Complicated Series of Events...
Discussion
I started a new job in April with a slight bump in pay but a different role altogether which included the provision of a company car.
6 months down the line and another opportunity pops up doing the same role albeit with a different company.
I have my frustrations with my current job; communication from the office, no real set 'objective' or sales target, no control over timescales for production etc. It seems like I'm more of a messenger than a Sales Manager (my title).
I carefully raised all of these issues with my current employer so as not to rock the boat as I was still on probation, but nothing has been acted on. They just acknowledge the problem and say "there's a plan in place".
So when the new opportunity came up; I went for it. I said all the right things and have been offered the job (2 weeks ago).
On handing over my notice;
- I was paid a 'Bonus' - however my contract states that I would not be enroled into the bonus program until 2016
- After trying to convince me to stay; they offered me no resolution to the problems I outlined. These were:
Company car: I was given a 2009 2.0 Diesel Estate car. It's been used as a pool car in the past, so it has never been loved. It's knackered. There is no intention to replace this in the immediate future. I pay taxes on it, and I'm frankly embarrassed by its' appearance.
Laptop: Again, an old hand-me-down. It's slow, un-responsive and generally a pain to use. There is no intention to replace this either.
Money: I was on probation so my salary for the last 6 months has been £2k less than we agreed. On handing in my notice, I was told my salary would now increase by £2k. Like it was supposed to at the beginning of the month anyway...not much incentive.
Since confirming my resignation after these rather unconvincing attempts to make me stay; I've heard nothing. I've set the last date of employment as 1 month away (30.10.15) and tried to keep things as amicable as possible.
Furthermore; there's a 'non-compete' clause in my contract, which states that I cannot participate in 'restricted business' for 12 months after leaving. I've pointed out since my first correspondence that I would like to leave amicably and not have this clause raise problems for my new role. I've done everything possible to communicate with my current employer about where I'm going next, and even offered to arrange a telephone call between them and my future employer.
Still with me? Sorry for the long post...
I have a few questions-
1. Can my current employer now choose to challenge / enforce the non-compete, or is it too late for them to confirm their intention to enforce this? It's been over a week since my notice was handed in.
2. Can the bonus I have been paid now be revoked? ie. I'm working until the end of the month, can they deduct the bonus I've been paid from the final salary I am anticipating? As this would surely f*ck me up.
3. Can I negotiate my end date if I have holiday leave remaining that I have acrued? Reason being, I can secure a return trip from returning my company car to the office on a day 2 days prior to my 'last day'!
6 months down the line and another opportunity pops up doing the same role albeit with a different company.
I have my frustrations with my current job; communication from the office, no real set 'objective' or sales target, no control over timescales for production etc. It seems like I'm more of a messenger than a Sales Manager (my title).
I carefully raised all of these issues with my current employer so as not to rock the boat as I was still on probation, but nothing has been acted on. They just acknowledge the problem and say "there's a plan in place".
So when the new opportunity came up; I went for it. I said all the right things and have been offered the job (2 weeks ago).
On handing over my notice;
- I was paid a 'Bonus' - however my contract states that I would not be enroled into the bonus program until 2016
- After trying to convince me to stay; they offered me no resolution to the problems I outlined. These were:
Company car: I was given a 2009 2.0 Diesel Estate car. It's been used as a pool car in the past, so it has never been loved. It's knackered. There is no intention to replace this in the immediate future. I pay taxes on it, and I'm frankly embarrassed by its' appearance.
Laptop: Again, an old hand-me-down. It's slow, un-responsive and generally a pain to use. There is no intention to replace this either.
Money: I was on probation so my salary for the last 6 months has been £2k less than we agreed. On handing in my notice, I was told my salary would now increase by £2k. Like it was supposed to at the beginning of the month anyway...not much incentive.
Since confirming my resignation after these rather unconvincing attempts to make me stay; I've heard nothing. I've set the last date of employment as 1 month away (30.10.15) and tried to keep things as amicable as possible.
Furthermore; there's a 'non-compete' clause in my contract, which states that I cannot participate in 'restricted business' for 12 months after leaving. I've pointed out since my first correspondence that I would like to leave amicably and not have this clause raise problems for my new role. I've done everything possible to communicate with my current employer about where I'm going next, and even offered to arrange a telephone call between them and my future employer.
Still with me? Sorry for the long post...
I have a few questions-
1. Can my current employer now choose to challenge / enforce the non-compete, or is it too late for them to confirm their intention to enforce this? It's been over a week since my notice was handed in.
