IAM / RoSPA benefits

Author
Discussion

SoupAnxiety

Original Poster:

299 posts

109 months

Wednesday 18th November 2015
quotequote all
I enjoy driving and like to think that I'm a "keen to learn" driver, way way improved from when I first passed my test at 18 but still with much to learn. I'm 25 now and would like to get "more" from driving, I feel that experience comes with time and a willingness to learn. I am willing to improve and freely accept that next year I'll have more experience and will be more likely to be a better driver (and so on).

Feedback for IAM / RoSPA seems to be, "I got loads from it, especially going out with the instructor" and this is what I want. I don't want to drive "faster" on the roads but nor do I want to wear driving gloves and post videos online of people making innocent mistakes. Treating driving as a science / educational journey I feel like I'm plateauing now and the pace of improvement is slow. Is there much to gain from doing my Advanced Test? Can anybody share experiences of their local community (ideally in the Cheshire West area) meets? I'm torn between the Advanced Test or getting track experience (better driving days etc).

P.S. Apologies for any ramblings / coherence issues in the above post. Caffeine has stopped working.

Road_To_Nowhere

2 posts

100 months

Wednesday 18th November 2015
quotequote all
Can't help you, mate, I'm in the same position as you just a couple of years older!

I'm looking to go and get a RoSPA driving assessment as a first step. I've got too much *stuff* going on at the moment to commit to a course, but I'd like to have a good overview of my current weaknesses.

sixpistons

188 posts

122 months

Wednesday 18th November 2015
quotequote all
I just recently passed my IAM test and I'd say it was worth doing. Of the observers I went out with, some had a fairly puritanical approach which I found pretty tedious, but the guy I did most of my observed runs with was great and a real car nut himself.

Some of what is taught I still don't agree with, and some observers may not either but unfortunately you'll need to stick to the rules to pass your test. For example, you're not allowed to break the speed limit even when overtaking despite the blatant safety benefit, and you'll never convince me wheel shuffling when manoeuvring is a good idea. The main benefit to my mind was sharpening up my observation and smoothness, and also making you think more about your driving, and always trying to learn from any little mistakes you make etc. Track driving is great fun but I think the skills you learn on IAM/RoSPA are rather different from those you would learn on track and have greater benefit to driving on the road.

SoupAnxiety

Original Poster:

299 posts

109 months

Wednesday 18th November 2015
quotequote all
Thanks both. The "learning from little mistakes" bit sounds good, as does smoothness. Reading R_U_LOCAL's post about gear changes was what put me onto the advanced test, his tips have improved my gear changes massively. It's hard to get objective feedback on driving and the grown-up-in-the-car bit must bring you on.

sixpistons - how difficult was the test and how much training did you have beforehand? Did you opt for the fast track package or the community supported one? And the cherry on top... has your insurance fallen noticeably?

titian

55 posts

118 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
Great, you have taken the first step on what can be a very enjoyable and worthwhile journey. My experience is with the IAM but I'm sure that there are other bodies who can offer advice and training, it really depends who you are comfortable with in your area.

I would suggest that you log onto the IAM website and search for the list of Local Groups where you will find contact details. Have a chat and arrange a demo/assessment run out, it ought to be a no charge introduction. If you don't like what you see then maybe try another group or organisation. Good luck and enjoy the ride.

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
SoupAnxiety said:
... how difficult was the test and how much training did you have beforehand? Did you opt for the fast track package or the community supported one? And the cherry on top... has your insurance fallen noticeably?
This is my advice, as an IAM Observer of many years.

FAST TRACK: Don't go the fast track route. My local group has picked up a couple of very poorly trained "fast trackers" who had failed the test. The group, well me actually, coached one of the candidates who got a F1RST on his second attempt at the test.

HOW DIFFICULT (Part 1): The national pass rate is approx 83%. A good group will be achieving 93%. Ask the group what its pass rate percentage is. If they say they don't know then they either don't want to tell you or they're so antiquated they haven't yet started using the IAM's group database system. Either, walk away and find a group that does know, or say to them... "Oh, that's interesting, I thought the group were supplied with that information on a regular basis by the IAM?"

