Can I remove Microsoft .net framework?

Can I remove Microsoft .net framework?

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QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Hi
I have been running the same computer for 8 years and have started to run out of space on the C drive.

So I am looking for things to delete, and so far have deleted 4 accounting programmes I never use these days. That's 2 Gb freed up.
Another sizeable space-taker is about 5 versions of Microsoft .net framework. No idea what they do - they say i haven't used them for several years.
However, I get a dire warning when I start the uninstall process, saying that deleting them may stop other programmes from working.

Can I proceed, or should I stop? I think the latest one I have is Framework 4, but I have 1.1, 2, 3, 3.5, 4 and 4 extended. 3.5 says i haven't used it for 6 years.
If I cannot delete 4, can I delete the earlier versions without affecting 4? I have a vague feeling it relates back to when I used Messenger.

Second question - I have a very old version of Sage accounting on the computer, and when I try to uninstall it, the computer cannot find an old enough version of the uninstall programme to do the job - is there a way around this? It is taking half a gig of space and hasn't been used for over 6 years.

Yes, I know I should just go and buy a new computer, but this 17 inch MacBook Pro has served me well and has loads of personal as well as business stuff on it. And yes, it is backed up.

Dr Mike Oxgreen

4,114 posts

165 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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.NET is a "framework": a collection of functions that other programs can use. I would say it's very likely that you ARE using it, whether you realise it or not, because lots of software is written using .NET and will not work without it.

The warning you received is true: some software may stop working if you remove it. However, if that were to happen all you'd need to do is reinstall .NET and those programs would start working again.

I can't think of a reason why you would need to keep old versions lying around. I believe each version of .NET is supposed to provide compatible functionality so that older software should be happy using the newer version. Try moving them somewhere else so that the system can't find them, leaving only your newest version, and see if anything breaks. If not, then you could ditch them.

You could try removing them all and see what happens - but I would say that .NET is sufficiently important that you should keep it.

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
Thanks Dr Mike. I will just leave well alone and see if i can increase the size of my C drive

I just posted this on the Mac help forum:


Hi, I have a partition re-sizing question. At least, I think I have.
I have a MacBook Pro 5.2, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.66 GHz, about 7-8 years old I think.
Love the computer, run my business on it.

It's hard disk is partitioned into 297GB Mac OS 10.6.8 Z drive, 31 GB Windows XP drive.
I have 140Gb free space on the Mac Z drive, but only about 2 Gb free space on the Windows C drive.
And that 2 Gb has only been won by removing four programmes I rarely use.

Logic says give the Windows drive more space, but is that possible? Logic also says go spend £400 at PC Worm and get a new computer.....but I like this one.

Before you go all "Mac is best, why do you have Windows?" on me, I agree, but I am an accountant and most of my clients are running their accounts in Windows programmes. Also, the tax and accounts prep software I use is only available in Windows versions.

Edited to rephrase:

I don't have a partitioned disk - I have a single Mac disk according to Disk Utility, 320GB in size, with 140 GB unused.
However, if I click on "My Computer" within Windows, I have a C drive of 31.9GB and a Z drive of 297 Gb, the Z drive having about 140Gb of unused space.
So my question should be, how do I take some of the Z drive and give it to the C drive, please?
Also, how come I have more disk space on those two disks than I have on the computer in total? Is the C drive inside the Z drive?

UpTheIron

3,996 posts

268 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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QBee said:
Love the computer, run my business on it.
Please, please tell me you have a robust backup strategy...

Goaty Bill 2

3,403 posts

119 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Hi Qbee.

There are utilities that can modify partition sizes for you.
Like; make Z smaller, and give the free space to C. But I'm not clear from your description on exactly how your disk is configured, and must admit I have never done a Mac.

As you are clearly not quite expert on the subject, I would strongly advise finding someone who is to take care of it for you.

One option should be to acquire a larger hard disk, make an image copy of your existing disk, then put the backup image on the new, larger drive. Then resizing the new disk.

In my case, with my latest disk upgrade, I imaged each logical drive/partition separately and created the partitions/drives on the new disk of the sizes I wanted, then placed the individual images on the new disk/drives and gained the extra space that way.