2. Can the bonus I have been paid now be revoked? ie. I'm working until the end of the month, can they deduct the bonus I've been paid from the final salary I am anticipating? As this would surely f*ck me up.
3. Can I negotiate my end date if I have holiday leave remaining that I have acrued? Reason being, I can secure a return trip from returning my company car to the office on a day 2 days prior to my 'last day'!
A restraint of trade/non-compete clause can be enforced. It falls to the facts, including the actual terms of the clause and how reasonable they are.
Just because your employer hasn't complained about it within a week will not preclude them from doing so at a later date.
If you are not in the bonus scheme until 2016, it would seem rather odd that you have been paid this. Anticipate an error and recovery attempt.
You can negotiate your last date indeed, I would expect the holidays to be accounted for in any event to establish the last date you are "in the office"
Oh, ETA - you really should consider speaking to an employment lawyer to obtain insured advice.
Just because your employer hasn't complained about it within a week will not preclude them from doing so at a later date.
If you are not in the bonus scheme until 2016, it would seem rather odd that you have been paid this. Anticipate an error and recovery attempt.
You can negotiate your last date indeed, I would expect the holidays to be accounted for in any event to establish the last date you are "in the office"
Oh, ETA - you really should consider speaking to an employment lawyer to obtain insured advice.
C.A.R. said:
I have a few questions-
1. Can my current employer now choose to challenge / enforce the non-compete, or is it too late for them to confirm their intention to enforce this? It's been over a week since my notice was handed in.
2. Can the bonus I have been paid now be revoked? ie. I'm working until the end of the month, can they deduct the bonus I've been paid from the final salary I am anticipating? As this would surely f*ck me up.
3. Can I negotiate my end date if I have holiday leave remaining that I have acrued? Reason being, I can secure a return trip from returning my company car to the office on a day 2 days prior to my 'last day'!
All to my knowledge:1. Can my current employer now choose to challenge / enforce the non-compete, or is it too late for them to confirm their intention to enforce this? It's been over a week since my notice was handed in.
2. Can the bonus I have been paid now be revoked? ie. I'm working until the end of the month, can they deduct the bonus I've been paid from the final salary I am anticipating? As this would surely f*ck me up.
3. Can I negotiate my end date if I have holiday leave remaining that I have acrued? Reason being, I can secure a return trip from returning my company car to the office on a day 2 days prior to my 'last day'!
1. Yes. There's no time limit on this, other than the time specified in your contract in which you cannot 'compete' They don't have to file their intention to enforce it before you leave.
2. The bonus they paid you seems to have been a sweetener to stay on, rather than your 2016 bonus scheme. Clarify this with them, as if it's the latter they'll likely try and recover it and if it's the former, you need it in writing why this bonus has been paid to you so they can't try and recover it.
3. Yes. They don't have to accept though. They can just pay you any outstanding holiday.
As always, for 100% clarification, consult legal professional rather than Internet forum....
Just to clarify after re-reading my post; the bonus is paid to all employees at the end of September, so my BACS payment of wages + bonus had already been arranged prior to me handing in my notice. I carefully chose my words in my meeting with management last week and I don't honestly think they are aware that I was included in the bonus scheme last month. I'm half inclined not to say anything; it's a big organisation and will likely go un-noticed, so I'll hold onto the money until the end of this month and I get my final payment.
I'll clarify tomorrow what holiday entitlement I have left. I've always calculated it as working days in a year divided by entitlement - in this case 253 working days and 21 days holiday, which is a ratio of 12:1 - is this correct? So for every 12 working days I should accrue 1 days' holiday?
I'll clarify tomorrow what holiday entitlement I have left. I've always calculated it as working days in a year divided by entitlement - in this case 253 working days and 21 days holiday, which is a ratio of 12:1 - is this correct? So for every 12 working days I should accrue 1 days' holiday?
Well the sh*t has well and truly hit the fan.
Are there any employment lawyers on here?
Essentially got notification last week that my employer had decided today would be my last day. This, despite my offering that on the 28th (tomorrow) I could return the 100 miles home with a friend who happened to be passing. I was promised that I would be dropped at the local train station and my travel home would be covered. Fine.
Fast forward to today, asked to arrive early this PM. Painful due to traffic, but again, fine. I returned all equipment (laptop, phone, company car) and proceeded to wait. And wait. And wait. 5 hours in fact. I was then given a very pleasant exit interview by HR and wished well.
What happened next has literally left me feeling disgusted.
MD appears (having made no effort to speak to me all day) to say goodbye (or so I think).