HOW DIFFICULT (Part 2): Most associates who are committed to completing the course (see below for "how much training") and are determined to pass the test, will pass. The vast majority of "failure to complete the course" or "failure on test" are because of a lack of commitment and/or determination. Very, very rarely is it because of an innate inability to drive. Sometimes its brought about by an inability to listen to what they're being told, though. laugh

HOW MUCH TRAINING: The typical Skill for Life course usually consists of between 10 and 15 observed drives each of approx one and a half hours duration. So, (say) twelve drives, one per week, will take approx three months to complete. The most important part of the training is the practise you put in between observed drives.

INSURANCE: The IAM does have a tie-up with an insurance broker/scheme. Many members have benefitted from a reduction in their insurance.

THE CHERRY ON TOP: I wouldn't describe the savings on insurance premiums as "the cherry on top". The insurance reduction is a nice consequence of passing the test but, I would reserve the "Cherry on top" accolade for the following sort of comments made by many of my associates over the years:
"I enjoy driving much more than I ever did before I did the course.
I feel much more in control of the car and my piece of road.
I feel much more confident as a driver than before.
I now feel more able to judge the correct speed for the bend. Before, I just used to drive through them on a "wing-and-a-prayer".
Why wasn't I taught all this for my "L" test?
I've been driving for 40 years, and I never knew that!"

Hope that helps.



Edited by johnao on Thursday 19th November 15:58


Edited by johnao on Thursday 19th November 17:41


Edited by johnao on Thursday 19th November 17:42


Edited by johnao on Thursday 19th November 17:43

catman

2,490 posts

174 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
sixpistons said:
I just recently passed my IAM test....

Some of what is taught I still don't agree with, and some observers may not either but unfortunately you'll need to stick to the rules to pass your test. For example, you're not allowed to break the speed limit even when overtaking despite the blatant safety benefit....
Not in my experience! (IAM & ROSPA)

Tim

watchnut

1,161 posts

128 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
For me the "ROSPA" test is the better one....tougher, and based more on the Police "Roadcraft" handbook.

The mag for both is rather tedious reading and both as dull as dish water they could do more for making it a magazine that you would like to pass around the office

By doing both tests you will always come out of them a better safer driver, smoother, more fuel efficient, and actually get from a to b quicker than your old ways of driving. We all have faults that others will not point out to you for fear of offending, the boys and girls from IAM and ROSPA will "suggest" better ways of approaching your driving, and the rest is down to you.

How long will it take?...again down to you.....I took one "observed" drive with the Southampton chapter of IAM , didn't agree with the observer that I would be ok after about 6 months, slapped in for the test, and passed it about 3 weeks later

Rospa was "different", I went out with an "observer" twice, and took the test, and to my shame only got a "silver" as I missed a speed limit change after a right turn (I went back later and saw that the signs were hidden very well by hedges....but, no excuse I missed them) and also for not "pushing on" as much as the examiner would like when I could. I felt the ROSPA test was trying to make you drive like you were a "response" vehicle......and thrashing the car to the limits I feel is not about safer driving.....but it's their game so i will play it their way when i take it again in a few weeks time.

I have also passed an ADI's driving test, and the test required for becoming a "Fleet registered ADI" the Fleet registered test for me has been the hardest one I have done, but, I feel maybe because it cost me so much and so much resting on it.

The toughest driving test outside of the Police is the "Cardington Special Test". There is bound to be someone on here who could advise you on that.

As already said, if you are thinking of doing IAM/ROSPA then you are already on the way to be coming a better driver. I do a shed load of "Fleet" work, many drivers who claim they know it all and resent having to come out with me often change their tune if they are honest with themselves once "suggestions" are made to them about the way they drive, and how they can be safer, quicker, use less fuel, more vehicle sympathetic, tolerant of other road users, and less stressed.

good luck

Edited by watchnut on Thursday 19th November 19:36

sixpistons

188 posts

122 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
SoupAnxiety said:
sixpistons - how difficult was the test and how much training did you have beforehand? Did you opt for the fast track package or the community supported one? And the cherry on top... has your insurance fallen noticeably?
I did the regular non-fast track on and off for about 6 months, depending on when I was free. You could do it more quickly though. The test was fairly straightforward to be honest - it's just an observed run with commentary which I'd done before, and the examiner was a sound bloke so I was pretty relaxed. If you follow the advice you're given by your observers and focus on actually improving when you're driving on your own in between you should pass. You only have to do commentary for part of the run but I still little bits throughout the test to highlight any observations I'd made that may not be obvious to the examiner.