In order to do this, you either need a second computer, with the appropriate utility software, into which you place you old/new hard disks as required and carry out the operations, or a bootable CD/DVD running Linux with the utility software installed there.
These type of utility disks are quite available and I am sure someone will be advising on the latest and best ones shortly.

Just one piece of further advice at this point; if you choose to modify your existing disk, make sure you have a full backup of the original physical disk before you start.
Ask any backup administrator and they will tell you; a backup is only a guaranteed good backup when you have restored from it and proven that the restore process worked.

UpTheIron said:
Please, please tell me you have a robust backup strategy...
And as I was typing...




bitchstewie

51,106 posts

210 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Download and run Treesize Pro on the Windows volume.

Have a Plan B - Windows XP is ancient and no longer supported by Microsoft.

AW111

9,674 posts

133 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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As Dr MO says, you can uninstall .NET, and if something you need requires it, it is easy to reinstall.
I would remove all versions, and see what happens.

Also, Windows stores a huge amount of backup info every time you install a service pack or windows update. I think there's a way to remove them, but I can't recall how at the moment.

If you right click on the C drive in windows file explorer, there is a menu which has a "Tools" option, and one of those is "disk cleanup", which allows you to remove some temporary files etc.
Hint : Easiest way to start Windows file explorer is the windows key + "E"

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
Food for thought, thanks guys.

I have a TimeMachine backup that I use regularly, backing up onto a My Passport drive for Mac, and back in the mists of time I set it to back up everything, including my entire C drive......but a check of what it is actually backing up is a good plan for today. The backups should be 180GB, I guess...... (320 disk - 140 free space). I will have a shuftie at the backup drive.
I probably should get a second drive and do a different kind of backup, at least of the business part and my photos. PC World is 2.9 miles away, and almost on my way to Asda and the park, my other targets for this morning.
Finally, I do have an ex-client who are a Mac support company of some considerable standing. You never know, they might still be speaking to me.....! Re-sizing the C drive to say 80GB will address the C drive disk space issue and, with a defrag as well, will probably improve running speed and stability.
But I guess I do have to face the fact that my computer is 8 years old and is running old versions of the operating systems, MS Office and Parallels emulation software.

Odd thing is that my TVR is similarly vieux chapeau, yet is the most reliable car I own. My Audi is for ever having electrical faults and giving me weird fault messages (9 things that were working yesterday now not working, etc), my Saab is in pieces having the engine rebuilt (head gasket, valve guides, pistoff rings, timing chain all stuffed), and my wife's old Merc 4x4 is nearly as reliable as ever, but lost sight of it's crankshaft last Christmas, and first thing this morning it started up with a noise reminiscent of the Boy Scouts drumming with 500 kg of spare spanners. The only working car I had last Christmas Day was.......the TVR Chimaera. Thank God, because it was a glorious morning for a roof-off blast around the country lanes while Erin Dawes (she to whom I am related by marriage) did unmentionable things to some unsuspecting piece of poultry and then rammed it into the Rangemaster (which I hasten to add is NOT a 4.6 litre, mechanically unreliable, 4x4).

ging84

8,884 posts

146 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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You really should not try and resize the partitions on a laptop you are run your business on, even if you know what you are doing, there is a risk of data loss resizing a partition, particularly using older file systems, especially if you need to shrink one

To be honest though if your laptop is as important is you make out and as out of date as it seems to be, your problems go way deeper than just not having enough disk space you probably need to rethink your whole usage of IT
I would personally start by separating business and personal use
PCs are cheap, there is absolutely no reason not to have a work one an a personal one these days, you don't need to buy 2 £1500 mac books but if you are going to be keeping people's financial data on a laptop, you should at least upgrade to an OS with full disk encryption, if you ever take it out of the house then this is an absolute must.

davepoth

29,395 posts

199 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
ging84 said:
You really should not try and resize the partitions on a laptop you are run your business on, even if you know what you are doing, there is a risk of data loss resizing a partition, particularly using older file systems, especially if you need to shrink one

To be honest though if your laptop is as important is you make out and as out of date as it seems to be, your problems go way deeper than just not having enough disk space you probably need to rethink your whole usage of IT
I would personally start by separating business and personal use
PCs are cheap, there is absolutely no reason not to have a work one an a personal one these days, you don't need to buy 2 £1500 mac books but if you are going to be keeping people's financial data on a laptop, you should at least upgrade to an OS with full disk encryption, if you ever take it out of the house then this is an absolute must.
Absolutely that. If everything you need for your business works on an 8 year old XP PC with that small amount of disk space then you don't even need to spend £400 on a new one. A new laptop will have much better battery life as well, which is always a bonus.

