390SE progress

390SE progress

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KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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Well the old worn camshaft is out and the new one is in, complete with duplex timing chain. I've decided for peace of mind to also fit a new oil pump and water pump as both were looking a little tired.



Here's a shot of the old camshaft - there is absolutely no trace of a lobe left (top one as you look at the photo) for the No 1 exhaust valve. The tappet was beautifully dished also. The rest of the camshaft lobes and the other 15 tappets were all looking okay though.



Not a clue what or where the old camshaft is from. It has the markings KCWL9 and S8818. I've tried Googling it but nothing is showing up. Anyone got an clues as to the camshaft origin?



One thing I've noticed is the small oil cooler fitted just infront of the main radiator. I'm presuming that this is an aftermarket installation?

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So new pumps and new oil relief valve arrive Monday so it should all be back together by Wednesday all being well. Fingers crossed it runs without a misfire!

mrzigazaga

18,534 posts

164 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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I wonder how long it was running without a lobe?...Just shows how hardy they are..I really hope that this is the final solution to this cars recent history...Good job so far mate...At this rate you will be up for an award....Actually its given me an idea.

KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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Bobby Shaftoe said:
If i remember correctly, KCWL9 is kent cams WL9, WL9 being British Leyland designation for their in house motorsport cam. Quite wild, off the top of my head, 300 degree duration with aggressive opening/closing but only the standard 0.39" lift permitted by regulations of whatever motorsport series it was used in (SD1 touring cars i think).
Thanks for that - ran Kent WL9 through Google and you are spot on with all the facts. Thanks. The "Stealth" camshaft I've fitted has higher lift but is supposedly quite good for general road driving. Hopefully I'll find out in a few days....

KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
quotequote all
mrzigazaga said:
I wonder how long it was running without a lobe?...Just shows how hardy they are..I really hope that this is the final solution to this cars recent history...Good job so far mate...At this rate you will be up for an award....Actually its given me an idea.
Mark, quite happy with this years Wedge personality award. The trophy is stunning and is displayed for all to see! Cheers.

mrzigazaga

18,534 posts

164 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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Alright don't milk it...Only messing...No i was thinking of something else as its getting more and more difficult to nominate a "Wedge personality" each year...So i was thinking of a more attributing award..Bit of fun at the end of the day..Might start another post to avoid hijacking yours ...bandit

I love the look of this 390SE...And nearly bought it..I helped Smash find it only to have it be a bloody nightmare for him..I think it may of been destined for me..Basket case and all that...But you are on it and it will run sweet again..Keep up the good work mate...Ziga

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,552 posts

212 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
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All 400SE had an oil cooler in-front of the radiator, I guess it was the same for the 390SE's

Maybe worth getting a silcone hose kit also while most of it is off, as they are not that expensive, and if the hoses are original, then they will be quite brittle. plus they look a lot nicer.

Do you change the oil pump complete or just the gears ??


KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Saturday 3rd October 2015
quotequote all
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
All 400SE had an oil cooler in-front of the radiator, I guess it was the same for the 390SE's

Maybe worth getting a silcone hose kit also while most of it is off, as they are not that expensive, and if the hoses are original, then they will be quite brittle. plus they look a lot nicer.

Do you change the oil pump complete or just the gears ??

Yes I've got a new silicon hose kit from ML performance ready to go in when it's all reassembled. For the oil pump the casing is not too bad so just got the two gears, gaskets and oil relief valve assembly. Cheers.

Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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TVRleigh_BBWR said:
Do you change the oil pump complete or just the gears ??

I don't think the covers have been available new for quite a while now, which can be a big problem if you have deep scoring on your existing cover. Frequent oil and filter changes help to avoid this, and possible sticking of the PRV.

TVRleigh_BBWR

6,552 posts

212 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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Number 7 said:
I don't think the covers have been available new for quite a while now, which can be a big problem if you have deep scoring on your existing cover. Frequent oil and filter changes help to avoid this, and possible sticking of the PRV.
I think your right, but RPI do a exchange for a re-surfaced one, I'm also planning on doing this service. once I can work out to hold them flat with out adding extra flats.

Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Sunday 4th October 2015
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TVRleigh_BBWR said:
I think your right, but RPI do a exchange for a re-surfaced one, I'm also planning on doing this service. once I can work out to hold them flat with out adding extra flats.
A sheet of glass should be flat enough.

Trouble is, I think I remember reading somewhere that the surface has some sort of finish treatment (passivation, anodising??), so just removing any scoring by abrasive means would not work.

adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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Interesting - a cam lobe has disappeared so about half an ounce of metal has gone into the oil, and the oil pump top cover and the timing cover are both scored....