I'm not sure how it'll affect my insurance as I've not renewed yet. I'm 29 and only pay £400 at the minute so I'm not expecting a drastic change. As said, it's secondary benefit anyway.

Sheepshanks

32,523 posts

118 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
watchnut said:
Rospa was "different", I went out with an "observer" twice, and took the test, and to my shame only got a "silver" as I missed a speed limit change after a right turn (I went back later and saw that the signs were hidden very well by hedges....but, no excuse I missed them) and also for not "pushing on" as much as the examiner would like when I could. I felt the ROSPA test was trying to make you drive like you were a "response" vehicle......and thrashing the car to the limits I feel is not about safer driving.....but it's their game so i will play it their way when i take it again in a few weeks time.
Interesting to see the comparisons - thanks.

We did RoSPA at work with ex-Police drivers. A lot of the guys didn't like it as the way of driving taught was too forceful. Bold positioning is all very well in a marked police car but can look aggressive. But they way of driving suited me and I passed at Gold after a morning's driving.

SoupAnxiety

Original Poster:

299 posts

109 months

Thursday 19th November 2015
quotequote all
Thanks all for the replies!

johnao said:
This is my advice, as an IAM Observer of many years.

FAST TRACK: Don't go the fast track route. My local group has picked up a couple of very poorly trained "fast trackers" who had failed the test. The group, well me actually, coached one of the candidates who got a F1RST on his second attempt at the test.

HOW DIFFICULT (Part 1): The national pass rate is approx 83%. A good group will be achieving 93%. Ask the group what its pass rate percentage is. If they say they don't know then they either don't want to tell you or they're so antiquated they haven't yet started using the IAM's group database system. Either, walk away and find a group that does know, or say to them... "Oh, that's interesting, I thought the group were supplied with that information on a regular basis by the IAM?"

HOW DIFFICULT (Part 2): Most associates who are committed to completing the course (see below for "how much training") and are determined to pass the test, will pass. The vast majority of "failure to complete the course" or "failure on test" are because of a lack of commitment and/or determination. Very, very rarely is it because of an innate inability to drive. Sometimes its brought about by an inability to listen to what they're being told, though. laugh

HOW MUCH TRAINING: The typical Skill for Life course usually consists of between 10 and 15 observed drives each of approx one and a half hours duration. So, (say) twelve drives, one per week, will take approx three months to complete. The most important part of the training is the practise you put in between observed drives.

INSURANCE: The IAM does have a tie-up with an insurance broker/scheme. Many members have benefitted from a reduction in their insurance.

THE CHERRY ON TOP: I wouldn't describe the savings on insurance premiums as "the cherry on top". The insurance reduction is a nice consequence of passing the test but, I would reserve the "Cherry on top" accolade for the following sort of comments made by many of my associates over the years:
"I enjoy driving much more than I ever did before I did the course.
I feel much more in control of the car and my piece of road.
I feel much more confident as a driver than before.
I now feel more able to judge the correct speed for the bend. Before, I just used to drive through them on a "wing-and-a-prayer".
Why wasn't I taught all this for my "L" test?
I've been driving for 40 years, and I never knew that!"

Hope that helps.
Very insightful, I thought as much about fast track. It seemed to offer a shortcut to something which should be done with time taken to do it right and learn. I'll get in touch with my local IAM group and see what they are like and if I get on with them, the pass rate stuff is useful validation. My insurance cherry on top view is that it's the cherry on top of something very brilliant already - the sentiments in your comments are what I've heard from people on the internet and folk who I know. It seems to give so much more than the insurance kudos and confidence, control and improved judgement are all good skills to have!

watchnut said:
For me the "ROSPA" test is the better one....tougher, and based more on the Police "Roadcraft" handbook.

