Another US Campus mass shooting.

[anonymous-user]

Another 3 dead yesterday including one old guy just trying to keep kids safe.
http://www.ibtimes.com/florida-shooting-3-killed-i...

5 more shot the day before in a shopping mall in Baltimore.
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/multiple-people-shot-in...

What the fk is wrong with you people?! Someone does something you don't like and you go on a fking rampage. But yeah, you'll never take my gat, limey. Suck my cock and fear my Glock.

America, fk yeah.

[Corpulent Tosser]

creampuff said:

cookie118 said:

Number 1 pays for number 2?

I'm trying to get away from the idea of ban them or take them, so why not buy them? And as above you've got to start somewhere!

OK, I don't agree with your idea, but at least you have come up with an idea which doesn't involve just laughing at fat Americans while telling them they are dumbasses, which is a substantial improvement on the rest of this thread.

Say you have a handgun which currently sells for $500, which is a typical handgun price. You jack the price to $2000 by taxing it, which means the government gets $1500 in revenue. This reduces the number of people who can afford to buy one.

You then also offer to buy back that same model of handgun for $4000, double what it costs to buy it. The govt is down $2500 on the whole trade, assuming the government also destroys the handgun so it has no residual value.

What stops people from doing an arbitrage, just buying one then selling it. If you impose a minimum period of ownership to stop this from happening, then that will just encourage those who can afford the upfront payment to buy a "handgun bond" They buy a handgun for $2000, put it under the bed, then sell it to the government after 5 years or whatever the minimum ownership period is for $4000. Not a bad rate of return and guaranteed by the US Government.

I'd buy loads of guns!!!

Edited by creampuff on Monday 5th October 21:00

The government wouldn't have to offer more than the new price though, in fact it would be stupid to do so, you sell and old gun to the government and use the money to go buy two new guns.
No, the possible answer would be triple or quadruple the price of all but genuine hunting rifles.
I have lost track of the price of guns as it has been so long since I had one but lets say $2000 for a middle price range hand gun, the government would buy a similar weapon for $1500.
The old guns probably only cost a third or less than that so the owners make a nice profit on their old guns.
I was friends with some people who had 20 or more guns, many of which they had never fired, just things they had taken a fancy to at a gun show, many of these could be taken out of circulation.

It may be a drop in the ocean and may not have much effect on gun crime, but it is something I think could be made to work.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It may be extreme, but it's a bloody good suggestion.

[zygalski]

I'm sure American right wingers would respond to that by saying that 99.99999% of gun owners don't go on killing sprees, whereas 100% of those women who have had abortions are murderers.
If PH were based in the US & not the UK then someone would have already posted that. With sincerity.

[Corpulent Tosser]

OpulentBob said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It may be extreme, but it's a bloody good suggestion.

Of all the ideas that people have come up with that is about the most idiotic, does anyone think there is a hope in hell of that happening, I hope not as it would put their sanity in doubt.

[anonymous-user]

Corpulent Tosser said:

OpulentBob said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It may be extreme, but it's a bloody good suggestion.

Of all the ideas that people have come up with that is about the most idiotic, does anyone think there is a hope in hell of that happening, I hope not as it would put their sanity in doubt.

Why? Guns would still be legal, obtainable, and cheap. But it would make gettig them a PITA and may, just may put a different stigma on someone going in and walking out with a gun, 1000 bullets and a bunch of 30-round "clips".

As I've said before, I'm not anti-shooting, but I am very very very anti-mass murder, anti-dead kids, anti-death spree. If someone really wants to shoot, then they can do it. It's an extreme example, but then so is someone having 20 guns and 5000 rounds of ammo in their cupboard because "protection, bud".

The way some Americans are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "There's no problem with the laws as they are la la la la guns guns guns it's mah right" is not helping find a solution - if anything it's adding to the problem by being so fking ignorant of the issue being addressed (which is, so many dead kids so often).

[AW111]

Regarding creampuff's comments about violent movies :

What I find disturbing is not the violence itself, but the extraordinary number of revenge flicks. The basic premise is that the law is useless, and a man (or woman) just has to revenge themselves / their family.

