Homeopathy.... At last
Discussion
ReallyReallyGood said:
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, if such a placebo did genuinely make some percentage of patients feel better - thus preventing them from undertaking the time and resource for further investigations at greater expense to the NHS - isn't it money well spent?
Why not fund an NHS Homeopathy Centre that just sends patients away with tap water then?AstonZagato said:
For some reason Homeopathy Sans Frontieres didn't rush to Sierra Leone for the Ebola crisis...
I wonder why. Surely they have some hocus pocus stuff that would have protected them. You'd almost think they had a lack of confidence in their product. Like the lightning conductor on the church steeple.
NWTony said:
Derek Smith said:
NWTony said:
Gosh another anecdote from your past to support your position. Yay!
I hope you enjoyed it and got something out of it. Anecdotes are so much better than guesswork and prejudice. "I was wearing an onion in my belt, which was the style at the time..."
richie99 said:
julian64 said:
Sorry you didn't get the point of my post
Placebo is real, but spending millions on drugs that have no effect is the most expensive way possible to supply the placebo effect.
No real axe to grind either way but as I understand it, there are many very expensive 'real drugs', you know from proper pharma companies and everything, that are scarcely better than placebo, and only then on the basis of selecting the trials that show the best results. That's a much better way of wasting serious money, with the added advantage that the side effects can create problems the patient didn't have in the first place, or even kill them. Placebo is real, but spending millions on drugs that have no effect is the most expensive way possible to supply the placebo effect.
If so then you may want to have a read of this website
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance
Its quite a large english organisation tasked with sorting out the waste you describe, with 'no axe to grind either way'. If you want to rubbish their efforts then you'll need a little more than your opinion on 'real drugs'.
julian64 said:
Not sure if serious?
If so then you may want to have a read of this website
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance
Its quite a large english organisation tasked with sorting out the waste you describe, with 'no axe to grind either way'. If you want to rubbish their efforts then you'll need a little more than your opinion on 'real drugs'.
I've realized there is little point debating with the pro homeopathy and alternative therapy lot. In their mind "big pharma" and "allopathic medicine" = pure evil. Homeopathy and other unproven witchcraft is "natural" and therefore automatically "safe" and wonderful. If so then you may want to have a read of this website
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance
Its quite a large english organisation tasked with sorting out the waste you describe, with 'no axe to grind either way'. If you want to rubbish their efforts then you'll need a little more than your opinion on 'real drugs'.
richie99 said:
No real axe to grind either way but as I understand it, there are many very expensive 'real drugs', you know from proper pharma companies and everything, that are scarcely better than placebo, and only then on the basis of selecting the trials that show the best results. That's a much better way of wasting serious money, with the added advantage that the side effects can create problems the patient didn't have in the first place, or even kill them.
Can you name a legitimate drug currently prescribed that is both scarcely better than a placebo and comes with fatal side effects?The Spruce goose said:
I came to post that My favourite line, often quoted by homoeopathy believers, psychics, faith healers and the rest of the woo brigade, is "well, science doesn't have all the answers you know".
Errr...that's right, science doesn't have all the answers. That's pretty self evident by the fact that we still have scientists, and science endeavour is still going on. Because if science did have all the answers, we wouldn't still be doing it, you f
king idiot!
Errr...that's right, science doesn't have all the answers. That's pretty self evident by the fact that we still have scientists, and science endeavour is still going on. Because if science did have all the answers, we wouldn't still be doing it, you f
king idiot! Ok - now I'll put the cat amongst the pigeons and give an 'alternative' view. My Wife was suffering from a condition for which the NHS could offer no help except life-changing surgery, which they considered had to be done within 6 months. She was very much fearful of this (the outcome of which couldn't be guaranteed as a cure) and went to a Homeopath. Within weeks her condition improved, and despite the Consultant dismissing her 'cure' as rubbish, and stating the 'local butchers' would end up operating (rather than this particular Consultant as the best in the land) after 20 years my Wife is still symptom-free (self-prescribing Homeopathic remedies which she changes when needed from experience gained over that time). One thing to consider when discussing 'cures' is that the human body cures itself.... sometimes it needs a little help, but ultimately if you are ill drugs won't cure you if your body doesn't respond. Whether it's all in the mind? Who knows? But I've seen a great result, and consider it worked. If paying the Homeopath 40 quid for 45 minutes 'chat' convinced my Wife's body to cure itself worked, then it's money well spent. Maybe the mind is that powerful? Certainly I've competed in races where I've 'entered the zone' and produced a performance far better than expected - down to mindset at the time? All I have to add is that if (as appears to be the case IF the remedies do nothing) a particular Homeopath has such a HUGE ability to help the patient cure themselves, then that opportunity should be encouraged.
