RE: Model X marks the spot

RE: Model X marks the spot

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Discussion

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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otolith said:
I think Tesla have moved the game on from electric cars being a sack cloth and ashes exercise for hippies. For a large, luxury car, outstanding acceleration and mechanical refinement are real pluses. I would have a Tesla for what it is, not because it doesn't have an ICE.
Not sure about that. Aren't there plenty of petrol cars at the money that would tick all the boxes and not have a primary school design?!

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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I like the design of the Model S. The model X is a big ugly thing, like everything else in that class, and also like everything else in that class, I've no use for it.

Point was that Teslas appeal in their own right, most electric cars appeal only on negatives (doesn't emit x, y, z).

98elise

26,381 posts

160 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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ORD said:
98elise said:
Why would you be amazed when thats exactly what real world figures are. If a manufacturer says their car can get 30mpg would you be amazed if it got 25mpg?

The 85kWh pack gets you around 260 real world miles against 300 in the sales blurb. Owners have managed 450miles if you want to go for maximum range, but thats when just considering economy, ie far removed from real driving.

The 90kWh pack is about 300miles at motorway speeds (60-70) which is not being particularly efficient. Peak efficiency is below 30mph. I would expect the 90kWh to get closer to 500 miles on an economy run, but again thats not real world in any way.
60-70 on the motorway proves my point entirely. It's like saying you can get 35mpg out of an M5. Of course you can if you only use the power once in a blue moon and drive it like a 1.6 TDI.

A claimed 30mpg would see about 22, if that.
Motorway speeds wasn't chosed as an efficient speed, as its not.

I'll put it another way an average car consumes about 0.3kWh to travel a mile. Thats energy lost to rolling resistance, and air resistance. EV's lose very little to the drive train so its the same regardless of the peak power available. At motorway speeds air resistance is greater, hence the drop in efficiency.

Your M5 example is also consuming energy in the same way, but ICE's also bleed energy just to run (extra losses). Also as we all know larger more poweful engines consume more energy even if you drive them slowly. This is because ICE's lose so much energy just by running. The more poweful the engine the worse they are.

Thats why you will never get an ICE supercar with supermini mpg. The 700bhp Tesla will however consume the same energy as a 400bhp Tesla in like for like driving.

Thats simple physics.


ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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Not really my point, but I don't disagree smile

twoblacklines

1,575 posts

160 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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twoblacklines said:
I would love a Tesla, my problem is I live in Cornwall and although moving to Cheshire....there are no charging stations in Cornwall and very little in Cheshire.
We are british, so the fact that superchargers are free but our home electricity is not free means owners will charge at Superchargers all day long just to stick their finger up at "the big corporations".

This won't work in Britain there will not be enough free Superchargers.

Raitzi

640 posts

211 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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I don't understand purpose of this model. It still costs too much and does not look like it can really do any off-roading. Why would you buy this over regular model S?

AnotherClarkey

3,589 posts

188 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Raitzi said:
I don't understand purpose of this model. It still costs too much and does not look like it can really do any off-roading. Why would you buy this over regular model S?
For starters - seats 7 adults instead of 5, tows more than 2 tonnes instead of nothing, larger boots (I think I read somewhere that even the frunk can take 2 golf bags), higher driving position which many prefer.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Raitzi said:
I don't understand purpose of this model. It still costs too much and does not look like it can really do any off-roading. Why would you buy this over regular model S?
The same reason people buy an X5 over a 5-series or any other SUV over any other broadly similar saloon/estate.

98elise

26,381 posts

160 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Raitzi said:
I don't understand purpose of this model. It still costs too much and does not look like it can really do any off-roading. Why would you buy this over regular model S?
I would imagine its the proper 7 seats, and towing abilities over the S.

Most expensive SUV's don't ever go off road.

I'd be interested to see how it copes off road though. Its a very different drivetrain to an ICE 4x4. The abilty to dirve each axle independantly would be useful, but I don't know if it has any form of LSD between the axles.

stuart-b

3,643 posts

225 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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bodhi said:
Agreed. Not sure if I get the innovation aspect either, as the car itself is just a stload of laptop batteries hooked up to a couple of oversized Scalextric motors.
Guvernator said:
I agree the technology isn't exactly ground-breaking, however the fact that someone has had a go at putting it all together in a package that is viable, including the support infrastructure is.
Wow you two must have already made these types of cars or be fully qualified auto architects to make such statements ...

bencollins said:
2.5t family car does 0-60 in 3.2secs and it gets described as OTT hype or a pub bore statistic.
Steam traction carthorse hybrids are the future flat earthers!
Ignorance is bliss eh?

