Fit lower speed rated tyres, insurance issues?
Discussion
Thinking of putting winter tyres on the Landcruiser this year as 4 wheel drifts in a 2.5 tonne blancmange are a little unsettling... only problem is that it calls for 113H (1150kg / 130mph) tyres, and the winter ones are all lower speed rated than that... any ideas?
Should be a fun phonecall to the insurance call centre morons...
Should be a fun phonecall to the insurance call centre morons...
Read this : https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Pub... (ABI Winter Tyres guide & promises)
marshalla said:
Read this : https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Pub... (ABI Winter Tyres guide & promises)
Thanks. I'm with direct line and have winters on the car already so no problems with me at least. Am I to deduce that some insurers care when you put on tyres that improve road holding during the winter months but aren't bothered when people put cheapo ditchfinders on? Very happy to be proven wrong on that one!marshalla said:
Read this : https://www.abi.org.uk/~/media/Files/Documents/Pub... (ABI Winter Tyres guide & promises)
7 pages of morons all saying that the amount of cover won't be affected and hardly any saying you even need to let them know. Morons the lot of them.
ModernAndy said:
Am I to deduce that some insurers care when you put on tyres that improve road holding during the winter months but aren't bothered when people put cheapo ditchfinders on? Very happy to be proven wrong on that one!
If they ask about "any modifications" you should tell them about any modifications. It doesn't follow that they'll charge extra for each and every modification.But to play devil's advocate... when the snow starts falling some people put winter tyres on and go for long drives in the mountains, other people stay at home and put the kettle on. Which group would you rather be insuring on a winter's day? That's the thing about modifications - whether they actually make the car safer or more dangerous is often less important than what they say about the person driving it.
ModernAndy said:
Thanks. I'm with direct line and have winters on the car already so no problems with me at least. Am I to deduce that some insurers care when you put on tyres that improve road holding during the winter months but aren't bothered when people put cheapo ditchfinders on? Very happy to be proven wrong on that one!
A "cheapo ditchfinder" is still a tyre which will be approved for sale following meeting the necessary criteria. Just because you're a snob with your tyres doesn't mean that a normal family car has to have the latest and greatest tyres on it. Aretnap said:
If they ask about "any modifications" you should tell them about any modifications. It doesn't follow that they'll charge extra for each and every modification.
But to play devil's advocate... when the snow starts falling some people put winter tyres on and go for long drives in the mountains, other people stay at home and put the kettle on. Which group would you rather be insuring on a winter's day? That's the thing about modifications - whether they actually make the car safer or more dangerous is often less important than what they say about the person driving it.
You don't have to declare a change of tyre, or brand. Just as you don't have to declare wear and tear replacements on a like for like for basis on any part of any car. Upgrade them and they need declaring, add something that wasn't there as standard and you have to declare it, ditto if you take something away and don't replace it. But to play devil's advocate... when the snow starts falling some people put winter tyres on and go for long drives in the mountains, other people stay at home and put the kettle on. Which group would you rather be insuring on a winter's day? That's the thing about modifications - whether they actually make the car safer or more dangerous is often less important than what they say about the person driving it.
Common sense does still apply. For example putting on a better set of wiper blades, or little metal dustcaps is pretty obviously not necessary to declare. Before anyone asks, the limit is when applying common sense says you've passed the limit. If you haven't got any common sense, then declare everything.
Finally, if the car is bought second hand then apply a reasonable measure. Would it be reasonable for a reasonable person to know that it was a modification? So an internal air filter fitted by the previous owner wouldn't affect you, unless you were aware of it. A set of aftermarket alloys should be declared as a reasonable person would know they are not standard fit.
LoonR1 said:
ModernAndy said:
Thanks. I'm with direct line and have winters on the car already so no problems with me at least. Am I to deduce that some insurers care when you put on tyres that improve road holding during the winter months but aren't bothered when people put cheapo ditchfinders on? Very happy to be proven wrong on that one!
A "cheapo ditchfinder" is still a tyre which will be approved for sale following meeting the necessary criteria. Just because you're a snob with your tyres doesn't mean that a normal family car has to have the latest and greatest tyres on it. I would also add that far from your assumption, I don't think everybody needs to spend top dollar on their car's tyres. I do usually buy the best premium tyres (well, it's been mostly continental of late) for my cars and vans but I understand that there is a lot of money to be saved by getting something marginally less good. There is a huge difference between marginally less good and the 'ditchfinder' though. I do reserve the term for properly crap tyres, stuff like Barum, Kumho, etc. is fine in my book even though they're maybe not brands I'd buy.