A lot of ailments can be caused by psychosomatic illness, stress being one. The stress is the stimulus and the effect is the person feeling unwell.
Take the stress away and the person feels well. The stress relief could be a 45 minute chat , and the cognitive behaviour of the effected person changes and revaluates the way they think and process things.
Less stress, no medicine given, but there is no justification to cure something as no cure was given.
This is Homeopathy principles, it nothing to with the mind healing itself, the brain just isn't that powerful.
Take the stress away and the person feels well. The stress relief could be a 45 minute chat , and the cognitive behaviour of the effected person changes and revaluates the way they think and process things.
Less stress, no medicine given, but there is no justification to cure something as no cure was given.
This is Homeopathy principles, it nothing to with the mind healing itself, the brain just isn't that powerful.
hidetheelephants said:
dandarez said:
She even told me better to sit and go, not stand, and to massage the bladder to ensure it's empty.
At the risk of learning something I may want to unlearn, how? It's inside the insides and short of perusing Gray's Anatomy and donning rubber gloves seems relatively unreachable.I didn't say stick your hand 'inside' to find it, did I?
Simply put your hand on your lower abdomen, and lightly push and massage gently in that area. You'll find any piss left in your bladder ...comes out your manhood. Amazing. Try it!
I was surprised too.
EDIT
Just thought, you probably still think I'm having a laugh.
Massaging bladder (area) at home - I wonder, is that 'home'eopathy?
Cuba has health info about it, but providing links not quick.
I wonder, is anywhere else suggesting this bladder massage? Quick google.
NHS? Bugger all that I can find.
Ahh. Yep, USA.
Here's good link with pretty pics!
It's also printer friendly, if you want to put in your loo to remind you. If not, close the print page.
See Home(eopathy)
Care section about half way down.http://printer-friendly.adam.com/content.aspx?prod...
Edited by dandarez on Tuesday 1st December 01:35
Fastpedeller said:
Ok - now I'll put the cat amongst the pigeons and give an 'alternative' view.
People do spontaneously get 'better', ie symptoms can disappear. It would appear that the body can cure itself. These points are uncontentious. What the rather reassuring anecdote doesn't do is prove the effectiveness of homoeopathy 'medicines'.
The scientific investigation into placebos is fascinating, and shows that prescribing a sugar pill can result in a cure or limitation of symptoms. But the pill itself has no therapeutic effect whatsoever. Obviously, otherwise it wouldn't be a placebo.
Placebos work. They can be shown to work in double-blind tests. My understanding is that few scientists have come up with a tested theory as to why.
The test of a medical product is that it exceeds the effectiveness of a placebo significantly and predictably. Homeopathy remedies fail to pass this test. This means that, in effect, that the material given to your wife could have been replaced by water (no one would be able to differentiate between the two) from the tap and the results would have been the same.
For some conditions the effectiveness of a placebo, and a homeopathic prescription, would be as high as 1/3rd. There's much to learn about the placebo effect. There is nothing to learn about placebos.
I have to say, I find the placebo effect fascinating. Really weird.
Fastpedeller said:
eldar said:
What was the condition?
endometriosisAnd laparoscopy is minimally invasive surgery. Your wife would have two surgical wounds on her abdo. each about a centimeter long. Hardly butchery.
Even hysterectomy would have no scar as unless your wife was very overweight it would be a vaginal hysterectomy.
Way before this your wife would have been offered tablet hormone treatment over a year or possibly an interuterine coil.
?
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