Would a Z4 Coupe be a good upgrade for me?
Discussion
Agree the steering feel (or lack of) is my only disappointment with my Z4C, but I certainly don't find it a problem on NSL roads unless you exceed the limits a bit (or is that a lot?)! But if you aren't used to ultimate steering feel you won't miss not having it! 
The Coupe shell is so much stiffer than the Roadster from what I have read, and Roadsters are prone to roof motor issues. Anyway, we live in the UK so a roof and climate for the odd occasion it does actually get hot seems like a better idea all round!
I have toyed with chopping my 2 for a 130i - I mean a hatch like 325ti but with an N52 engine like the Z4C should be just the job, but there is something really special about the Z4! Plus it's quicker - BMW quote 0 to 100 kph in 5.7 secs rather than 6.1 for the 130i.
Anyway I hope you find what you want!
The Coupe shell is so much stiffer than the Roadster from what I have read, and Roadsters are prone to roof motor issues. Anyway, we live in the UK so a roof and climate for the odd occasion it does actually get hot seems like a better idea all round!
I have toyed with chopping my 2 for a 130i - I mean a hatch like 325ti but with an N52 engine like the Z4C should be just the job, but there is something really special about the Z4! Plus it's quicker - BMW quote 0 to 100 kph in 5.7 secs rather than 6.1 for the 130i.
Anyway I hope you find what you want!
Mr Tidy said:
The Coupe shell isn't much stiffer than the Roadster, not that I've experienced it, and you certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Anyway, we live in the UK so a roof and climate for the odd occasion it does actually get hot seems would seem abhorrent when you could have the delicious and visceral delight of driving in fresh air rather than in a sealed tin top!
Fixed that for you!
I do like convertibles, but ultimately, I can take them or leave them, and I'm a sucker for the looks of the coupe. That said I won't completely rule one out, but I'm heavily leaning towards the Coupe.
As for steering feel, its nice to have, but I can't see anything other than a Boxster being any better, certainly my 350Z was OK but not really any better than many FWD cars I've had (and certainly worse than some others). To this day, only the Mk2 Golf GTI and Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo had what I would call great steering feel, with the MX5 Mk1 in third place. Everything else has been much of a muchness. Is it really THAT bad on the Z4?
One thing that really surprises me is the lack of LSD. I'd have gone for an Z4MC instead but the cost of entry is about double, not to mention the running costs which I think would be too much, from what I've read, in most respects basically add about 70 - 80% on top.
As for steering feel, its nice to have, but I can't see anything other than a Boxster being any better, certainly my 350Z was OK but not really any better than many FWD cars I've had (and certainly worse than some others). To this day, only the Mk2 Golf GTI and Toyota MR2 Mk2 Turbo had what I would call great steering feel, with the MX5 Mk1 in third place. Everything else has been much of a muchness. Is it really THAT bad on the Z4?
One thing that really surprises me is the lack of LSD. I'd have gone for an Z4MC instead but the cost of entry is about double, not to mention the running costs which I think would be too much, from what I've read, in most respects basically add about 70 - 80% on top.
I would certainly recommend test driving a Porsche Cayman. For your budget you can buy an early one and in terms of the drive, steering feel it's a different league to any BMW or Porsche for that matter. Running costs would be not too dissimilar..
I used to have a 2000 booster S and test drove at a BMW corporate day the twin turbo z4 and while its a great road car it understated alarmingly on track. Acceleration was epic, but steering feel was lacking for me.
If you don't drive a Porsche you will find the z4 amazing. However once you drive a booster or Cayman I am pretty sure what you will want to buy.
I used to have a 2000 booster S and test drove at a BMW corporate day the twin turbo z4 and while its a great road car it understated alarmingly on track. Acceleration was epic, but steering feel was lacking for me.
If you don't drive a Porsche you will find the z4 amazing. However once you drive a booster or Cayman I am pretty sure what you will want to buy.
TameRacingDriver said:
One thing that really surprises me is the lack of LSD. I'd have gone for an Z4MC instead but the cost of entry is about double, not to mention the running costs which I think would be too much, from what I've read, in most respects basically add about 70 - 80% on top.
Z4MR is cheaper than the coupe - I think the cheapest we looked at was 13k, we eventually bought one a little under 16. Hi,
I can fully appreciate from one of the previous comments, about trying a Boxster before buying a Z4 and YES they possibly do handle better etc. But the overall running costs will be higher and would that justify buying one!
Having driven a Boxster and owned a 3.0SI Z4, I would go for BMW every day (I,ll say my apologies now, for that comment to all the Boxster fans).
