times what they were offered at last year.
(7) It is not a matter of spotting the cars that going to be highly valued by tomorrow's market. It is a matter of picking the time to buy. We all knew what the good cars were (M635 CSI, E28 M5, 928, air-cooled 911, r107 and c126 Mercedes-Benz, Audi ur quattro, Ferrari 308/328 and so on). What many of us didn't know in 2008 was that they would be worth five times as much by 2015.
Personally, I love the 928 and I love the romance of its time. I love its pure and unadorned shape. I love its long-legged capabilities. I love that it seats four with luggage. Love that it is a grown up car. I can think of little better than running down from Geneva to Lyon late one summer Thursday evening for dinner at Paul Bocuse's restaurant, attractive companion by my side, something decent on the tape player, the wheel of a really nice S4 in one hand, car and driver untaxed at 120mph. Although the sun might get in my eyes, I suppose.
(1) Why do so many contributors have to state their opinions in such contentious and extreme terms? Whether a car is good looking or not is a matter of supreme subjectivity. To state that the opinion that the 928 adds nothing to our stock of knowledge; and is laughably judgmental because, obviously, for every person who finds it unattractive, about ten seem to adore it.
(2) Why do so many contributors have to take the debate so personally? Disagreement is interesting when ventilated in moderate terms but this super-defensive/aggressive slanging match that always seems to result is tiresome.
(3) At the Porsche Museum, Porsche itself describes the 928 as "the perfect car" and expresses sorrow at its demise.
(4) The depth of quality in the design and manufacture of the 928 is readily apparent. It was so far ahead of its time that it is still a modern car. In period, it offered performance which was almost beyond comprehension (it was the fastest series production car at one point) with the roadability and reliability of a Mercedes 190E. Its competitors were barely useable on a good day; yet many 928s were (and remain) daily drivers racking up tens of thousands of miles a year.
(5) The 928 represents a golden age of motoring which is lost to us. There is no modern 928. Once upon a time, fortunate people used cars such as the 928 to cover long distances at high speed in safety. These were the days before intercity air travel. Panameras are used to go between the home on the executive development and the office on the ring road; 991s are used to park outside gyms; and Boxsters are used to go to the shops. Nobody drives to Paris anymore. And nobody drives to Paris at 150mph anymore. More is the pity. The 928 was a serious tool as well as a status symbol. Today's Panamera is just a status symbol. That's why most of them are diesels: people care about the show and not the go.
(6) The young timer classic car market is a bubble waiting to burst. You know that when you start reading articles which say, "get in now before you miss your chance" and "this one is guaranteed to appreciate". You also know it when dealers you had never heard of last year and who have no mechanical expertise start hawking cars for three times what they were offered at last year.
(7) It is not a matter of spotting the cars that going to be highly valued by tomorrow's market. It is a matter of picking the time to buy. We all knew what the good cars were (M635 CSI, E28 M5, 928, air-cooled 911, r107 and c126 Mercedes-Benz, Audi ur quattro, Ferrari 308/328 and so on). What many of us didn't know in 2008 was that they would be worth five times as much by 2015.
Personally, I love the 928 and I love the romance of its time. I love its pure and unadorned shape. I love its long-legged capabilities. I love that it seats four with luggage. Love that it is a grown up car. I can think of little better than running down from Geneva to Lyon late one summer Thursday evening for dinner at Paul Bocuse's restaurant, attractive companion by my side, something decent on the tape player, the wheel of a really nice S4 in one hand, car and driver untaxed at 120mph. Although the sun might get in my eyes, I suppose.
Edited by r129sl on Sunday 11th October 11:55
TheInternet said:
r129sl said:
(1) Why do so many contributors have to state their opinions in such contentious and extreme terms?
(3) Porsche itself describes the 928 as "the perfect car".
Hmmm (3) Porsche itself describes the 928 as "the perfect car".
Edited by r129sl on Sunday 11th October 13:32
r129sl said:
(5) The 928 represents a golden age of motoring which is lost to us. There is no modern 928. Once upon a time, fortunate people used cars such as the 928 to cover long distances at high speed in safety. These were the days before intercity air travel. Panameras are used to go between the home on the executive development and the office on the ring road; 991s are used to park outside gyms; and Boxsters are used to go to the shops. Nobody drives to Paris anymore. And nobody drives to Paris at 150mph anymore. More is the pity. The 928 was a serious tool as well as a status symbol. Today's Panamera is just a status symbol. That's why most of them are diesels: people care about the show and not the go.
^^this^^Edited by r129sl on Sunday 11th October 11:55
my two favourite Grand Tourers are the 928 and 365 Daytona. While I've only taken a Daytona to the British coastline, I've been fortunate enough to have the luxury of time enough to take the 928 from London to Menton, Marseille and beyond. Either thundering down the motorway or snaking through the Alps, particularly the N202, it really is a treat. Bumped up outside a French restaurant it also proves an aesthetic treat for passing pedestrians. Many stop for closer inspection, followed by praise. They don't break, and just keep giving. Women like them too as they always comment on its comfort level. Can't really ask for more.
PomBstard said:
Rode past my local front-engined Porsche specialist only two days ago - haven't been past in a while - and there was what seemed to be an unusually high proportion of 928s around there. Often I'll see 3-4 944s, a brace or so of 968s and one or 2 928s. This time of the 7-8 cars there, all but 2 were 928s. And they do look good, even in white... 
Could you tell us who this front engine specialist is? I'm looking for one for my '91 S4. It's still parked in Madrid , but soon will come over to Bucks. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff