Guy Martin and the Vulcan

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Discussion

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
no some things will be easier some harder - its just different
yes Absolutely, yes. This was the subject of my first two posts on this thread.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
RobM77 said:
I completely agree, but whilst it might be harder for someone with AS to find partners and a spouse, it's not impossible. The person with AS will just find their opportunities to meet people far more limited, the people they date fairly likely to struggle tolerating them and some relationships ending due to AS symptoms, and the eventual marriage perhaps harder work in certain areas. It's the same process that most people go through though in dating and eventually marriage, it'll just be more difficult and require more time and effort for someone with Aspergers. It's perfectly possible to achieve your goals and be very happy in life with AS, it's just harder.
no some things will be easier some harder - its just different

There was a video on beeb site a few weeks ago talking about marriage break ups for soem reason
The wife couldn't understand why her husband was so interested in restoring buses and it was likely to lead to the failure of their(long) marriage

He said that if he didnt restore buses who else would? It was a very important thing to do. Why should it it lead to failure of marriage?

It's just two different ways of thinking.
He should be able to restore buses, she shoudlnt think it as a problem that could lead to marriage failure and he ought to be aware that if he over does buses she might become envious. It could work the other way if she has an old embroidery collection.
On the whole women don't view their hobbies (if they have any - lots don't) with the same intensity of a man or an AS man. If all he did was buses 24hrs a day i'm sure she had every right to either ask him to spend some time with her or leave him. There has to be some give n take.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
227bhp said:
saaby93 said:
RobM77 said:
I completely agree, but whilst it might be harder for someone with AS to find partners and a spouse, it's not impossible. The person with AS will just find their opportunities to meet people far more limited, the people they date fairly likely to struggle tolerating them and some relationships ending due to AS symptoms, and the eventual marriage perhaps harder work in certain areas. It's the same process that most people go through though in dating and eventually marriage, it'll just be more difficult and require more time and effort for someone with Aspergers. It's perfectly possible to achieve your goals and be very happy in life with AS, it's just harder.
no some things will be easier some harder - its just different

There was a video on beeb site a few weeks ago talking about marriage break ups for soem reason
The wife couldn't understand why her husband was so interested in restoring buses and it was likely to lead to the failure of their(long) marriage

He said that if he didnt restore buses who else would? It was a very important thing to do. Why should it it lead to failure of marriage?

It's just two different ways of thinking.
He should be able to restore buses, she shoudlnt think it as a problem that could lead to marriage failure and he ought to be aware that if he over does buses she might become envious. It could work the other way if she has an old embroidery collection.
On the whole women don't view their hobbies (if they have any - lots don't) with the same intensity of a man or an AS man. If all he did was buses 24hrs a day i'm sure she had every right to either ask him to spend some time with her or leave him. There has to be some give n take.
I listened to the BBC programme at lunchtime, so thank you to whoever posted it. It explored the notion that an awful lot of AS symptoms are found in the typical (non-AS) man. For example, most men would rather be changing a clutch than watching reality TV and most men don't converse by talking over the top of each other, unlike most women. That's just normal biggrin It's also fairly male to enjoy non-fiction more than fiction. I don't mean to be sexist, but on average there are inherent (i.e. nature rather than nurture) differences between the sexes. In addition, not enjoying social situations can simply be introversion, and that applies to both men and women. Any marriage or relationship requires a lot of give and take and understanding, and when I was in my first ever relationship I read "Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus", and whilst much of it is rather crass, it made me think and really helped with that male/female side of things (as did growing up with a sister and a Mum, a luxury not all men have). Aspergers though is something fairly well defined on the autism spectrum, and it was those differences the radio programme touched on.

In some ways though, a marriage with an AS partner can simply require the same set of skills as a normal marriage, just with more attention to certain areas (and perhaps less attention to others! spin). Whilst there's a lot of justified controversy about 'modern' mental health diagnoses such as Aspergers, ADHD etc, I believe that a diagnosis can help both partners understand each other better (and the AS person understand life in general), so diagnosis can be a good thing if seen in the proper context.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
NM62 said:
In order

Sorry for using the 'Because PH' - it's just a lot of people on here argue black is white.

All I originally stated was that "Aspergers was a mild form of Autism".