Once I noticed this, it sticks out like a sore thumb, and I avoid watching them. Personally I think them more disturbing than, say, Pulp Fiction.

Is it just me & mrs AW that think this?

[Corpulent Tosser]

OpulentBob said:

Why? Guns would still be legal, obtainable, and cheap. But it would make gettig them a PITA and may, just may put a different stigma on someone going in and walking out with a gun, 1000 bullets and a bunch of 30-round "clips".

As I've said before, I'm not anti-shooting, but I am very very very anti-mass murder, anti-dead kids, anti-death spree. If someone really wants to shoot, then they can do it. It's an extreme example, but then so is someone having 20 guns and 5000 rounds of ammo in their cupboard because "protection, bud".

The way some Americans are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "There's no problem with the laws as they are la la la la guns guns guns it's mah right" is not helping find a solution - if anything it's adding to the problem by being so fking ignorant of the issue being addressed (which is, so many dead kids so often).

There are a few reasons why I think it is idiotic.
- The people outside abortion clinics are fundamentalist nutters, you would need to find people with the time and inclination to do demonstrations outsdie gun shops - Not going to happen.
- Vast numbers of gun shops would have to be closed, and the livelihood of thousdands of other stores selling guns would be affected - In the land where capitalism is god, not going to happen.
- The gun lobby would never allow it to be introduced and they have friends in high places.
- Even if it were those buying the guns wouldn't give a st about the people with placards outside, they wouldn't care about any stigma attached to buying guns, unlike abortion it is not a minority activity.

I do have an idea though, how about letting Americans decide what they want, what they can live with, I certainly wouldn't welcome people from another country telling me what Britain should do.

[WinstonWolf]

Corpulent Tosser said:

OpulentBob said:

Why? Guns would still be legal, obtainable, and cheap. But it would make gettig them a PITA and may, just may put a different stigma on someone going in and walking out with a gun, 1000 bullets and a bunch of 30-round "clips".

As I've said before, I'm not anti-shooting, but I am very very very anti-mass murder, anti-dead kids, anti-death spree. If someone really wants to shoot, then they can do it. It's an extreme example, but then so is someone having 20 guns and 5000 rounds of ammo in their cupboard because "protection, bud".

The way some Americans are sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "There's no problem with the laws as they are la la la la guns guns guns it's mah right" is not helping find a solution - if anything it's adding to the problem by being so fking ignorant of the issue being addressed (which is, so many dead kids so often).

There are a few reasons why I think it is idiotic.
- The people outside abortion clinics are fundamentalist nutters, you would need to find people with the time and inclination to do demonstrations outsdie gun shops - Not going to happen.
- Vast numbers of gun shops would have to be closed, and the livelihood of thousdands of other stores selling guns would be affected - In the land where capitalism is god, not going to happen.
- The gun lobby would never allow it to be introduced and they have friends in high places.
- Even if it were those buying the guns wouldn't give a st about the people with placards outside, they wouldn't care about any stigma attached to buying guns, unlike abortion it is not a minority activity.

I do have an idea though, how about letting Americans decide what they want, what they can live with, I certainly wouldn't welcome people from another country telling me what Britain should do.

Put a purchase levy on guns and ammunition, spend the money on a mental health screening programme for gun owners. It's not owning guns per-se for me, it's just that the Yanks don't seem to be able to own and use them safely.

[Corpulent Tosser]

WinstonWolf said:

Put a purchase levy on guns and ammunition, spend the money on a mental health screening programme for gun owners. It's not owning guns per-se for me, it's just that the Yanks don't seem to be able to own and use them safely.

Background checks including mental health for anyone wanting to buy a gun would be a sensible idea, it wouldn't take guns out of circulation, nor would it prevent guns falling into the wrong hands, but it is certainly a sensible suggestion.

[anonymous-user]

Corpulent Tosser said:

- The gun lobby would never allow it to be introduced and they have friends in high places.

Firstly on the point about telling another country what they should do, America are pretty experienced at it... Suggesting ways to stop kids being killed is also a pretty constructive thing to do. It's not giving orders or demands, more trying to help. That Americans see it as being demanded to does, really, point to a paranoid culture and a victim mentality - going on the defensive so quickly rather than seeing the problem for what it is.