Have you thought about buying a TVR Chimaera 4.0, as an everyday fun car?
Happy soft top motoring
I can fully appreciate from one of the previous comments, about trying a Boxster before buying a Z4 and YES they possibly do handle better etc. But the overall running costs will be higher and would that justify buying one!
Having driven a Boxster and owned a 3.0SI Z4, I would go for BMW every day (I,ll say my apologies now, for that comment to all the Boxster fans).
Have you thought about buying a TVR Chimaera 4.0, as an everyday fun car?
Happy soft top motoring
The cheapest Z4MR on 'trader is over £12K, ditto the Cayman, and the cheapest Chim over £11K.
I was only really wanting to spend about £8K, or £10K absolute tops. I would love a Cayman (or indeed a Chim) but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be a significantly more expensive proposition than a Z4C Si. If I get a pay rise / promotion then maybe I would be looking at those cars but that's not happening at least for a while yet!
The reason I came to decide on the Z4C was because I believe values have now bottomed out (am I right?) due to the rarity and looks (which I love). It seems to have a fantastically reliable and surprisingly economical engine, and the running costs are little different to any other non-M straight-6 BMW - which is to say not the cheapest but not that expensive either. The overall character of the car seems to be what I'm looking for, something that is good for the daily grind, yet something that can still entertain on a hoon (which really is probably less than 20% of my driving these days).
If I end up paying more for a car, I stand to lose more money on it, and I will have less money for its upkeep, which, if it is less reliable, then this is going to be a problem. In an ideal world, budget would not be an issue, but if that was the case, I wouldn't be considering the Z4C 3.0, I'd likely be in a 911 or an AM
I was only really wanting to spend about £8K, or £10K absolute tops. I would love a Cayman (or indeed a Chim) but I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be a significantly more expensive proposition than a Z4C Si. If I get a pay rise / promotion then maybe I would be looking at those cars but that's not happening at least for a while yet!
The reason I came to decide on the Z4C was because I believe values have now bottomed out (am I right?) due to the rarity and looks (which I love). It seems to have a fantastically reliable and surprisingly economical engine, and the running costs are little different to any other non-M straight-6 BMW - which is to say not the cheapest but not that expensive either. The overall character of the car seems to be what I'm looking for, something that is good for the daily grind, yet something that can still entertain on a hoon (which really is probably less than 20% of my driving these days).
If I end up paying more for a car, I stand to lose more money on it, and I will have less money for its upkeep, which, if it is less reliable, then this is going to be a problem. In an ideal world, budget would not be an issue, but if that was the case, I wouldn't be considering the Z4C 3.0, I'd likely be in a 911 or an AM
TameRacingDriver said:
The reason I came to decide on the Z4C was because I believe values have now bottomed out (am I right?) due to the rarity and looks (which I love). It seems to have a fantastically reliable and surprisingly economical engine, and the running costs are little different to any other non-M straight-6 BMW - which is to say not the cheapest but not that expensive either. The overall character of the car seems to be what I'm looking for, something that is good for the daily grind, yet something that can still entertain on a hoon (which really is probably less than 20% of my driving these days).
A good decision and an accurate assessment!Billy_Whizzzz said:
Mr Tidy said:
The Coupe shell isn't much stiffer than the Roadster, not that I've experienced it, and you certainly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Anyway, we live in the UK so a roof and climate for the odd occasion it does actually get hot seems would seem abhorrent when you could have the delicious and visceral delight of driving in fresh air rather than in a sealed tin top!
Fixed that for you!
d" and you would be right. 
!Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 11th October 00:17
I purchased my coupe April 2014, having gone from a series of capable FWD hatches (2x 306 GTi6s, and a mapped Renaultsport Megane R26).
The coupe is a car I'd loved the look of for ages, but if you're a keen driver I suggest planning for the following;
1. Get rid of the run-flats - significantly reduces the tramlining
2. Change the Front wishbone rear bushes - they are a partial cause of the tramlining/wandering front end at speed. I recommend swapping to Powerflex, the additional control is really noticable
3. Change the Rear Trailing-arm bushes (RTABs) - again they are a cause of changes in toe during acceleration and when coming off the throttle, and when worn they also cause nervousness in the car's handling at speed.
4. This one isn't a must, but I recommend looking at refreshing the dampers as they are known to get tired on the E46 3-series platform upon which the Z4 is based.
I've changed all the above, going for Bilstein B12 suspension in addition to Powerflex for all the bushes, and the difference is awesome - the car is an absolute hoot to drive fast!