I wonder if the two events are connected? Luckily the oil filter prevents the particles getting any further.

KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Monday 5th October 2015
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adam quantrill said:
Interesting - a cam lobe has disappeared so about half an ounce of metal has gone into the oil, and the oil pump top cover and the timing cover are both scored....

I wonder if the two events are connected? Luckily the oil filter prevents the particles getting any further.
And two valves appear to have been replaced also, not on the worn lobe, but on the two valves next to it?

I've asked the garage to drop the sump and flush the whole lot out before even thinking of trying to start it up. When they first took the rocker covers off they did note (and mention) the presence of fine metallic residue which had collected in the top of the engine. As such I imagine there's a lot more lurking at the bottom.

Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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KKson said:
I've asked the garage to drop the sump and flush the whole lot out before even thinking of trying to start it up.
Make sure they remove and flush the oil cooler as well.

KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Number 7 said:
Make sure they remove and flush the oil cooler as well.
Good point. Thanks.

adam quantrill

11,535 posts

241 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
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While the sump is off, take off the oil pickup strainer, and wash that out too, then refit it.

TVRTRICEY

141 posts

169 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
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Sounds like your getting somewhere!
Mine is out too and looks as knackered as yours. Going to drive over to Real Steel on Monday to get everything I need.

When I took my rocker covers off they look pretty much spot on inside (due to the heads being done about 5K ago. This foxed me a bit after seeing the cam considering the amount of metal that has eroded from the Cam lobes! The worst follower was seriously dished as well. My dad'd being working on the car whilst I'm away and he said there was swarf in the sump, oil was nasty and also silicone in the sump.


Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
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TVRTRICEY said:
Sounds like your getting somewhere!
Mine is out too and looks as knackered as yours. Going to drive over to Real Steel on Monday to get everything I need.

When I took my rocker covers off they look pretty much spot on inside (due to the heads being done about 5K ago. This foxed me a bit after seeing the cam considering the amount of metal that has eroded from the Cam lobes! The worst follower was seriously dished as well. My dad'd being working on the car whilst I'm away and he said there was swarf in the sump, oil was nasty and also silicone in the sump.

What sort of mileage do you think the cam has done?

KKson

Original Poster:

3,395 posts

124 months

Wednesday 7th October 2015
quotequote all
TVRTRICEY said:
Sounds like your getting somewhere!
Mine is out too and looks as knackered as yours. Going to drive over to Real Steel on Monday to get everything I need.

When I took my rocker covers off they look pretty much spot on inside (due to the heads being done about 5K ago. This foxed me a bit after seeing the cam considering the amount of metal that has eroded from the Cam lobes! The worst follower was seriously dished as well. My dad'd being working on the car whilst I'm away and he said there was swarf in the sump, oil was nasty and also silicone in the sump.

Yep - a matching set of knackered camshafts! Sump was dropped on mine yesterday. It and the oil pickup were totally sludged up. There was evidence of some metal fines (ex lobe no doubt) but nothing else untoward. Engine sump, pick-up, oil cooler and all now all thoroughly flushed and cleaned.

Sump is back on. New oil pump gears, new water pump, new oil relief valve, timing cover, pulleys all back on. Tomorrow the inlet plenum and wiring goes back on and new silicon hoses fitted throughout. Then it should be ready for a start. Everything will be crossed!

TVRTRICEY

141 posts

169 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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Number 7 said:
What sort of mileage do you think the cam has done?
The car had light use really from what I can see until about 2001, where it was on roughly 53K miles when the next owner who I'm in touch with said he used it everyday for 2 years (did 20K) without it missing a beat. He said he's never touched the engine as he'd planned to put a 4.6 in it, but had the chance to buy a 400 or a SEAC or something. I then got up to about 78K with its next owner, so roughly between 73K-78K it had its Stage 3 heads put on. I got the car with 81K so it did 3K with the previous owner. I'd think it was a sudden failure, but wonder wether the addition of the performance heads and double valve springs may have had an effect on the load for the cam if it was standard? It's why I'm not sure wether to put a standard cam in mine or something a tad fruitier.

Tricey


Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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TVRTRICEY said:
I'd think it was a sudden failure, but wonder wether the addition of the performance heads and double valve springs may have had an effect on the load for the cam if it was standard? It's why I'm not sure wether to put a standard cam in mine or something a tad fruitier.

Tricey
Possibly,if the springs weren't properly matched to the cam, although it seems odd to spend all that money on a head job and keep the original cam - is it the standard cam? If it has big valves, probably worth uprating the cam a bit, but ideally you'd want to know the spec of the springs already fitted. Mind you, 80K is not bad if it's the original cam.