I haven't read any where that it isn't and certainly the Autism Society say it is on their website.

If that is not the case then I stand corrected.

My own son was tested for AS, ADHD, and other disorders on the Autism Spectrum as part of the diagnosis of his OCD, which was where I took a great deal more interest, the internet is a great and sometimes only source when dealing with such topics.

The penny did drop that you knew quite a lot and my analogy of the Fiesta was how I understand Autism and Asperger's to be linked. Same Base - Fiesta - Different Variants - Standard(Mild) and ST(Full On) - it's how, I as a non medical person make sense of it.

My knowledge is from the first hand experiences with my Nephew - who was diagnosed by three consultants (1 NHS and 2 private) as having AS.

He can do his own hair and cut food he just needs help sometimes as he 'Just can't do it', he manages to go the pub but still likes his parents to pick him up sometimes - ordinarily I would just say he was 'Molly Coddled' by his parents if I didn't know why.

He is 'Almost Normal' perhaps I mad it sound worse than it was.

As stated in a previous reply my wife (who is a nurse) spotted the traits when he was very young and his parent's ignored it for 15 years which is the sad part.
I also apologise if I appear belligerent, I can see your point, but I think we are arguing over something which is so small and inconsequential that it's just better left.
No you don't have first hand experience of AS, your nephew does, but whether he can relay any of what he feels or has running through his head I wouldn't know. Therein lies your difficulty (and I feel some sympathy) that you may be trying to get your head around something which is intensely difficult and problematic - so much so that even those who have it are befuddled by it. As humans we like to label and compartmentalize, it's in our nature, but it's not always a good thing to do. Your nephews condition also sounds like Developmental co-ordination disorder (dyspraxia). I'm not suggesting he has it, just that many of these conditions overlap or are intertwined.
15 whole years is quite some time and I guess he's missed out on some specialist education, but it's also quite young when compared to people who (in their 40s,50s and more) are just learning about what they have, trying to understand it and finally realising where they have been going wrong all those years. He's got a long time ahead of him to catch up.

The internet is a dangerous place, I followed Robs link and have just diagnosed myself with Dyscalculia! It has always been said that a definite sign of AS is lack of empathy yet I read somewhere where some 'expert' says it probably isn't the case. She reasoned that what an AS person has is such an intense insight into other peoples issues that they don't know what to do with these feelings, they are so overwhelming they keep them inside. I can only compare this to crying at a wedding.... True or false or just partially true in some cases? Who knows....

I hope you are watching Michel Roux's Service on TV btw, I've missed a couple recently, but the blind guy and the Autistic chap were coping very well, its quite interesting to watch.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
I think much of the confusion is simply caused by the fact that these diagnoses that we're discussing (AS, ADHD etc) are lines drawn on a spectrum. Even the simplest things can be confusing to discuss on the Internet, let alone inherently woolly subjects such as defining Aspergers.

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
Here's someone from my field talking about this issue in a Q&A session after a talk. The title of the video refers to dyslexia, but the principle that he outlines is the same:

http://youtu.be/bBD_LTPjYVQ
What are you, an Astrophysicist?

RichB

51,433 posts

283 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Just as a reminder of anyone coming late to this thread:-



Edited by RichB on Sunday 29th November 09:18

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
227bhp said:
RobM77 said:
Here's someone from my field talking about this issue in a Q&A session after a talk. The title of the video refers to dyslexia, but the principle that he outlines is the same:

http://youtu.be/bBD_LTPjYVQ
What are you, an Astrophysicist?
By training, yes, that's what my degree is in and that is where my interest and passion in life lies. I still subscribe to journals and read Astro papers etc, but I now work in IT because it pays better and allows me to pursue my interests outside work.

ETA: The reason I mentioned it is that having studied Astro and worked in Physics, I am well aware of how AS combines with those areas and how it is possible to work around issues and maximise the benefits of AS. A friend of mine with AS followed a similar career path to mine, but in meteorology and he has had similar experiences - his obsessional interest in the subject was a great asset to him, but obviously there were some challenges along the way. Neil dGT sums it up very well, as usual smile

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 24th November 15:43

227bhp

10,203 posts

127 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
227bhp said:
RobM77 said:
Here's someone from my field talking about this issue in a Q&A session after a talk. The title of the video refers to dyslexia, but the principle that he outlines is the same:

http://youtu.be/bBD_LTPjYVQ
What are you, an Astrophysicist?
By training, yes, that's what my degree is in and that is where my interest and passion in life lies. I still subscribe to journals and read Astro papers etc, but I now work in IT because it pays better and allows me to pursue my interests outside work.
I see.


