Is it time to have an age limit for driving on the road?
Discussion
Today there has been an absolutely terrible and fatal crash on the M1, close to where i am staying presently. It involved an 87 year old man driving the wrong way along the M1.
Now i know every driver is different, but there have been far too many crashes involving very old drivers in the past few years, one that comes to mind closed the M6 earlier this year for 5 hours.
Whether we like to admit it or not 80+ means less awareness, poorer eyesight, poorer decision making, poorer hearing, less physical ability and more forgetfulness, to name just a few.
Would a test every year from say 75 be the answer, a blanket ban at 80, or something else?
Surely something has to be done?
Now i know every driver is different, but there have been far too many crashes involving very old drivers in the past few years, one that comes to mind closed the M6 earlier this year for 5 hours.
Whether we like to admit it or not 80+ means less awareness, poorer eyesight, poorer decision making, poorer hearing, less physical ability and more forgetfulness, to name just a few.
Would a test every year from say 75 be the answer, a blanket ban at 80, or something else?
Surely something has to be done?
Frightening situation the wrong wayers.
I've said before that from [insert age] or more to the point elderly drivers should have a yearly driving assesment. If you flunk it then, licence temporarily suspended until you do refreshers and assesed again. Flunk it lose licence. Refuse to do refreshers then licence gone. Make the assesment free, refresher lessons and following assesment to be paid for.
Making the yearly assesment free needs looking at for costs to the assessor time, but I'm sure it's doable.
I've said before that from [insert age] or more to the point elderly drivers should have a yearly driving assesment. If you flunk it then, licence temporarily suspended until you do refreshers and assesed again. Flunk it lose licence. Refuse to do refreshers then licence gone. Make the assesment free, refresher lessons and following assesment to be paid for.
Making the yearly assesment free needs looking at for costs to the assessor time, but I'm sure it's doable.
Done to death on PH.
Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical
Young drivers far more likely to injury themselves or others so you would be better directing your attention toward them.
People deteriorate with age but at different rates, and age is a very poor measure of someones safety, or ability in a car.
There is an argument for everyone to get regular retests but it would be unpopular with the masses and cost a fortune.
Anyone can report anyone to the DVLA if they suspect they aren't safe in a car, but we live in such a fractured society that these people are often left to report themselves, or be collected by the bucket that is the overstretched police service.
here endeth the thread.
Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical
Young drivers far more likely to injury themselves or others so you would be better directing your attention toward them.
People deteriorate with age but at different rates, and age is a very poor measure of someones safety, or ability in a car.
There is an argument for everyone to get regular retests but it would be unpopular with the masses and cost a fortune.
Anyone can report anyone to the DVLA if they suspect they aren't safe in a car, but we live in such a fractured society that these people are often left to report themselves, or be collected by the bucket that is the overstretched police service.
here endeth the thread.
It's not just old people that do this though is it?
I used my car to block a lad around 25ish from getting on the M180 the wrong way in Belton.
He was joining here to head to S
horpe god knows what he was thinking.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5678849,-0.82199...
I used my car to block a lad around 25ish from getting on the M180 the wrong way in Belton.
He was joining here to head to S
horpe god knows what he was thinking.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5678849,-0.82199...
julian64 said:
Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical
Insurance goes up once you hit 75, which seems odd if what you say is true. I don't agree with a blanket age ban though.
Some kind of regular mini testing for people of all ages I do agree with, even if failing it has fairly limited consequences. This could also increase in frequency as you get older?
smithyithy said:
While I do see what you're getting at, I'd like to see statistics that show fatal accidents involving elderly drivers, young drivers, drunk drivers, drugged drivers etc..
This is indeed my point, we ban drunk drivers, we ban drugged drivers and you instantly compared them to very old drivers. That is what i am saying, they are all high risk drivers! Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!
julian64 said:
Done to death on PH.
Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical
Young drivers far more likely to injury themselves or others so you would be better directing your attention toward them.
People deteriorate with age but at different rates, and age is a very poor measure of someones safety, or ability in a car.
There is an argument for everyone to get regular retests but it would be unpopular with the masses and cost a fortune.
Anyone can report anyone to the DVLA if they suspect they aren't safe in a car, but we live in such a fractured society that these people are often left to report themselves, or be collected by the bucket that is the overstretched police service.
here endeth the thread.
I disagree. Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical
Young drivers far more likely to injury themselves or others so you would be better directing your attention toward them.
People deteriorate with age but at different rates, and age is a very poor measure of someones safety, or ability in a car.
There is an argument for everyone to get regular retests but it would be unpopular with the masses and cost a fortune.
Anyone can report anyone to the DVLA if they suspect they aren't safe in a car, but we live in such a fractured society that these people are often left to report themselves, or be collected by the bucket that is the overstretched police service.
here endeth the thread.
An 87 year old will have the problems i listed above and you cannot tell me that makes them safer than say, YOU. Does it? The statistics showing a 90 year old is safer than a 40/50 year old is patently flawed.
I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done and i agree with the person above about retests.
Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 09:09
CorvetteConvert said:
This is indeed my point, we ban drunk drivers, we ban drugged drivers and you instantly compared them to very old drivers. That is what i am saying, they are all high risk drivers!
Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!
Oh, thats okay then. When I get T boned on a roundabout it will make a hugh difference that the accident was caused by inexperience or an excess of zeal rather than they just didn't see me.Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!
Just out of interest who are the highest risk drivers on the road in your opinion, and why aren't you focussing your efforts at them?
I dont think we can have a blanket age limit, some folk are more capable and alert at 85 than some at 45, some people just dont have the spatial awareness, but as long as they can pass the test.