Goaty Bill 2

3,403 posts

119 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
ging84 said:
You really should not try and resize the partitions on a laptop you are run your business on, even if you know what you are doing, there is a risk of data loss resizing a partition, particularly using older file systems, especially if you need to shrink one
Agreed, always a risk. Which is why I would go for the new disk, and copy the drive images in, retaining both the original hard disk, and images.


ging84 said:
I would personally start by separating business and personal use
PCs are cheap, there is absolutely no reason not to have a work one an a personal one these days, you don't need to buy 2 £1500 mac books but if you are going to be keeping people's financial data on a laptop, you should at least upgrade to an OS with full disk encryption, if you ever take it out of the house then this is an absolute must.
Shame on me for not considering this aspect.
Again, I totally agree regarding the security aspect, though a new OS may not be the only answer.
A basic principal of data/system security is however; once you have lost control of the hardware, you have lost control of the data. It will virtually always be recoverable by the 'right' people.
That said, one should always do the very best to ensure that recovery is as difficult as possible thus making the chances of the data getting into the wild, as small as possible.

Personally, if ever I have to take sensitive data (would pretty much never happens given my specialisation), or proprietary software source code anywhere with me, it would be on a memory stick, which when not in use goes straight into my trouser pocket, even when just popping out for a cigarette, coffee or lunch. But I also lock my screen every time before I stand up from my desk as well.
I always suppose that my trousers will be pretty much the last thing anyone will steal, and I would likely be dead at that point. eek (I don't carry anything so valuable that it would warrant killing me, nor am I so deluded as to think so, it's just the logical conclusion to my reasoning)
Ideally, the memory stick should also be encrypted.
But we could easily go way off topic on the subject of security.

FourWheelDrift

88,486 posts

284 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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QBee said:
Second question - I have a very old version of Sage accounting on the computer, and when I try to uninstall it, the computer cannot find an old enough version of the uninstall programme to do the job - is there a way around this? It is taking half a gig of space and hasn't been used for over 6 years.
Find the Sage accounts folder that corresponds to that version. Make sure it's the right one if you have more than one version installed, then double check it's the right one. Right click the folder and select properties (look the folder size, if it's around 500mb then almost if not all of the Sage data is in that folder.

Then just delete the folder. If you have it backed up anyway there's no problem if you need it back later. It will still appear in your uninstall list but sometime when you try uninstalling it after you have deleted it is says it can't find it and do you want to remove it from the list. If not it's not hurting anything. The only thing remaining will be the registry entry, but unless you know how to find it and remove it, or use one of the registry cleaner tools it's best to leave it as it won't cause harm.

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
Thanks again guys for such detailed and considered support. Sorry, but what is an encrypted operating system? I have my laptop password protected, but that's all.

Ok, so I toddled the 2.9 miles to Curried PC World and Archie, who i believe hails from Warsaw, was a great help and answered all my questions, looked up details, and from their stock recommended a Lenovo laptop.
His rationale is that I use more than one memory hungry application at once (Excel grabs memory, and my tax software has the same habit), which I have already noticed was slowing my Apple down, and I want my computer to be a pleasure to use as I am on it for a number of hours every day.

The spec on the Lenovo is a good solid case, extended keyboard, 1900 x 1080 screen, 12 Gb Ram, i7 processor running a 2.5 GHz clock speed. It also has all the connectivity I presently need. Price £600. I have to say that my eyesight is no longer 20/20, so i appreciate a high res screen like I presently have. At home I use the 1900x 1200 Apple screen on my laptop, plus an 28 inch full HD monitor. I use just the laptop when out and about.

