Claim against letting agent
Discussion
I'll start by acknowledging this is probably a waste of everyone's time, but I hope at least it wastes the agents time for dicking me around.
I was due to move into a flat on the 17th September but there were complications that meant I could not move, the issue was that I was not notified with any certainty until the 16th @ 13:00hrs.
As a result I still had a van booked and paid for, I had to move my stuff to another location and I had to live out of a suitcase for the period until the issue was resolved.
It took until the 23rd September for me to be able to move into the property I had paid for.
As a result I invoiced the letting agent for the cost of the van hire and a pro-rata day of my time with notice to pay within 14 days.
Fastforward to today and they are now 1 day overdue on the invoice and have failed to pay. As far as i'm concered the next step is small claims, but I have a bit of reservation as they have stung me before.
I'd like to know if i'm in the right here of if I should seek to reclaim my losses directly/ via alternative means ?
I should add that although all payments were made ahead of schedule, no tenancy agreement was signed until the day I actually moved in. I figured these guy's know exactly what they are up to?
I was due to move into a flat on the 17th September but there were complications that meant I could not move, the issue was that I was not notified with any certainty until the 16th @ 13:00hrs.
As a result I still had a van booked and paid for, I had to move my stuff to another location and I had to live out of a suitcase for the period until the issue was resolved.
It took until the 23rd September for me to be able to move into the property I had paid for.
As a result I invoiced the letting agent for the cost of the van hire and a pro-rata day of my time with notice to pay within 14 days.
Fastforward to today and they are now 1 day overdue on the invoice and have failed to pay. As far as i'm concered the next step is small claims, but I have a bit of reservation as they have stung me before.
I'd like to know if i'm in the right here of if I should seek to reclaim my losses directly/ via alternative means ?
I should add that although all payments were made ahead of schedule, no tenancy agreement was signed until the day I actually moved in. I figured these guy's know exactly what they are up to?
Edited by citizenmtb on Thursday 8th October 23:55
citizenmtb said:
I was due to move into a flat on the 17th October but there were complications that meant I could not move, the issue was that I was not notified with any certainty until the 16th @ 13:00hrs.
"Complications"? That seems to be a fairly relevant bit of the whole tale...TooMany2cvs said:
"Complications"? That seems to be a fairly relevant bit of the whole tale...
Apologies, I guess it is.The previous tenant was due to move out a week before I moved in, they didn't. They actually moved out on the 18th sept if I remember rightly.
EDIT: also had to adjust the dates in the first post as I was a month out.
Edited by citizenmtb on Thursday 8th October 23:58
Blanchimont said:
That's hardly the letting agents fault. I think you're aiming your anguish at the wrong person, you need to be sending the invoice to the previous occupier.
As he had no contract with the previous occupier why would he? It would be up to the letting agency to pass on the costs down the line surely?
redddraggon said:
As he had no contract with the previous occupier why would he? It would be up to the letting agency to pass on the costs down the line surely?
No, but it's factors that the letting agents couldn't control, so surely they're not accountable and the person who caused the issue (previous tennant) iscitizenmtb said:
I should add that although all payments were made ahead of schedule, no tenancy agreement was signed until the day I actually moved in.
I would not recommend suing the agent, or anyone, due to this. You could have quite lawfully walked away at any time up until that point - because you have no contract in place. So, you can't sue for breach of contract, because you don't have one.
Yes, it's s
tty what happened. But, if you want to take legal action against someone you need to prove that in law that person/organisation owes you money. Might there be another angle? There is a sliver of hope that there be some kind of angle that might give you hope depending on the communications between the parties, but, that is unlikely.
My gut feeling is that you'll have to notch this up to experience. Usually the LL likes a few days at least to check, clean, and if necessary repair the property between tenancies, and this covers this situation so it does not usually arise.
JustinP1 said:
I would not recommend suing the agent, or anyone, due to this.
You could have quite lawfully walked away at any time up until that point - because you have no contract in place. So, you can't sue for breach of contract, because you don't have one.
Yes, it's stty what happened. But, if you want to take legal action against someone you need to prove that in law that person/organisation owes you money.
Might there be another angle? There is a sliver of hope that there be some kind of angle that might give you hope depending on the communications between the parties, but, that is unlikely.
My gut feeling is that you'll have to notch this up to experience. Usually the LL likes a few days at least to check, clean, and if necessary repair the property between tenancies, and this covers this situation so it does not usually arise.
Thanks Justin.You could have quite lawfully walked away at any time up until that point - because you have no contract in place. So, you can't sue for breach of contract, because you don't have one.
Yes, it's s
tty what happened. But, if you want to take legal action against someone you need to prove that in law that person/organisation owes you money. Might there be another angle? There is a sliver of hope that there be some kind of angle that might give you hope depending on the communications between the parties, but, that is unlikely.
My gut feeling is that you'll have to notch this up to experience. Usually the LL likes a few days at least to check, clean, and if necessary repair the property between tenancies, and this covers this situation so it does not usually arise.
Unfortunately they refused to sign the agreement before the day of moving. I think they clearly knew the game they were playing.
ATG said:
Had you paid anything to the letting agent or the landlord prior to signing the tenancy agreement?
Yes, everything. totally nearly £2k. Fee's, deposit & rent.citizenmtb said:
Unfortunately they refused to sign the agreement before the day of moving. I think they clearly knew the game they were playing.