The mag for both is rather tedious reading and both as dull as dish water they could do more for making it a magazine that you would like to pass around the office

By doing both tests you will always come out of them a better safer driver, smoother, more fuel efficient, and actually get from a to b quicker than your old ways of driving. We all have faults that others will not point out to you for fear of offending, the boys and girls from IAM and ROSPA will "suggest" better ways of approaching your driving, and the rest is down to you.

How long will it take?...again down to you.....I took one "observed" drive with the Southampton chapter of IAM , didn't agree with the observer that I would be ok after about 6 months, slapped in for the test, and passed it about 3 weeks later

Rospa was "different", I went out with an "observer" twice, and took the test, and to my shame only got a "silver" as I missed a speed limit change after a right turn (I went back later and saw that the signs were hidden very well by hedges....but, no excuse I missed them) and also for not "pushing on" as much as the examiner would like when I could. I felt the ROSPA test was trying to make you drive like you were a "response" vehicle......and thrashing the car to the limits I feel is not about safer driving.....but it's their game so i will play it their way when i take it again in a few weeks time.

I have also passed an ADI's driving test, and the test required for becoming a "Fleet registered ADI" the Fleet registered test for me has been the hardest one I have done, but, I feel maybe because it cost me so much and so much resting on it.

The toughest driving test outside of the Police is the "Cardington Special Test". There is bound to be someone on here who could advise you on that.

As already said, if you are thinking of doing IAM/ROSPA then you are already on the way to be coming a better driver. I do a shed load of "Fleet" work, many drivers who claim they know it all and resent having to come out with me often change their tune if they are honest with themselves once "suggestions" are made to them about the way they drive, and how they can be safer, quicker, use less fuel, more vehicle sympathetic, tolerant of other road users, and less stressed.

good luck
It sounds like both IAM and RoSPA are worth doing as they offer different experiences and have different focus. I think I will need and will want more contact / training before the test, I'm open to learning and don't mind being told on what I can improve on. I have no bloke hang ups about finding out I'm not the best driver in the world, I want useful criticism ("suggestions" as you put it!) and will build on these.

Is RoSPA the one which requires retests every X years?

sixpistons said:
I did the regular non-fast track on and off for about 6 months, depending on when I was free. You could do it more quickly though. The test was fairly straightforward to be honest - it's just an observed run with commentary which I'd done before, and the examiner was a sound bloke so I was pretty relaxed. If you follow the advice you're given by your observers and focus on actually improving when you're driving on your own in between you should pass. You only have to do commentary for part of the run but I still little bits throughout the test to highlight any observations I'd made that may not be obvious to the examiner.

I'm not sure how it'll affect my insurance as I've not renewed yet. I'm 29 and only pay £400 at the minute so I'm not expecting a drastic change. As said, it's secondary benefit anyway.
Seems like attitude is more important than raw ability (eagerness to improve etc). I'm 25 and am wafting around in a 272 PS 330i for £400 (no porkies, with business use) and an E30 325i for £120 on a classic policy so the insurance overlords are already looking down upon me kindly!

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
watchnut said:
For me the "ROSPA" test is the better one....tougher, and based more on the Police "Roadcraft" handbook.
There is far more difference between different individual Observers/Tutors and between different groups than there is between IAM and Rospa overall. As to the Rospa test being tougher, there are quite a few examiners who examine for both organisations, and who would tell you that their tests are the same.

It is true that Rospa tests are based on Roadcraft, whereas IAM tests are based on their own book. This does not cause much difference in what is expected.

There are two definite differences. Rospa grade passes Gold/Silver/Bronze, whereas IAM pass them as First (quite likely to be higher than Rospa Gold) and Pass. And Rospa require you to retake the test every three years in order to remain a member.