Turns out he wants to enforce the non-compete clause of my contract and prevent me from working with any other company in the industry for 12 months! Absolutely taken back by this, seeing as I gave every opportunity for them to advise me of their intentions not even knowing if it could be enforced (I'm still serving a probationary period).
I stopped to ask whether we couldn't be a bit more grown up about proceedings as I won't be working for a direct competitor - I was told that I was the one being childish!
I was then escorted off the premises and left to my own devices some 100 miles from home, no car, the clothes I stood in and the sat nav I had been using while working for the company (as they never provided anything). To really make matters more infuriating it started p*ssing with rain!!
I'm sure the whole event will be funny in the morning.
The good news is the new company intend to fight my corner and want me to seek as much evidence as possible.
Has anyone ever experienced anything so unprofessional? To leave me like that after I've been so accommodating, upfront and honest is just downright rude. I would have even been in a position to defer work their way at my new place, now I just feel incredibly let down and want to cause them as much damage as possible in my fit of rage.
So I write this from the train after walking to the station in the rain, having paid for my own ticket. Should be home by 8:30.
Where do I stand, legally?
Sincerely, a very agitated PHer.
Are there any employment lawyers on here?
Essentially got notification last week that my employer had decided today would be my last day. This, despite my offering that on the 28th (tomorrow) I could return the 100 miles home with a friend who happened to be passing. I was promised that I would be dropped at the local train station and my travel home would be covered. Fine.
Fast forward to today, asked to arrive early this PM. Painful due to traffic, but again, fine. I returned all equipment (laptop, phone, company car) and proceeded to wait. And wait. And wait. 5 hours in fact. I was then given a very pleasant exit interview by HR and wished well.
What happened next has literally left me feeling disgusted.
MD appears (having made no effort to speak to me all day) to say goodbye (or so I think).
Turns out he wants to enforce the non-compete clause of my contract and prevent me from working with any other company in the industry for 12 months! Absolutely taken back by this, seeing as I gave every opportunity for them to advise me of their intentions not even knowing if it could be enforced (I'm still serving a probationary period).
I stopped to ask whether we couldn't be a bit more grown up about proceedings as I won't be working for a direct competitor - I was told that I was the one being childish!
I was then escorted off the premises and left to my own devices some 100 miles from home, no car, the clothes I stood in and the sat nav I had been using while working for the company (as they never provided anything). To really make matters more infuriating it started p*ssing with rain!!
I'm sure the whole event will be funny in the morning.
The good news is the new company intend to fight my corner and want me to seek as much evidence as possible.
Has anyone ever experienced anything so unprofessional? To leave me like that after I've been so accommodating, upfront and honest is just downright rude. I would have even been in a position to defer work their way at my new place, now I just feel incredibly let down and want to cause them as much damage as possible in my fit of rage.
So I write this from the train after walking to the station in the rain, having paid for my own ticket. Should be home by 8:30.
Where do I stand, legally?
Sincerely, a very agitated PHer.
i think you were a bit naive to think they would pat you on the back and give you a bfh.
Forget about politics you have left them now and move on.
The non compete clause, i would ask a kind pher on law thread, see if they advise best way forward.
Forget about politics you have left them now and move on.
The non compete clause, i would ask a kind pher on law thread, see if they advise best way forward.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 28th October 07:42
C.A.R. said:
The good news is the new company intend to fight my corner and want me to seek as much evidence as possible.
Has anyone ever experienced anything so unprofessional? To leave me like that after I've been so accommodating, upfront and honest is just downright rude. I would have even been in a position to defer work their way at my new place, now I just feel incredibly let down and want to cause them as much damage as possible in my fit of rage.
So I write this from the train after walking to the station in the rain, having paid for my own ticket. Should be home by 8:30.
Where do I stand, legally?
Sincerely, a very agitated PHer.
Sounds like your new employer is standing by their offer and will fight for you which is a good sign. Pass EVERYTHING you get from your old company e.g. legal letters straight to your new employer. When do you start your new job? Could be worth speaking to one of the new employers legal team. Until you get anything from your old employer in writing don't worry about it...life's too short...and even when you do, sounds like you don't have too much to worry about.Has anyone ever experienced anything so unprofessional? To leave me like that after I've been so accommodating, upfront and honest is just downright rude. I would have even been in a position to defer work their way at my new place, now I just feel incredibly let down and want to cause them as much damage as possible in my fit of rage.
So I write this from the train after walking to the station in the rain, having paid for my own ticket. Should be home by 8:30.
Where do I stand, legally?
