UK Head of Tesla.... Impressive

[Ares]

Heard the UK Head of Tesla speak last night (having driven 250miles up from London in an 85D, totally free of cost and not set off fully charged).

Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.

His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.


But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.

[akirk]

It is a good marketing exercise - but really, free motoring?
Of course it isn't - you are paying for it somewhere, and if Tesla is not going to go bankrupt you are either paying for it in the cost of the car, or it is a loss-leader to gain traction and once critical mass is hit there will be a cost... The electricity company is not donating their power free of charge...

there are lots of +ves / -ves about EVs, but that is a smoke an mirrors game

[kambites]

I increasing get the feeling that Tesla are running their entire car business as a loss leader.

[loose cannon]

And I'm still yet to see how long this 0 to 60 performance lasts in conjunction with range ?
After say 3 bursts of performance what then is the range left over ?

[Ares]

akirk said:

It is a good marketing exercise - but really, free motoring?
Of course it isn't - you are paying for it somewhere, and if Tesla is not going to go bankrupt you are either paying for it in the cost of the car, or it is a loss-leader to gain traction and once critical mass is hit there will be a cost... The electricity company is not donating their power free of charge...

there are lots of +ves / -ves about EVs, but that is a smoke an mirrors game

No, their supercharger network (23 sites in the UK, 300+ worldwide) is free to use. Free. As in no cost, for the lifetime of the car. And a full charge in 20mins.

Are you paying for it in the price of the car? The prices didn't go up when it was launched, but when the Model S is actually getting close to similar costs like for like with ICE competitors, its an increasingly compelling argument.

[RobM77]

kambites said:

I increasing get the feeling that Tesla are running their entire car business as a loss leader.

I can't remember the figures, but I think they might be. There was a financial report on them in a major newspaper recently. I don't think they're alone - I heard a few years ago that the Prius doesn't makes much money for Toyota either.

On a brighter note, I am seeing more and more Teslas as time goes by. I hadn't seen any this time last year, but I'm starting to spot about one a week now.

[Ares]

loose cannon said:

And I'm still yet to see how long this 0 to 60 performance lasts in conjunction with range ?
After say 3 bursts of performance what then is the range left over ?

He covered that. The Ludicrous option (2.8 secs) needs the range extender (i.e. 90kwh battery). The impact on using full acceleration 12-15 times would use the added benefit that brings - and that brings 6% increase in range.

Would 12/15 0-60 bursts in a similar sized car, capable of 0-60 in 2.8 use more than 6% of it's fossil fuel tank...? Can't say....no other similar car can do it. But I bet an RS6 would not be far off in fuel usage (just be 50% slower to 60...!)

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

And I'm still yet to see how long this 0 to 60 performance lasts in conjunction with range ?
After say 3 bursts of performance what then is the range left over ?

Well the motor is something like 300kw on that model so if you do 0-60 in 4 seconds 3 times that's 12 seconds of 300kw; 12 seconds is, rather conveniently, 1/300th of an hour so you're using 1kwh of your 85kwh battery (actually probably a bit less because part of the run will be traction limited and the motor can't develop peak power at really low speed). Three standing 0-60 runs would use around 1% of your battery.

[SuperchargedVR6]

Saw loads of Teslas in Hong Kong a couple of weeks ago. Lovely looking things and whisper along the road nicely. The torque must be great for the very steep hills there.

[Ares]

kambites said:

I increasing get the feeling that Tesla are running their entire car business as a loss leader.

He is. First profits due 2020 (with the arrival of the 3rd model, 2nd due next year - the SUV), but last night they said they should better than by a year or two.

....but thats not unusual for a new car manufacturer.



SpaceX might take a little longer

[kambites]

RobM77 said:

On a brighter note, I am seeing more and more Teslas as time goes by. I hadn't seen any this time last year, but I'm starting to spot about one a week now.

They're becoming pretty popular at work; there's a good five or something in the car park now, presumably all on the BIK company car scheme.

[akirk]

Ares said:

akirk said:

It is a good marketing exercise - but really, free motoring?
Of course it isn't - you are paying for it somewhere, and if Tesla is not going to go bankrupt you are either paying for it in the cost of the car, or it is a loss-leader to gain traction and once critical mass is hit there will be a cost... The electricity company is not donating their power free of charge...

there are lots of +ves / -ves about EVs, but that is a smoke an mirrors game

No, their supercharger network (23 sites in the UK, 300+ worldwide) is free to use. Free. As in no cost, for the lifetime of the car. And a full charge in 20mins.