Secondly, why would the gun lobby not allow it? Do they provide THAT much money to the US Government? Serious question, why are they so powerful?

[Fishtigua]

OpulentBob said:

Secondly, why would the gun lobby not allow it? Do they provide THAT much money to the US Government? Serious question, why are they so powerful?

Not the Govt, it's the Senate and Congressmen that are bought. The ones who make or even dilute any Gun Laws.

The whole wretched political system is hung upon cash donors, very little moves without money or the 'Will of God'.

[durbster]

Corpulent Tosser said:

Background checks including mental health for anyone wanting to buy a gun would be a sensible idea, it wouldn't take guns out of circulation, nor would it prevent guns falling into the wrong hands, but it is certainly a sensible suggestion.

This is always touted as a possible solution but I think America has unwarranted confidence in its understanding of mental health.

Stepping away from guns for a minute, I'd be interested to hear our US residents' views on another angle.

America culture is built around the notion of the individual (that's just an observation, not a criticism).

What this seems to have done is create an environment in which people are desparate to be unique, which manifests itself with the relentless creation of psychological conditions and disorders. Every basic human state or behaviour seems to have an associated disorder - and a handy stream of medication to treat it, of course.

I haven't spent enough time in the US to do anything but wonder out loud here, but my impression is of a nation obsessed with over analysing normal human behaviour in order to self-diagnose some affliction using dubious psuedo-psychology.

Hmm... sometimes I'm happy and sometimes I'm sad... oh! That must mean I'm bi-polar!

Teenagers are prone to this kind of thing anyway but perhaps US culture massively amplifies it to the point where these kids feel they are not really responsible for their actions any more.

This came to mind when a video by one of these shooters was released and pored over. I watched it and saw an over-privileged, stroppy teenager sat in an expensive car saying the same sort of bks every other teenager does. However, the way the video was presented in the media was that he was saying something unusual, something weird. They were desparate to find something in there that made him extraordinary but the fact is, what that kid was saying was incredibly normal. It was boring.

But the consequence of that is when another kid sees it and thinks, "hey, I sometimes think that girls don't like me too." This kid doesn't realise that's how he's supposed to feel at his age and so decides that perhaps he needs to go and shoot up his school too.

Because that's what you do in America.

[petrolsniffer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

WTF?!

I know it would be a long hard battle and pro gunners will think its the beginning of the end but at least have some laws of how people are storing and securing their weapons.

[ewenm]

petrolsniffer said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

WTF?!

I know it would be a long hard battle and pro gunners will think its the beginning of the end but at least have some laws of how people are storing and securing their weapons.

So sad.

[AW111]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not suggesting a direct causal link, but I think they contribute to the "lone avenger" mythology, and the whole "the authorities can't protect us" meme.

[smifffymoto]

When I read a story like that I do question the American mentality towards gun and the appetite they have for them.

[p1stonhead]

petrolsniffer said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

WTF?!

I know it would be a long hard battle and pro gunners will think its the beginning of the end but at least have some laws of how people are storing and securing their weapons.

Whats the problem? Creampuff thinks its ok for 8 year olds to have guns. This guy is practically a veteran at 11 years old.

[blinkythefish]

petrolsniffer said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

WTF?!

I know it would be a long hard battle and pro gunners will think its the beginning of the end but at least have some laws of how people are storing and securing their weapons.

I wonder how long it'll be before the NRA are along to tell us that "the only defence against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun".............

[anonymous-user]

petrolsniffer said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

WTF?!

I know it would be a long hard battle and pro gunners will think its the beginning of the end but at least have some laws of how people are storing and securing their weapons.

Cue the apologists/lunatics giving reasons why storage checks are actually a bad thing in 5, 4, 3...


ETA from that link:
The Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that compiles data on gun violence in the US, says 559 children aged 11 or under have been killed or injured in the United States in gun violence so far this year.

559 children under 11 - THIS YEAR. Proper little kids, not even stroppy teenagers fking around and getting all gangsta. America - Sort your st out.

Below is 550 people. Imagine now them all being children or primary school age, and being dead with a hole where their chest used to be. Is your second amendment worth that?

Edited by OpulentBob on Tuesday 6th October 10:09