On the subject of the steering feel - since sorting the suspension and bushes, I would not say the lack of feel is a hindrance - I think there's plenty of feedback in how the rest of the car communicates. For me certainly it's far far from a dealbreaker.
Be prepared that driving the car is quite different to the 'maximum attack', revvy nature of a fwd hatch though, it's classic rwd stuff, which once you get used to is great great fun - slow in, fast out, lovely neutralisation under power on corner-exit - it really is smashing stuff :P
Without wishing to turn this into a 'shutup & just buy one now' response - I also looked long and hard at the Cayman. I'd have wanted (still want) a 3.4S - I hate to say it but I think the 2.7 ~240hp is a little on the miserly side for ~1300kg sports car in this day and age. The 3.4S is known for bore-scoring requiring a full engine rebuild which has a pretty hefty cost associated - ultimately this wasn't a possibility I was prepared to live with!
I would definitely recommend looking at M3's as an alternative to the Z4C, unless you're already set(!) - lower end models are within your initial budget, but you'll pay a lot more for servicing and running costs (tax is double, insurance etc), but they're a lot of car for the money if you do your research beforehand and check any car you view thoroughly.
Hope my ramblings help a little anyway
Oh & FWIW to those arguing about torsional rigidity between the Coupe & the Roadster:
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
xxx
The coupe is a car I'd loved the look of for ages, but if you're a keen driver I suggest planning for the following;
1. Get rid of the run-flats - significantly reduces the tramlining
2. Change the Front wishbone rear bushes - they are a partial cause of the tramlining/wandering front end at speed. I recommend swapping to Powerflex, the additional control is really noticable
3. Change the Rear Trailing-arm bushes (RTABs) - again they are a cause of changes in toe during acceleration and when coming off the throttle, and when worn they also cause nervousness in the car's handling at speed.
4. This one isn't a must, but I recommend looking at refreshing the dampers as they are known to get tired on the E46 3-series platform upon which the Z4 is based.
I've changed all the above, going for Bilstein B12 suspension in addition to Powerflex for all the bushes, and the difference is awesome - the car is an absolute hoot to drive fast!
On the subject of the steering feel - since sorting the suspension and bushes, I would not say the lack of feel is a hindrance - I think there's plenty of feedback in how the rest of the car communicates. For me certainly it's far far from a dealbreaker.
Be prepared that driving the car is quite different to the 'maximum attack', revvy nature of a fwd hatch though, it's classic rwd stuff, which once you get used to is great great fun - slow in, fast out, lovely neutralisation under power on corner-exit - it really is smashing stuff :P
Without wishing to turn this into a 'shutup & just buy one now' response - I also looked long and hard at the Cayman. I'd have wanted (still want) a 3.4S - I hate to say it but I think the 2.7 ~240hp is a little on the miserly side for ~1300kg sports car in this day and age. The 3.4S is known for bore-scoring requiring a full engine rebuild which has a pretty hefty cost associated - ultimately this wasn't a possibility I was prepared to live with!
I would definitely recommend looking at M3's as an alternative to the Z4C, unless you're already set(!) - lower end models are within your initial budget, but you'll pay a lot more for servicing and running costs (tax is double, insurance etc), but they're a lot of car for the money if you do your research beforehand and check any car you view thoroughly.
Hope my ramblings help a little anyway
Oh & FWIW to those arguing about torsional rigidity between the Coupe & the Roadster:
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
xxx
Edited by Squidward on Saturday 10th October 19:07
^ Thanks for the reply.
I'm pretty set on the Z4 to be honest. I did think about the M3 but the extra running costs are not worth the extra performance to me. I reckon the 265 bhp it has will be plenty, to be honest my FN2 is plenty fast enough for me (not as slow as some think); the M3 is similar in nature to the Type-R engine and a part of me wants to get away from having to drive like a rally driver to extract any fun out of it!
When I had my 350Z I loved its torquey nature and a brilliant soundtrack at any revs (even starting it was a pleasure), hoping the Z4 Coupe can deliver a similar experience. My old Z was approx 290 bhp but was a Roadster with huge heavy wheels on, so probably ~ 1700 kg, where as the Coupe is about 1400 kg and only slightly down on power, it should be slightly quicker if anything. It will be more than enough for me as the Z was not a particularly slow car!
I have thought about another Z too as the prices are also bottomed out, but lower than the BMW. However, as I've already had one I'd prefer to try something new, and on the face of it, the BMW would appear to be a better all round car, albeit I'm guessing a bit more refined / less brash, and the Z was a thirsty wee beast, averaging around 20 MPG.
