Just the usual, 996 engine rebuild
Discussion
c4sman said:
This thread kinda supports my theory that all m96 owners are not crazy as their engines are not all about to implode. 172k miles on a high performance engine sounds pretty good to me and even now the problem is not catastrophic. Sorry that the OP is having to shell out but sounds as if you've had your monies worth.
I've done 106k miles in just under five years, come rain or shine and this is the first major thing. Admittedly, most of those miles have been on the delightful A3, M3 or A34 but even so, it's been bloody fantastic. I have serviced it regularly and apart from this, there has been the usual coffin arms etc and a sheared water pump which again, coasted to halt on the motorway, be the butt of everyone's horns as they drive by but didn't try to get to Membury services and all was well! That sounds largely like good news to me! Grant @ Hartech just called about mine following its strip down. Lucky i was prepared to spend lots of money as I was about to have very little choice. Crank bearings just down to the copper and an IMS bearing that could have self-destructed at any time.
m444ttb said:
That sounds largely like good news to me! Grant @ Hartech just called about mine following its strip down. Lucky i was prepared to spend lots of money as I was about to have very little choice. Crank bearings just down to the copper and an IMS bearing that could have self-destructed at any time.
It's very good news, ok, of course I could have done without it but with an upgraded IMS bearing, clutch, timing chains, seals, gaskets and AOS then it should be good for a whole lot more miles yet. The engineers couldn't believe the lack of wear given the mileage and is certainly testimony to the merits of Mobil 1 in my mind. Hoping yours is equally successful.All the spares have either arrived or on their way except for one thing, the IMS solution. The more I read, the more confused I become (which isn't the hardest thing in the world admittedly), so it appears the options I have are:
LN 106-08.2 which seems to be popular although considered expensive and is recommended changing every 40,000 miles;
European Parts Solution which is a lifetime solution but seems to be a bit of an unknown quantity; or
replacement Porsche part if available.
My original IMS looks from the outside to be in good condition but of course, internally there has to be a lot of wear. Any considered advice would be appreciated.
LN 106-08.2 which seems to be popular although considered expensive and is recommended changing every 40,000 miles;
European Parts Solution which is a lifetime solution but seems to be a bit of an unknown quantity; or
replacement Porsche part if available.
My original IMS looks from the outside to be in good condition but of course, internally there has to be a lot of wear. Any considered advice would be appreciated.
sm34uk said:
My original IMS looks from the outside to be in good condition but of course, internally there has to be a lot of wear. Any considered advice would be appreciated.
Is there any play? Your original bearing lasted 170k. Theres is a lot of snake oil IMS bearings around.I would buy the best quality from your local bearing factors for under £20. Possibly remove the seal so it gets splash lubricated.
Tap450 said:
Might sound silly but are you sure it's not just abit of oil sat in the bore? Has it been using any oil? The flat engines do smoke on start up some times when there's oil in the notes from were it's been stood?
This is what I was thinking as they all do it from time to time. Oh well to late now.Scockers said:
I agree. Sounds normal.
Thanks everyone, but unfortunately it is used everyday come snow, rain and shine and it was an inordinate amount of smoke; I've seen less on a firing range!! Just collecting all the parts, new clutch etc but still stuck on what to do with the IMS bearing but will explore further the bearing change. Only downside is all the prevaricating means the timelines are slipping to the right.
Tap450 said:
If I was you I'd change it while your there. Iv seen one go last week and they course a lot of damage. And you will be back to square one saves you a lot of hassle and money. I'm sure you can get a ceramic one but I'd go and buy one from your local Porsche centre
That's what I've done, couldn't really find a satisfactory remedy that I was convinced by, especially with the amount of miles I do I would be changing the LN one every 18 months! sm34uk said:
Tap450 said:
If I was you I'd change it while your there. Iv seen one go last week and they course a lot of damage. And you will be back to square one saves you a lot of hassle and money. I'm sure you can get a ceramic one but I'd go and buy one from your local Porsche centre
That's what I've done, couldn't really find a satisfactory remedy that I was convinced by, especially with the amount of miles I do I would be changing the LN one every 18 months! Long story but when we took it into Porsche, they said they only replaced the housing but not the bearing and they were absolutely insistent on that. Strangely the one they supplied, for a 3.6 didn't fit, the nut was 15mm and mine 18mm-19mm. The part on mine was from a 997 so the only explanation has to be it has already been done; but Porsche couldn't explain it or have a record.
Anyway, the engine has now been put back together and is absolutely awesome, just have to run it in now. Not had the final bill but am pretty confident it should provide me with another 170k miles and am looking forward to taking it to Regal when it's run in to see what it is delivering on the rolling road. I was fortunate enough to win a competition in Total 911 for an EVOMSit re-map through Regal. It was measured at 310bhp before and 316.5bhp after so will be interesting to see what it is now. Early days but very promising. Even if there is no change, just having a new clutch and fly wheel will improve the feel immensely.