It is a case of families being vigilant if older drivers are starting to become a liability, and individuals need to be realistic, my granddad drove until he was 89 and then voluntarily hung up his keys as he knew it was getting more difficult.
I know it seems a long way off but time flies and you dont really change as a person, I am 44 but keep forgetting I am not 24, you get a bit more creaky and look older but you dont really feel any different and I guess that if I make it to 74 that wont change and I dont want someone saying I cant drive because of a number, it should only ever be down to ability and that ability and competence needs verifying that bit more as we age and that should be the individual, their family and the government. I think some public information adverts may be a good idea in this area.
Imagine the outcry if the driving age was raise to 21 because of to many 17 to 21 year olds dying in accidents ?
It is a case of families being vigilant if older drivers are starting to become a liability, and individuals need to be realistic, my granddad drove until he was 89 and then voluntarily hung up his keys as he knew it was getting more difficult.
I know it seems a long way off but time flies and you dont really change as a person, I am 44 but keep forgetting I am not 24, you get a bit more creaky and look older but you dont really feel any different and I guess that if I make it to 74 that wont change and I dont want someone saying I cant drive because of a number, it should only ever be down to ability and that ability and competence needs verifying that bit more as we age and that should be the individual, their family and the government. I think some public information adverts may be a good idea in this area.
Imagine the outcry if the driving age was raise to 21 because of to many 17 to 21 year olds dying in accidents ?
CorvetteConvert said:
This is indeed my point, we ban drunk drivers, we ban drugged drivers and you instantly compared them to very old drivers. That is what i am saying, they are all high risk drivers!
Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!
My point was that it seems unjustified to propose a ban on older drivers based on (seemingly) this one incident. I'd at least like to see some statistics to support an argument that elderly people, as an age group or type, are more dangerous on the roads than other groups.Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!
I think that's what has been mentioned above - if you look at crash stats based on age groups, 'type' groups etc, the stats show that the elderly are actually safer than the other groups.
Of course we ban drink drivers, drug drivers, uninsured drivers etc. as they're breaking the law. But by this argument we'd be banning a lot more groups of drivers before the elderly.
I completely see where you're coming from, although the incident you're talking about was a freak one, I do see these clueless old drivers on the road, in fact the old woman and her half-dead son across the road from me both just had their licenses revoked and their battered 6 month old motability car taken away from them!!
But I see even more middle aged men driving aggressively, young women texting and drivers, young lads speeding around suburbs, foreign taxi drivers acting like lunatics etc etc.. We'd end up banning everyone if we jumped to conclusions based on a few stand out events.
Edited by smithyithy on Monday 12th October 09:14
myvision said:
It's not just old people that do this though is it?
I used my car to block a lad around 25ish from getting on the M180 the wrong way in Belton.
He was joining here to head to Shorpe god knows what he was thinking.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5678849,-0.82199...
I did it a few years ago on the NB services just north of Gaydon. Dopey bint around 25 or so driving towards as us we entered the services. Instead of chucking it into reverse & getting away, she proceeded to do a 3 point turn, slowly. For those that don't know the slip there is very shallow & fast. Luckily early sunday am she got away with it. I used my car to block a lad around 25ish from getting on the M180 the wrong way in Belton.
He was joining here to head to S
horpe god knows what he was thinking.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5678849,-0.82199...
CorvetteConvert said:
I disagree.
An 87 year old will have the problems i listed above and you cannot tell me that makes them safer than say, YOU. Does it? The statistics showing a 90 year old is safer than a 40/50 year old is patently flawed.
I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done and i agree with the person above about retests.
So you'd have no qualms about removing your dads freedom? Nice. Also why have you suddenly jumped from discussing 80 year olds to 90 year olds? There can't be many 90 YOs on the road, I suspect the risk they pose will be in the noise compared to the rest of the driving population.An 87 year old will have the problems i listed above and you cannot tell me that makes them safer than say, YOU. Does it? The statistics showing a 90 year old is safer than a 40/50 year old is patently flawed.
I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done and i agree with the person above about retests.
If you really want to remove a high risk group from the road then you need to take a look at young drivers.
Focusing on age is a mistake, IMO. Plenty of people become rubbish drivers for other reasons and plenty of old people are decent drivers. I'm sure we'd reduce the number of accidents on the road more by banning under 25s than by banning over 70s.
It's just time for compulsory regular retests for everyone, IMO. There might, possibly, be an argument for increasing the rate of retests for older people since their cognitive ability is more likely to degrade quickly. I think I'd like to see something along the lines of every two years for the first 10 years after passing your test (to try to catch the initial degradation in basic road-craft that so many people seem to suffer from) then every five years until you're 70 then ever year.
It's just time for compulsory regular retests for everyone, IMO. There might, possibly, be an argument for increasing the rate of retests for older people since their cognitive ability is more likely to degrade quickly. I think I'd like to see something along the lines of every two years for the first 10 years after passing your test (to try to catch the initial degradation in basic road-craft that so many people seem to suffer from) then every five years until you're 70 then ever year.
Edited by kambites on Monday 12th October 09:22
kambites said:
Focusing on age is a mistake, IMO. Plenty of people become rubbish drivers for other reasons and plenty of old people are decent drivers. I'm sure we'd reduce the number of accidents on the road more by banning under 25s than by banning over 70s.
It's just time for compulsory regular retests for everyone, IMO.
I agree with your last point, and I know the first point was being a bit silly, but here's a question:It's just time for compulsory regular retests for everyone, IMO.
If you banned people from driving until they were 25, would 30 yr old drivers be worse than they are now?
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