Sincerely, a very agitated PHer.
The good news is that their behaviour confirms you've made absolutely the right choice in leaving !
I can only comment on personal experience with non-compete clauses but as long as you don't do something stupid like poaching their clients or using confidential information against them they would be unlikely to pursue you, IMHO
If you've really hacked them off and they decide to try & enforce it then it's time to get lawyered up.
I can only comment on personal experience with non-compete clauses but as long as you don't do something stupid like poaching their clients or using confidential information against them they would be unlikely to pursue you, IMHO
If you've really hacked them off and they decide to try & enforce it then it's time to get lawyered up.
I've accidentally ignored this thread after things got serious and I started an alternative one in the SP&L section.
The new employment has had to be postponed so as of Monday I'll officially be losing earnings which I would otherwise have had.
A letter has been drafted up and will be sent in on Tuesday for their response. How would you send in the train ticket for reimbursement? I typically emailed expenses but have been told that I'm not to contact anyone from the company, I've also heard (on the grapevine like...) that everyone in the company is under strict instructions not to communicate with me.
Shall I just post it? Short covering letter?
I'll speak to my new employer and see what they reckon, they're handling things now (which is great) so I don't want to undermine any communication they make.
The new employment has had to be postponed so as of Monday I'll officially be losing earnings which I would otherwise have had.
A letter has been drafted up and will be sent in on Tuesday for their response. How would you send in the train ticket for reimbursement? I typically emailed expenses but have been told that I'm not to contact anyone from the company, I've also heard (on the grapevine like...) that everyone in the company is under strict instructions not to communicate with me.
Shall I just post it? Short covering letter?
I'll speak to my new employer and see what they reckon, they're handling things now (which is great) so I don't want to undermine any communication they make.
See the other thread. The OP is now facing possible legal action to enforce the post termination restraint in his employment contract, so hoping that the problem will just go away isn't now realistic,
OP, as your new employer has retained lawyers, let them do the work, and do not send any letters yourself. The former employer has lawyered up, and so has your new employer. The correspondence should now continue between the two firms of solicitors. Ditch your amateur adviser. Thus far his advice has only got you further into trouble. I suggest that you stop trying to armchair quarterback via your two threads on PH. Listen to the advice of the insured professional retained to advise.
OP, as your new employer has retained lawyers, let them do the work, and do not send any letters yourself. The former employer has lawyered up, and so has your new employer. The correspondence should now continue between the two firms of solicitors. Ditch your amateur adviser. Thus far his advice has only got you further into trouble. I suggest that you stop trying to armchair quarterback via your two threads on PH. Listen to the advice of the insured professional retained to advise.
Whilst I'm grateful for your response, I fail to see how my qualified, practicing lawyer friend has gotten me into any worse trouble?! I haven't acted on any advice, I've purely had him observe everything and be reassuring along the way. Everything he has said has been reinforced by the letter most recently drafted by the new company's solicitors, proving that he's been right all along. Useful advice, if you will!
Furthermore, I'm not corresponding with anybody - certainly not the lawyers. I'm merely reporting the series of events as they unfold and asking for impartial advice from others who may have experienced similar or have stories to share.
The latest is that a new letter is being sent on Tuesday, as of tomorrow I'll be 'unemployed', hopefully only temporarily. I'll report back when there's news.
Furthermore, I'm not corresponding with anybody - certainly not the lawyers. I'm merely reporting the series of events as they unfold and asking for impartial advice from others who may have experienced similar or have stories to share.
The latest is that a new letter is being sent on Tuesday, as of tomorrow I'll be 'unemployed', hopefully only temporarily. I'll report back when there's news.
I had the impression that your friend was drafting you a letter. I also inferred, maybe wrongly, that your friend was behind your earlier assumption that things would just blow over. Is your friend a specialist in restrictive covenants? Is he/she any sort of litigator? Is he/she experienced? Practising law (the word is spelled with an s, by the way: s for verb, c for noun) is all about horses for courses. A lawyer who has never conducted a restrictive covenants case in court is not always going to be the best guide to that sort of case. Anyway, you now have a firm of lawyers instructed on your behalf(or maybe your proposed new employer's behalf). You are unlikely to gain much by asking here for advice. See the ill informed comment by andy xr above for an idea of the quality of advice that you will mostly get here. People here mean well but only quite rarely know what they are talking about.
EDIT: I see from your other thread that the lawyers are not explaining things to you. Ask them to do so.
EDIT: I see from your other thread that the lawyers are not explaining things to you. Ask them to do so.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd November 07:12
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