Are you paying for it in the price of the car? The prices didn't go up when it was launched, but when the Model S is actually getting close to similar costs like for like with ICE competitors, its an increasingly compelling argument.

okay, so if every car owner in the UK goes out tomorrow and buys a Tesla S what is likely to happen? Do you really believe that Tesla will bankrupt themselves - of course not, there are some clever brains behind Tesla - so the cost must be managed somewhere - I will leave you to work out the possibilities, but don't believe that it is free - free only happens for an individual when someone, somewhere else pays - there is always a cost to someone...

[kambites]

Ares said:

kambites said:

I increasing get the feeling that Tesla are running their entire car business as a loss leader.

He is. First profits due 2020 (with the arrival of the 3rd model, 2nd due next year - the SUV), but last night they said they should better than by a year or two.

....but thats not unusual for a new car manufacturer.



SpaceX might take a little longer

I meant I'm not entirely convinced the car division will ever make money; nor am I convinced he particularly wants it to. I rather suspect his business plan is to prove that EVs are not only viable but highly desirable to push mainstream car companies into producing them in serious numbers while he quietly corners the market for battery production.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Ares said:

Heard the UK Head of Tesla speak last night (having driven 250miles up from London in an 85D, totally free of cost and not set off fully charged).

Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.

His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.


But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.

I am a big EV fan, but I don't for one second think charging up will be free to use for any period of time other than now for the early adopters. Eventually we'll be paying similar prices to what we are now for full tank of fuel. This is already happening with some charge points (granted not the Tesla ones) but some points were basically charging you for parking and a fee for the electric that equated to around £5 a charge (or 80% charge as it is). When you get back to working the pence per mile. Its no cheaper than a decent diesel.

Given the crap state of the power generation in this country and all the stupid green subs, where is all this free electricity actually going to come from?

[loose cannon]

Talk is all good but we're is the video of a few fast starts then a long B road blast, I havnt seen any videos other than a few second clips ? Unless somebody would like to take me out in one do a few blasts then say a 2 hour B road blast so I can believe it with my own eyes

[kambites]

akirk said:

okay, so if every car owner in the UK goes out tomorrow and buys a Tesla S what is likely to happen? Do you really believe that Tesla will bankrupt themselves - of course not, there are some clever brains behind Tesla - so the cost must be managed somewhere - I will leave you to work out the possibilities, but don't believe that it is free - free only happens for an individual when someone, somewhere else pays - there is always a cost to someone...

They couldn't, Tesla don't have the production capacity.

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

Talk is all good but we're is the video of a few fast starts then a long B road blast, I havnt seen any videos other than a few second clips ? Unless somebody would like to take me out in one do a few blasts then say a 2 hour B road blast so I can believe it with my own eyes

I'd be interested to see if you can find a video of the same from any of the competing ICE powered cars. It's just not something people do with a bloody great luxury saloon car.

[jonny996]

Ares said:

akirk said:

It is a good marketing exercise - but really, free motoring?
Of course it isn't - you are paying for it somewhere, and if Tesla is not going to go bankrupt you are either paying for it in the cost of the car, or it is a loss-leader to gain traction and once critical mass is hit there will be a cost... The electricity company is not donating their power free of charge...

there are lots of +ves / -ves about EVs, but that is a smoke an mirrors game

No, their supercharger network (23 sites in the UK, 300+ worldwide) is free to use. Free. As in no cost, for the lifetime of the car. And a full charge in 20mins.

Are you paying for it in the price of the car? The prices didn't go up when it was launched, but when the Model S is actually getting close to similar costs like for like with ICE competitors, its an increasingly compelling argument.

it is not free, it will take most people an hour to drive to nearest point, then 20 mins to charge then an hour back. that's 2.5 hours & what is the range?

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

And back in the real world were people don't buy 80k cars

No, they lease them as benefit in kind, where the Tesla costs about the same as a 330i.

The Model-3 will be the make-or-break model. People overuse the term "game changer" but if they can really make that ~£25-30k with a real-world 200 mile range and M3 bothering performance at road speeds it'll be one.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th October 10:19

[loose cannon]

kambites said:

I'd be interested to see if you can find a video of the same from any of the competing ICE powered cars. It's just not something people do with a bloody great luxury saloon car.

Your missing the point I'm talking about the technology not the shape of the car,
I can go out on a Friday evening drive 200 odd miles including a fair few performance blasts and still come back with over half a tank of fuel leaving me with another 150 miles range show me a electric car that can do that !!!