Post edited so we can get back on track!

Edited by 227bhp on Wednesday 25th November 10:23

DJFish

5,917 posts

262 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
I'm looking forward to watching, I just hope there's none of the usual "Guy has to hit this bit with his special hammer just right, otherwise a £5million part will be ruined & the wings will fall off...." artificial scripted drama nonsense.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
DJFish said:
I'm looking forward to watching, I just hope there's none of the usual "Guy has to hit this bit with his special hammer just right, otherwise a £5million part will be ruined & the wings will fall off...." artificial scripted drama nonsense.
biggrin Oh, there will be! With that dramatic music and the dramatic narrator they always have. I'm looking forward to it though smile

NM62

952 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
227bhp said:
NM62 said:
In order

Sorry for using the 'Because PH' - it's just a lot of people on here argue black is white.

All I originally stated was that "Aspergers was a mild form of Autism".

I haven't read any where that it isn't and certainly the Autism Society say it is on their website.

If that is not the case then I stand corrected.

My own son was tested for AS, ADHD, and other disorders on the Autism Spectrum as part of the diagnosis of his OCD, which was where I took a great deal more interest, the internet is a great and sometimes only source when dealing with such topics.

The penny did drop that you knew quite a lot and my analogy of the Fiesta was how I understand Autism and Asperger's to be linked. Same Base - Fiesta - Different Variants - Standard(Mild) and ST(Full On) - it's how, I as a non medical person make sense of it.

My knowledge is from the first hand experiences with my Nephew - who was diagnosed by three consultants (1 NHS and 2 private) as having AS.

He can do his own hair and cut food he just needs help sometimes as he 'Just can't do it', he manages to go the pub but still likes his parents to pick him up sometimes - ordinarily I would just say he was 'Molly Coddled' by his parents if I didn't know why.

He is 'Almost Normal' perhaps I mad it sound worse than it was.

As stated in a previous reply my wife (who is a nurse) spotted the traits when he was very young and his parent's ignored it for 15 years which is the sad part.
I also apologise if I appear belligerent, I can see your point, but I think we are arguing over something which is so small and inconsequential that it's just better left.
No you don't have first hand experience of AS, your nephew does, but whether he can relay any of what he feels or has running through his head I wouldn't know. Therein lies your difficulty (and I feel some sympathy) that you may be trying to get your head around something which is intensely difficult and problematic - so much so that even those who have it are befuddled by it. As humans we like to label and compartmentalize, it's in our nature, but it's not always a good thing to do. Your nephews condition also sounds like Developmental co-ordination disorder (dyspraxia). I'm not suggesting he has it, just that many of these conditions overlap or are intertwined.
15 whole years is quite some time and I guess he's missed out on some specialist education, but it's also quite young when compared to people who (in their 40s,50s and more) are just learning about what they have, trying to understand it and finally realising where they have been going wrong all those years. He's got a long time ahead of him to catch up.

The internet is a dangerous place, I followed Robs link and have just diagnosed myself with Dyscalculia! It has always been said that a definite sign of AS is lack of empathy yet I read somewhere where some 'expert' says it probably isn't the case. She reasoned that what an AS person has is such an intense insight into other peoples issues that they don't know what to do with these feelings, they are so overwhelming they keep them inside. I can only compare this to crying at a wedding.... True or false or just partially true in some cases? Who knows....

I hope you are watching Michel Roux's Service on TV btw, I've missed a couple recently, but the blind guy and the Autistic chap were coping very well, its quite interesting to watch.
Agreed on the fact it's a small point best left there.

There's no need to apologise - I prefer straight talk from SME and I would rather know if I was talking crap - it just takes time to ascertain who are/aren't SME's and this place is rife.

As for my nephew his diagnosis did state dyspraxia too.

Had not seen Michel Roux's Service and will try catch it on iPlayer - I am sure the wife would be very interested too as we have plenty of similar programs already on Sky+.