This is the first SUV that I would consider owning. They are normally hateful things, the same economy as my car, massively expensive stupid tyres/wheel combos, but you're driving around in a bus. This car offers the ability to tow huge amounts of weight, take 7 people, all the luggage and it's the most safe SUV on the market by a huge margin. Did you see the pole test and side impact results? The fact that this car is the safest place to be is a huge plus. Did you not see the 3.2 seconds 0-60 ? That is a game changer.

Fact is that if you are a family travelling down to the coast, or shopping, visiting friends, need to take a group of people out, this is a great car. You want safe and easy transport which this provides. If I want the thrills of petrol I'll keep my existing roadster.

I hypothesise we are nearing the end of the fad which is the 3 to 5 litre, 15 mpg, + 22 inch wheels SUV market space, or stupid V12 diesel bus.

The only issue are the Super Chargers which will be resolved, ultimately, that's a small issue in the grand scheme of things.

Edited by stuart-b on Sunday 4th October 16:45

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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I agree that it's an awesome package. Performance is completely irrelevant to me, but I imagine it will sell a few more by being bonkers fast.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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ORD said:
I agree that it's an awesome package. Performance is completely irrelevant to me, but I imagine it will sell a few more by being bonkers fast.
Yeah, nobody needs it to be that fast, 7/8 sec to sixty is plenty fast enough for that kind of car for most owners but its kind of a side benefit, there isnt much in the way of compromise for it to be that quick, there will be loads of owners that never use that much performance.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
ORD said:
I agree that it's an awesome package. Performance is completely irrelevant to me, but I imagine it will sell a few more by being bonkers fast.
Yeah, nobody needs it to be that fast, 7/8 sec to sixty is plenty fast enough for that kind of car for most owners but its kind of a side benefit, there isnt much in the way of compromise for it to be that quick, there will be loads of owners that never use that much performance.
Exactly. There is no big downside, I would have thought, to making it that fast. I doubt it adds much weight, or at least not much in the context of a 2.5 ton family bus. It's hardly like you have to use a V12 and then suffer the fuel economy, etc.

so called

9,074 posts

208 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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257 miles would get me to Dover with 7 miles to spare.
Only another 500 miles to the office.

Would work for my wife though.

Raitzi

640 posts

211 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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AnotherClarkey said:
For starters - seats 7 adults instead of 5, tows more than 2 tonnes instead of nothing, larger boots (I think I read somewhere that even the frunk can take 2 golf bags), higher driving position which many prefer.
Model S has 7 seats. I bet model S could also tow just as fine as motor is the same.

AnotherClarkey

3,589 posts

188 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Raitzi said:
AnotherClarkey said:
For starters - seats 7 adults instead of 5, tows more than 2 tonnes instead of nothing, larger boots (I think I read somewhere that even the frunk can take 2 golf bags), higher driving position which many prefer.
Model S has 7 seats. I bet model S could also tow just as fine as motor is the same.
Model S has two kiddy seats in the boot, not suitable for adults. It isn't homologated for towing so you can't legally tow anything with it.

Tayne

36 posts

136 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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twoblacklines said:
I would love a Tesla, my problem is I live in Cornwall and although moving to Cheshire....there are no charging stations in Cornwall and very little in Cheshire.
Are you just talking about Tesla's own Superchargers?

Because a Tesla can be charged from a public Chademo charger in about two hours.
Have a look at the zap map to find out where the public chargers are.

https://www.zap-map.com/charger-search/?pc=chester...


Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

178 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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AnotherClarkey said:
Model S has two kiddy seats in the boot, not suitable for adults. It isn't homologated for towing so you can't legally tow anything with it.
That's annoying. I didn't know that. It would be a lot more attractive to me if they had bothered going to the trouble of type approving it for towing. I really like them but I don't want a car that can't tow.

OddJoe

1,548 posts

185 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Uncle John said:
Fairy muff.
I've always said this as Furry Muff...

Just saying'.
smile

bencollins

Original Poster:

3,486 posts

204 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Ferrari's best effort admittedly from 5 years ago is slower.
"These two track-only cars were supplemented with the 599 GTO, only the third car from Ferrari to wear this iconic badge. The GTO cost £305,676 and came with a top speed of 208mph. It also 680hp and is 100kg lighter than a standard GTB model, so 0-62mph comes up in 3.3 seconds."
Wonder what range that car has for its £100 fill ups.