I'm pretty set on the Z4 to be honest. I did think about the M3 but the extra running costs are not worth the extra performance to me. I reckon the 265 bhp it has will be plenty, to be honest my FN2 is plenty fast enough for me (not as slow as some think); the M3 is similar in nature to the Type-R engine and a part of me wants to get away from having to drive like a rally driver to extract any fun out of it!
When I had my 350Z I loved its torquey nature and a brilliant soundtrack at any revs (even starting it was a pleasure), hoping the Z4 Coupe can deliver a similar experience. My old Z was approx 290 bhp but was a Roadster with huge heavy wheels on, so probably ~ 1700 kg, where as the Coupe is about 1400 kg and only slightly down on power, it should be slightly quicker if anything. It will be more than enough for me as the Z was not a particularly slow car!
I have thought about another Z too as the prices are also bottomed out, but lower than the BMW. However, as I've already had one I'd prefer to try something new, and on the face of it, the BMW would appear to be a better all round car, albeit I'm guessing a bit more refined / less brash, and the Z was a thirsty wee beast, averaging around 20 MPG.
TameRacingDriver said:
^ Thanks for the reply.
I'm pretty set on the Z4 to be honest. I did think about the M3 but the extra running costs are not worth the extra performance to me. I reckon the 265 bhp it has will be plenty, to be honest my FN2 is plenty fast enough for me (not as slow as some think); the M3 is similar in nature to the Type-R engine and a part of me wants to get away from having to drive like a rally driver to extract any fun out of it!
When I had my 350Z I loved its torquey nature and a brilliant soundtrack at any revs (even starting it was a pleasure), hoping the Z4 Coupe can deliver a similar experience. My old Z was approx 290 bhp but was a Roadster with huge heavy wheels on, so probably ~ 1700 kg, where as the Coupe is about 1400 kg and only slightly down on power, it should be slightly quicker if anything. It will be more than enough for me as the Z was not a particularly slow car!
I have thought about another Z too as the prices are also bottomed out, but lower than the BMW. However, as I've already had one I'd prefer to try something new, and on the face of it, the BMW would appear to be a better all round car, albeit I'm guessing a bit more refined / less brash, and the Z was a thirsty wee beast, averaging around 20 MPG.
the m3 will be plenty torquey at lower rpms trust me, but the nature of delivery is still revvy so to get the peak performance you will want to rev it out. IMO the increase in running costs wouldn't balance the additional enjoyment I'd have got from one vs the coupe, so it just didn't stack up.I'm pretty set on the Z4 to be honest. I did think about the M3 but the extra running costs are not worth the extra performance to me. I reckon the 265 bhp it has will be plenty, to be honest my FN2 is plenty fast enough for me (not as slow as some think); the M3 is similar in nature to the Type-R engine and a part of me wants to get away from having to drive like a rally driver to extract any fun out of it!
When I had my 350Z I loved its torquey nature and a brilliant soundtrack at any revs (even starting it was a pleasure), hoping the Z4 Coupe can deliver a similar experience. My old Z was approx 290 bhp but was a Roadster with huge heavy wheels on, so probably ~ 1700 kg, where as the Coupe is about 1400 kg and only slightly down on power, it should be slightly quicker if anything. It will be more than enough for me as the Z was not a particularly slow car!
I have thought about another Z too as the prices are also bottomed out, but lower than the BMW. However, as I've already had one I'd prefer to try something new, and on the face of it, the BMW would appear to be a better all round car, albeit I'm guessing a bit more refined / less brash, and the Z was a thirsty wee beast, averaging around 20 MPG.
the Z4 will definitely be more of a drivers' proposition than a 350Z, dare I say it... the weight makes a big difference! And I return 30mpg on my daily commute, and got 38 on my way home from Cornwall with the cruise control set at 75 over summer
the servicing is really affordable too - make sure you find a decent BMW-approved indy though.Cheers mate, thats part of the appeal to me, sensible running costs. It seems to be among the cheapest to run cars in its class, yet is consistently well reviewed, bar a few things that you mentioned before, which seem to be fairly easy to rectify.
I don't actually expect that it will cost any more than my FN2 is to run. I only average about 25 MPG at best in the Civic, and the best MPG I managed was 37 (sat @ indicated 75). I'd be surprised if the Z4 wasn't slightly better here. Parts, servicing, insurance and VED appear to be similar. Tyres probably cost slightly more. Not much difference really. Potentially depreciation proof now too.