My point was that how can a winter tyre be any further from the original tyres on a car than one of the sort of tyres you can buy for £30-40 which I'm sure we can all agree are utterly crap?
To the untrained eye, insurance companies are very odd.
They don't seem to give a toss whether one fits ditchfinders or Pirellis, but do seem to care whether one is a chef (pub) or a chef (restaurant).
I'm sure there must be some reasoning behind it (the difference in price is the result of conscious effort. The private sector abhors any waste in this area), but it is extremely well hidden.
They don't seem to give a toss whether one fits ditchfinders or Pirellis, but do seem to care whether one is a chef (pub) or a chef (restaurant).
I'm sure there must be some reasoning behind it (the difference in price is the result of conscious effort. The private sector abhors any waste in this area), but it is extremely well hidden.
ModernAndy said:
Firstly, I'm happy to be called a tyre snob if it means I'm seen as discerning enough to spend an extra £50 or so a year to have tyres that still grip the road when you need them to. I honestly think some of the worst ditchfinder makes should be banned outright as they are ridiculously poor compared to even mid-range brands in certain conditions which we experience regularly in the UK. Secondly, what point are you making other than an ad hominem attack? Are winter tyres not also approved for sale in the same way? You obviously have the superior knowledge of the insurance industry so that's a genuine question and I can see you don't agree that a few insurance companies are bothered with being told about winter tyres.
I would also add that far from your assumption, I don't think everybody needs to spend top dollar on their car's tyres. I do usually buy the best premium tyres (well, it's been mostly continental of late) for my cars and vans but I understand that there is a lot of money to be saved by getting something marginally less good. There is a huge difference between marginally less good and the 'ditchfinder' though. I do reserve the term for properly crap tyres, stuff like Barum, Kumho, etc. is fine in my book even though they're maybe not brands I'd buy.
My point was that how can a winter tyre be any further from the original tyres on a car than one of the sort of tyres you can buy for £30-40 which I'm sure we can all agree are utterly crap?
If you choose to fit winter tyres then you can with pretty well no insurance impact at all. I think three or four on there ask for 5 mins of your time to let them know, the rest don't care. The reason is that it doesn't affect risk one way or the other as far as they can see, so they can't be bothered to gather any more data. I would also add that far from your assumption, I don't think everybody needs to spend top dollar on their car's tyres. I do usually buy the best premium tyres (well, it's been mostly continental of late) for my cars and vans but I understand that there is a lot of money to be saved by getting something marginally less good. There is a huge difference between marginally less good and the 'ditchfinder' though. I do reserve the term for properly crap tyres, stuff like Barum, Kumho, etc. is fine in my book even though they're maybe not brands I'd buy.
My point was that how can a winter tyre be any further from the original tyres on a car than one of the sort of tyres you can buy for £30-40 which I'm sure we can all agree are utterly crap?
On to your main point. The tyres that are sold in the UK are all approved and as such they are all legal. Insurers aren't likely to ask what tyre you've got, any more than we care what colour your car is, or whether it's got red or black seats. Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be banned is moot. You are on a car forum where we're all hardcore petrolheads in one guise or another. If you go on a bakery site there will be someone arguing over using Tesco own brand flour, claiming it's offensive and only Mothers Pride will do. I'm sure you couldn't care less about that, much as they couldn't care less about your views on tyres.
Most people don't buy cars as a passion, they buy them to get from Ato B and if they need to buy a tyre then they buy the cheapest one. Much like many on here buy the cheapest insurance, now don't get me started on that and why the really cheap crap stuff should be banned and we should all be forced to buy specialist cover only
LoonR1 said:
ModernAndy said:
Firstly, I'm happy to be called a tyre snob if it means I'm seen as discerning enough to spend an extra £50 or so a year to have tyres that still grip the road when you need them to. I honestly think some of the worst ditchfinder makes should be banned outright as they are ridiculously poor compared to even mid-range brands in certain conditions which we experience regularly in the UK. Secondly, what point are you making other than an ad hominem attack? Are winter tyres not also approved for sale in the same way? You obviously have the superior knowledge of the insurance industry so that's a genuine question and I can see you don't agree that a few insurance companies are bothered with being told about winter tyres.
I would also add that far from your assumption, I don't think everybody needs to spend top dollar on their car's tyres. I do usually buy the best premium tyres (well, it's been mostly continental of late) for my cars and vans but I understand that there is a lot of money to be saved by getting something marginally less good. There is a huge difference between marginally less good and the 'ditchfinder' though. I do reserve the term for properly crap tyres, stuff like Barum, Kumho, etc. is fine in my book even though they're maybe not brands I'd buy.