Still looking forward to the CH4 program about Guy and the Vulcan.

RichB

51,433 posts

283 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
For those still interested in the Vulcan there's a good piece here on the BBC from 10:22 onwards for about 10 mins. Includes some excellent footage and old B&W footage from the 50s. biggrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06n5sk3/insi...


kurt535

3,559 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
I've just finished 7 years of teaching children and adults all with various forms of autism.And I love them to bits! The OP on here who described it as a character trait in someone like humour is pretty much unscientifically correct!Their pragmatic approach and inability to lie and preference for stability are desirable attributes in any human.

I am pretty sure I have severe autism (just ask my gf) where anything to do with planes, trains, bikes, old WW2 airfields, military vehicles and scale models is on my radar. Just recently I visited an aircraft restorer whose work is exquisite - within 5 minutes it was stonkingly clear the man had autistic traits, hence his amazing ability bringing old lumps of aluminium back to life.

Guy's areas of expertise in engineering, wringing the neck out of bikes and ability to fix machinery are to be wholly commended and his life is positively enriched as a result.

I'd also defy any person who is not an expert/genius in their field not to have a degree of autism in them. As a further example, my car detailer has classic autistic traits so will be hanging onto him for many, many years to come! I just need a builder now and life will be complete smile

ANYWAY...the main reason for my post was, why isn' the vulcan programme on catchup or, does anyone know when it will appear?

Many thanks.


RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
kurt535 said:
ANYWAY...the main reason for my post was, why isn' the vulcan programme on catchup or, does anyone know when it will appear?

Many thanks.
As far as I know its first airing is this coming Sunday, the 29th of November at 7:30pm? I don't really watch TV though, so I'm welcome to be corrected on that - I've just got it written in my diary to watch TV then biggrin

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
kurt535 said:
I've just finished 7 years of teaching children and adults all with various forms of autism.And I love them to bits! The OP on here who described it as a character trait in someone like humour is pretty much unscientifically correct!Their pragmatic approach and inability to lie and preference for stability are desirable attributes in any human.

I am pretty sure I have severe autism (just ask my gf) where anything to do with planes, trains, bikes, old WW2 airfields, military vehicles and scale models is on my radar. Just recently I visited an aircraft restorer whose work is exquisite - within 5 minutes it was stonkingly clear the man had autistic traits, hence his amazing ability bringing old lumps of aluminium back to life.
Theres a lot of training out there which classifies normal behaviour as aspergers than lumps it into autism.
If youre aware of it that's ok smile

The beeb programme linked earlier tried to get to the bottom of it
Theres a piece where an aspergers practitioner has a set of tests and lo and behold everyone running through the tests is confirmed as having aspergers. Who defines the tests?

For instance the bit in the programme where the wife was convinced her husband had aspergers because he had two tins of WD40 - it's obviously abnormal

yet if she goes and buys a pack of 24 loo rolls when there are still 15 in the house that's normal.

You have to watch who is deciding what is or isnt normal and what tests theyre devising to confirm their own preconceptions

What about this guy?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34771704


RicksAlfas

13,355 posts

243 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
This could be one of the biggest off topic thread derailments ever.
rotate

Looking forward to the programme.

kurt535

3,559 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
kurt535 said:
ANYWAY...the main reason for my post was, why isn' the vulcan programme on catchup or, does anyone know when it will appear?

Many thanks.
As far as I know its first airing is this coming Sunday, the 29th of November at 7:30pm? I don't really watch TV though, so I'm welcome to be corrected on that - I've just got it written in my diary to watch TV then biggrin
Smack me round the head someone- looks like I was premature - don't go there !!!!!

kurt535

3,559 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
very off topic but:

''Theres a lot of training out there which classifies normal behaviour as aspergers than lumps it into autism.
If youre aware of it that's ok''

Aspies is recognised as being on the autistic spectrum, not an outright unlrelated separate condition. There are definite ways to diagnose it but do agree people try to stretch the umbrella for the condition rather too much for my liking and indeed for those experts in field such as Ali G's uncle who is a world class expert in this area!

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
RicksAlfas said:
This could be one of the biggest off topic thread derailments ever.
rotate

Looking forward to the programme.
Quite. Looks like people need to start a new thread whistle