I don't actually expect that it will cost any more than my FN2 is to run. I only average about 25 MPG at best in the Civic, and the best MPG I managed was 37 (sat @ indicated 75). I'd be surprised if the Z4 wasn't slightly better here. Parts, servicing, insurance and VED appear to be similar. Tyres probably cost slightly more. Not much difference really. Potentially depreciation proof now too.
Squidward said:
Oh & FWIW to those arguing about torsional rigidity between the Coupe & the Roadster:
BMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
xxx
That's exactly what I was getting at, but to Billy_Whizzzz (Spoonerism perhapsBMW Z4 Coupe, 32,000Nm/degree
BMW Z4 Roadster: 14,500 Nm/deg
xxx
Edited by Squidward on Saturday 10th October 19:07
) that is apparently only a "slight" difference!And the OP is right, they are fairly rare as they only made them for about 2 years. According to the database I got from someone on Z4forum there were 297 SE models and 1,906 Sport model coupes in UK spec.
Even a year on I can't help grinning every time I drive mine!
Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 11th October 02:00
Squidward said:
the m3 will be plenty torquey at lower rpms trust me, but the nature of delivery is still revvy so to get the peak performance you will want to rev it out. IMO the increase in running costs wouldn't balance the additional enjoyment I'd have got from one vs the coupe, so it just didn't stack up.
the Z4 will definitely be more of a drivers' proposition than a 350Z, dare I say it... the weight makes a big difference! And I return 30mpg on my daily commute, and got 38 on my way home from Cornwall with the cruise control set at 75 over summer the servicing is really affordable too - make sure you find a decent BMW-approved indy though.
My wife has recently changed a 276bhp 350Z for a Z4M. I never really took to the Nissan dynamically, it felt big and heavy and unwieldy. The BMW feels a lot lighter on its feet. the Z4 will definitely be more of a drivers' proposition than a 350Z, dare I say it... the weight makes a big difference! And I return 30mpg on my daily commute, and got 38 on my way home from Cornwall with the cruise control set at 75 over summer
the servicing is really affordable too - make sure you find a decent BMW-approved indy though.The two engines both make about the same peak torque at about the same revs, but obviously the BMW revs higher and makes a lot more power. So it's not really the case that relatively speaking you have to rev it out, you just can if you want to. The Nissan always felt strained at the top end. I would imagine that the 3.0 BMW engine is also a free revving engine, but has less torque than the Nissan.
otolith said:
Z4MR is cheaper than the coupe - I think the cheapest we looked at was 13k, we eventually bought one a little under 16.
Probably because they are floppy, whereas Coupes aren't......Good driver's cars usually have the front and rear attached to each other properly!
!OP, shame you are so far away - would have been happy for you to have tried my Coupe, but if a trader near you has one why not have a test drive?!
Edited by Mr Tidy on Sunday 11th October 00:26
Open cars are usually less rigid than closed ones, and newer models are generally stiffer than older ones. The degree of rigidity needed for handling purposes is somewhat less than that which is now considered desirable for NVH purposes.
I wouldn't be willing to pay much more to have a stiffer Z4.
I wouldn't be willing to pay much more to have a stiffer Z4.
otolith said:
Open cars are usually less rigid than closed ones, and newer models are generally stiffer than older ones. The degree of rigidity needed for handling purposes is somewhat less than that which is now considered desirable for NVH purposes.
I wouldn't be willing to pay much more to have a stiffer Z4.
Cannot argue with that, but then we are both biased! I wouldn't be willing to pay much more to have a stiffer Z4.
To be fair I haven't even sat in any Z4 Roadster, mainly because I like the styling of the Coupe so much better - no Roadster held/holds any appeal for me! And it rains for much of the year in the UK! At least it does where I live! And when the roof motor inevitably dies you just know it will be p*****g down!
Seems strange to be discussing stiffness with a stranger, but keep it up!
Yes, I like the looks of the coupe too. It was a similar story when I bought the Elise, in that Exiges looked great but were over budget, and roof-off motoring was a nice consolation.
For the wife, it was more a matter of finding something in budget which met her demands. Rear drive, quicker than her 350Z, an interior she liked, exterior styling she liked. She's a fussy cow! Lots of things rejected as "too slow", "too ugly", "old man interior", etc. The Z4MC was never in budget, so wasn't on the list.
For the wife, it was more a matter of finding something in budget which met her demands. Rear drive, quicker than her 350Z, an interior she liked, exterior styling she liked. She's a fussy cow! Lots of things rejected as "too slow", "too ugly", "old man interior", etc. The Z4MC was never in budget, so wasn't on the list.
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