Anyway, the engine has now been put back together and is absolutely awesome, just have to run it in now. Not had the final bill but am pretty confident it should provide me with another 170k miles and am looking forward to taking it to Regal when it's run in to see what it is delivering on the rolling road. I was fortunate enough to win a competition in Total 911 for an EVOMSit re-map through Regal. It was measured at 310bhp before and 316.5bhp after so will be interesting to see what it is now. Early days but very promising. Even if there is no change, just having a new clutch and fly wheel will improve the feel immensely.
Now for the difficult part of running it in; been a long time since I have ever had to do that but worth it given the outlay. Difficult part is not giving it any right foot! Engine seems really strong so far but not taken it near to 4000 rpm let alone any higher. Doing about 100-150 miles before changing over the oil. So far, all the signs are good and I am very pleased indeed.
The original 996 single or double row bearing would have had an 8mm thread and a 13mm nut (across flats).
Various replacements had changed the internal bearing and the spindle (as indeed ours did) to a 10mm thread size (the originals were too flimsy) and the nut size for that is 17mm (across flats).
The later large bearing IMS has a 12mm thread size and a 22mm nut (across flats).
The only conclusion from this is that your engine had a modified non Porsche spindle fitted either as a job with the engine together (in situ) or during an engine rebuild (when it was apart).
The assumption then is that it also probably had a new bearing of some sort. Not sure exactly what you mean by a "housing" but would be interested to find out. Perhaps it was fitted with a different "spider".
Perhaps the engine had already been rebuilt once? have you checked the engine numbers to work out the age of the engine (they come without numbers so if none are present it was a replacement not stamped up but then I would have expected it to have the standard nut or larger bearing nut - neither of which it had.
Baz
Various replacements had changed the internal bearing and the spindle (as indeed ours did) to a 10mm thread size (the originals were too flimsy) and the nut size for that is 17mm (across flats).
The later large bearing IMS has a 12mm thread size and a 22mm nut (across flats).
The only conclusion from this is that your engine had a modified non Porsche spindle fitted either as a job with the engine together (in situ) or during an engine rebuild (when it was apart).
The assumption then is that it also probably had a new bearing of some sort. Not sure exactly what you mean by a "housing" but would be interested to find out. Perhaps it was fitted with a different "spider".
Perhaps the engine had already been rebuilt once? have you checked the engine numbers to work out the age of the engine (they come without numbers so if none are present it was a replacement not stamped up but then I would have expected it to have the standard nut or larger bearing nut - neither of which it had.
Baz
hartech said:
The original 996 single or double row bearing would have had an 8mm thread and a 13mm nut (across flats).
Various replacements had changed the internal bearing and the spindle (as indeed ours did) to a 10mm thread size (the originals were too flimsy) and the nut size for that is 17mm (across flats).
The later large bearing IMS has a 12mm thread size and a 22mm nut (across flats).
The only conclusion from this is that your engine had a modified non Porsche spindle fitted either as a job with the engine together (in situ) or during an engine rebuild (when it was apart).
The assumption then is that it also probably had a new bearing of some sort. Not sure exactly what you mean by a "housing" but would be interested to find out. Perhaps it was fitted with a different "spider".
Perhaps the engine had already been rebuilt once? have you checked the engine numbers to work out the age of the engine (they come without numbers so if none are present it was a replacement not stamped up but then I would have expected it to have the standard nut or larger bearing nut - neither of which it had.
Baz
Hi Baz,Various replacements had changed the internal bearing and the spindle (as indeed ours did) to a 10mm thread size (the originals were too flimsy) and the nut size for that is 17mm (across flats).
The later large bearing IMS has a 12mm thread size and a 22mm nut (across flats).
The only conclusion from this is that your engine had a modified non Porsche spindle fitted either as a job with the engine together (in situ) or during an engine rebuild (when it was apart).
The assumption then is that it also probably had a new bearing of some sort. Not sure exactly what you mean by a "housing" but would be interested to find out. Perhaps it was fitted with a different "spider".
Perhaps the engine had already been rebuilt once? have you checked the engine numbers to work out the age of the engine (they come without numbers so if none are present it was a replacement not stamped up but then I would have expected it to have the standard nut or larger bearing nut - neither of which it had.
Baz
spoke with Dan who rebuilt the engine and from his memory it was the 17mm nut size attached to the housing (that was the term Porsche used) but is in all likelihood the three legged spider to which you refer. Certainly the first nut that Porsche supplied was far too small so a much larger nut had to be supplied but was from the 997 part numbers.
I will have to go through all the old invoices from Porsche to see if I can find any reference to the engine being rebuilt as they were at a bit of a loss to explain as to why the 997 part was on there.
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