My point was that how can a winter tyre be any further from the original tyres on a car than one of the sort of tyres you can buy for £30-40 which I'm sure we can all agree are utterly crap?
If you choose to fit winter tyres then you can with pretty well no insurance impact at all. I think three or four on there ask for 5 mins of your time to let them know, the rest don't care. The reason is that it doesn't affect risk one way or the other as far as they can see, so they can't be bothered to gather any more data. I would also add that far from your assumption, I don't think everybody needs to spend top dollar on their car's tyres. I do usually buy the best premium tyres (well, it's been mostly continental of late) for my cars and vans but I understand that there is a lot of money to be saved by getting something marginally less good. There is a huge difference between marginally less good and the 'ditchfinder' though. I do reserve the term for properly crap tyres, stuff like Barum, Kumho, etc. is fine in my book even though they're maybe not brands I'd buy.
My point was that how can a winter tyre be any further from the original tyres on a car than one of the sort of tyres you can buy for £30-40 which I'm sure we can all agree are utterly crap?
On to your main point. The tyres that are sold in the UK are all approved and as such they are all legal. Insurers aren't likely to ask what tyre you've got, any more than we care what colour your car is, or whether it's got red or black seats. Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be banned is moot. You are on a car forum where we're all hardcore petrolheads in one guise or another. If you go on a bakery site there will be someone arguing over using Tesco own brand flour, claiming it's offensive and only Mothers Pride will do. I'm sure you couldn't care less about that, much as they couldn't care less about your views on tyres.
Most people don't buy cars as a passion, they buy them to get from Ato B and if they need to buy a tyre then they buy the cheapest one. Much like many on here buy the cheapest insurance, now don't get me started on that and why the really cheap crap stuff should be banned and we should all be forced to buy specialist cover only
ModernAndy said:
Well there's lots to agree on there. I'm sure I think of this as a non-issue as much as you do but it just strikes me as ridiculous that an insurance company would need to be informed of winter tyres when you could put the most amazingly shoddy (but legal) summer tyres on and it makes no difference to them. I get what you're saying though, it's up to them and if you don't want to have to deal with those sorts of rules then shop around.
To cheer you up, I had my winter tyres fitted today. The sad bit was that I avoided the run over the tops whilst on my non-winters amd used the motorway as it was less likely to be snow covered. Once I'd got them fitted and dropped the summer tyres back at the unit I was happily sloshing my way through inches of the stuff at a fair old speed and overtaking like a 17 year old on GTA. Maybe winter tyres are like ABS, in that many of us use them as a performance enhancement rather than a safety feature. LoonR1 said:
To cheer you up, I had my winter tyres fitted today. The sad bit was that I avoided the run over the tops whilst on my non-winters amd used the motorway as it was less likely to be snow covered. Once I'd got them fitted and dropped the summer tyres back at the unit I was happily sloshing my way through inches of the stuff at a fair old speed and overtaking like a 17 year old on GTA. Maybe winter tyres are like ABS, in that many of us use them as a performance enhancement rather than a safety feature.
I wouldn't want to give the impression that I think people should be forced to use them but I don't think I'll ever go another winter without them. I still f
king hate ditchfinders though!!! 
Hamish Finn said:
You've obviously had experience of them then! Do tell.
Yes, mother-in-law's cars, having worked in the motor trade and moving trade-ins on, plenty of other reasons but I don't buy them. Unfortunately they're just everywhere now. The cheapest tyres I've bought in recent years would probably be Barum Bravuris 2's and they were okay apart from taking only 10k to wear out.Document said:
As can be seen, often motor insurers will not charge an additional premium when their
insured customers use winter tyres, provided that they meet, and are fitted in accordance
with, the vehicle manufacturers’ specifications
That quote, from the ABI document, still leaves the original question unanswered.insured customers use winter tyres, provided that they meet, and are fitted in accordance
with, the vehicle manufacturers’ specifications
Lower speed rated tyres are not to "Manufacturers specification", so would you be covered or not?
Edited by DragsterRR on Sunday 22 November 11:11
DragsterRR said:
That quote, from the ABI document, still leaves the original question unanswered.
Lower speed rated tyres are not to "Manufacturers specification", so would you be covered or not?
My handbook lists winter tyres with a lower speed rating, so I am covered.Lower speed rated tyres are not to "Manufacturers specification", so would you be covered or not?
Audi have a list : https://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/winter.html
In fact, since winter tyres are mandatory in some countries where cars are sold (!) I think you'll find that manufacturers actually provide a specification for winter tyres somewhere, if you look for it.
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