It's not a game as such. You need to think about it from the other party's perspective.Lets say the agent signs the agreement with you the week before. What would have happened here when the previous tenant is late moving out?
You could have put yourself up in a hotel, your stuff would have been in emergency storage, you'd be eating out each night, you'd have to pay for the removal guys again...
But, because the agent signed it on behalf of the landlord, the landlord is now liable to pay for all those costs incurred due to the breach of contract. So, you can possibly see why they don't sign agreements with a tenant in place!
JustinP1 said:
You could have quite lawfully walked away at any time up until that point - because you have no contract in place. So, you can't sue for breach of contract, because you don't have one.
Really? They accepted his fees, rent, etc - a court may deem that a contract was in place, especially if there were emails with dates, etc?(this is a question, IANAL)
Vaud said:
JustinP1 said:
You could have quite lawfully walked away at any time up until that point - because you have no contract in place. So, you can't sue for breach of contract, because you don't have one.
Really? They accepted his fees, rent, etc - a court may deem that a contract was in place, especially if there were emails with dates, etc?(this is a question, IANAL)
However, presuming that that everything is as I presume, it is standard (for good reason) to get cleared funds for deposit and rent before entering into the agreement.
If they didn't, a miscreant tenant could have valid rights under the contract, and if they didn't pay, all the landlord could do is spend months trying to legally evict them, and all that would be left would be a debt which would be paid at a fiver a month.
Again, it depends on the facts, but it is pretty standard that both parties are aware that there is not a contract in place until that contract is signed by both parties on date X. It's also standard to transfer the funds needed into the agents account so they clear before the signing date. But, the act of doing that itself would not form a tenancy agreement.
also keys are not released until the day of the tenancy starts and all the references and paperwork has been completed.
As a letting agent I cant see they have done anything wrong, they will want you in the property as soon as possible and its not a game. Delays can happen even at last minute.
If the last tenants didnt move out until the 18th Friday the Letting agents wont have inspected until the Monday 21st at the earlist , perhaps cleaning had to be done very fast on the Tues 22nd and you were in on the 23rd. How is that the agents fault? Sounds like a fast turnaround when they were put in a difficult situation.
As Justin has said until you have a signed TA you have nothing. Property is governed by written contract not verbal. which is one of the few exceptions to normal contract law.
How have they 'stung' you before?
If you really want to mark your cards with them then yes jump up and down, start a complaint with them and with the property omnibusman.
As a letting agent I cant see they have done anything wrong, they will want you in the property as soon as possible and its not a game. Delays can happen even at last minute.
If the last tenants didnt move out until the 18th Friday the Letting agents wont have inspected until the Monday 21st at the earlist , perhaps cleaning had to be done very fast on the Tues 22nd and you were in on the 23rd. How is that the agents fault? Sounds like a fast turnaround when they were put in a difficult situation.
As Justin has said until you have a signed TA you have nothing. Property is governed by written contract not verbal. which is one of the few exceptions to normal contract law.
How have they 'stung' you before?
If you really want to mark your cards with them then yes jump up and down, start a complaint with them and with the property omnibusman.
Edited by superlightr on Friday 9th October 10:22
Edited by superlightr on Friday 9th October 10:27
superlightr said:
Property is governed by written contract not verbal. which is one of the few exceptions to normal contract law.
Really? Land is, but I think you are wrong about tenancy:https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-...
https://www.gov.uk/private-renting-tenancy-agreeme...
"It lets you live in a property as long as you pay rent and follow the rules. It also sets out the legal terms and conditions of your tenancy. It can be written down or oral (ie a spoken agreement)."
Vaud said:
superlightr said:
Property is governed by written contract not verbal. which is one of the few exceptions to normal contract law.
Really? Land is, but I think you are wrong about tenancy:https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-...
https://www.gov.uk/private-renting-tenancy-agreeme...
"It lets you live in a property as long as you pay rent and follow the rules. It also sets out the legal terms and conditions of your tenancy. It can be written down or oral (ie a spoken agreement)."
We are very careful to ensure that nothing we do as letting agents construes a contract untill all the references/funds/ta are completed and this is written on many of the inital documents the tenants sign for even before referencing takes place.
Vaud, you are correct.
However, the main issue is there was not a contract on place, oral, written, or implied.
Both parties knew that the contract was in the form of the written tenancy agreement and binding when it is signed by both parties.
Thus, both knew there was no contract in place until that point.
Again, this depends on the facts, but from what has been put forward so far by the OP there is nothing to suggest that there are grounds for legal action.
However, the main issue is there was not a contract on place, oral, written, or implied.
Both parties knew that the contract was in the form of the written tenancy agreement and binding when it is signed by both parties.
Thus, both knew there was no contract in place until that point.
Again, this depends on the facts, but from what has been put forward so far by the OP there is nothing to suggest that there are grounds for legal action.
citizenmtb said:
Yes, everything. totally nearly £2k. Fee's, deposit & rent.
I would guess that there was some sort of letter of intent from the letting agent or landlord stipulating the move date? If there is then I reckon you are fair game. Just make sure you are pursuing the right party - is your contract with the LL or the LA?Ultimately, it is not reasonable behaviour for letting agents to behave in this sort of way. You cant suddenly move (or cancel a move) properties with a 12 hour period and renting is a very expensive business so to expect to have some sort of overlap with another property is unreasonable.
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