Rospa is cheaper, but both are ludicrously good value because the Observers/Tutors are unpaid volunteers. There are many more IAM groups.

johnao

667 posts

242 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
waremark said:
watchnut said:
For me the "ROSPA" test is the better one....tougher, and based more on the Police "Roadcraft" handbook.
There is far more difference between different individual Observers/Tutors and between different groups than there is between IAM and Rospa overall. As to the Rospa test being tougher, there are quite a few examiners who examine for both organisations, and who would tell you that their tests are the same.

It is true that Rospa tests are based on Roadcraft, whereas IAM tests are based on their own book. This does not cause much difference in what is expected.

There are two definite differences. Rospa grade passes Gold/Silver/Bronze, whereas IAM pass them as First (quite likely to be higher than Rospa Gold) and Pass. And Rospa require you to retake the test every three years in order to remain a member.

Rospa is cheaper, but both are ludicrously good value because the Observers/Tutors are unpaid volunteers. There are many more IAM groups.
+1



R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
If any IAM observer say this must or must not be done then change observer asap

The idea of advanced driving is to give the driver more safe options to consider which they were not advised to do on basic L training as it would have been too much at that time

watchnut

1,161 posts

128 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
I have just spent 2 hours driving around the country lanes of Hampshire/Wiltshire with an ex Police advanced instructor practising for my next ROSPA test.

A great couple of hours where the "suggestions" he was giving me were far more in tune with what I felt were lacking in my first ROSPA test where only a "Silver" was gained.

The ROSPA test I did was based about 10% motorway, and 5% town work the rest rural. So we spent all of it north of Winchester
road positioning and gear selection approaching hills (up and down), junctions, and hazard warning signs, by not breaking, but a down shift/up shift of gears made the drive "feel" really so much better. So I now feel more confident of getting the "gold" I want next time (hopefully in next couple of weeks)

I do very different styles of driving and coaching depending on what I am paid to deliver, but the ROSPA way is by far the most fulfilling way on public roads i have done to date. Was really jealous of the Dorset Police training dept who were having a cuppa at the "Wallops" in the unmarked BMW's where they don't have the "national" speed limit restrictions us plebs have!!

Best bet for anyone of us is to do a Police advanced" course......the dogs dodahs....

james_gt3rs

4,816 posts

190 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
I did my IAM test after reading this forum for a couple of years. So I didn't personally get much out of it as I was of a good standard anyway. But, I'd say it's certainly worth doing just to get someone to check your driving for you.

I also do track days, and these are FAR more fun and rewarding. I'd say do both.

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
My 2p worth:

I did Bike IAM after 2 years of motorbike riding. It was good to be observed and to discuss my riding, especially with the examiner (Very experienced Police instructor). I would say that this was worthwhile - although as someone who had put in a lot of time learning about riding and driving beforehand, I didn't learn a massive amount that was new and was riding at a good standard. I suspect that a lot of people would learn a quite a bit from it.

I decided not to subsequently bother doing car IAM or Rospa, but did go along to a car Rospa meeting and then, having had such a good experience with the IAM examiner, went for a session with the Rospa car examiner, but not as part of a Rospa course. This was similar to my IAM test, but I was a little disappointed to discover that the 'traditional' control methods were still rigidly advocated. My driving was considered to be fairly good, but I didn't always adhere to the letter of the aforementioned 'traditional' methods and still don't.

I would recommend that people did do either IAM or Rospa -probably on a motorbike over a car, if you are a motorbike rider.




Rick101

6,959 posts

149 months

Friday 20th November 2015
quotequote all
The insurance saving are a bit of a con in my experience. They are no cheaper than you can get elsewhere and if going with surety you have to fanny round on the phone and providing like for like quotes.

There are benefits, just not insurance.

SVS

3,824 posts

270 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
It depends. In my case, I've saved quite a bit through IAM Surety.

However, I agree that improved driving skills are the main benefit of IAM and RoSPA courses thumbup

Rick101

6,959 posts

149 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
My understanding is Surety will price match, therefore you are not getting it cheaper than you could have done elsewhere?

Regardless, it's better to buy whats right for you than just on price. I wanted TD cover which Surety could not offer so went elsewhere.