I can clearly get a pretty good laptop for £400 - is this Lenovo a computer and a make you would recommend, or overkill/rubbish and therefore a Le[b]no-no[\b]
It's this one, but in silver, not white

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/lap...

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
PS, just done another backup using Time Machine on the Mac. The file size of the backup itself is 160Gb. My computer has a 320 Gb HDD, and it says it has 140Gb free space. Implication is that I have backed up everything, with the possible exception of the Operating System?

bitchstewie

51,106 posts

210 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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An encrypted disk means that if your laptop gets stolen all your clients details aren't with someone else.

A "password protected laptop" may or may not mean that is the case right now.

Work out if you want Mac or Windows and go from there.

If you want both, buy a new Macbook and buy Parallels or VMware Fusion or use Apple's Bootcamp and have both.

Either way you need solid backups and Time Machine alone is not sufficient IMO, you want something totally offline and offsite if you're a business and place any importance on staying in business.

You also possibly need to take the security of your clients data a lot more seriously from the way you've explained how things are setup - some if it just good practise, and whilst I'm not sure there may be some regulatory/compliance requirements in there too.

BraveSirRobin

842 posts

282 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
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bhstewie's advice above seems pretty sound to me.
TBH a 16GB i7 Windows laptop sounds like overkill for what you need. How much memory does your current setup have?

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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BraveSirRobin said:
bhstewie's advice above seems pretty sound to me.
TBH a 16GB i7 Windows laptop sounds like overkill for what you need. How much memory does your current setup have?
4GB RAM, 2.66Ghz clock speed core 2 duo processor, 320 GB HDD.
What I do will run on anything, I agree. I don't need terabytes of disk space, now or later. I have 140GB spare space on my present laptop.

The question is one of what do I need vs what would be nice to use day in, day out. I use the computer for a lot of the day, every working day.

The three things I would like are a really good, sharp, high resolution screen, for the days when I have to work on the laptop screen with my less then perfect eye-sight when out at clients (presently working at my home office on a 28 inch monitor attached to the laptop), reliability, and a computer that handles several RAM-hungry programmes open at once, and does so quickly, both now and in the future. I would rather spend a bit more now and get those things, plus a robust construction, than spend the minimum and regret it later. My nicely built Apple computer, carved out of a solid block of aluminium, fell off the desk onto a hard floor one evening. I heard the crash. I picked it up, examined the dent on the back left corner, feared the worst, but when I opened the lid it simply worked.

In my mind, quite possibly incorrectly, I liken it to choosing a car for the 30,000 miles a year I do travelling for work. I won't spend a lot on a car, and spend my driving life mainly on the A1/A14/M11 in quite heavy traffic. I don't spend more than £3,000 buying the car, but when choosing even at that level, I am happier in a decent sized, well specified, middle to large executive barge, travelling in comfort and peace and with some protection from crashes around me. I [i]could[\i] do the journeys in a clean and tidy Ford Fiesta, but I would have less protection against crashes and would be less relaxed when I arrived 90-135 miles later.

So what I am looking for is a fast, quality processor, decent clock speed, plenty of RAM, robust case and that all important good quality screen. Those things all in one package tend to equate to spending £600, not £300. I don't see the need to spend £1000, I agree.

But I would welcome more thoughts please.

mikef

4,863 posts

251 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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It sounds as though you keep a computer for 5 years plus. If that were me I would follow one of two strategies - either buy a computer that can still be expected to be a reasonable spec in 5 years given the rate of progress in power, connectivity, etc. Something like maybe this Dell XPS 15. Or buy one that just does what you need now like a £400 Lenovo and then in three years hand it down and do the same again.

And remember the golden rule of backups - 3 copies, one of them off-site (which is much easier to do in these days of fibre internet and cloud storage)

QBee

Original Poster:

20,953 posts

144 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
quotequote all
I do tend to look after my laptops and make them last longer. They have always been Apples so far, which are really well built. The only others are one Dell in about 1999 (nightmare) and one Sony Vaio, replacing the Dell. Both were bought to run Windows only tax and accounting software, and were used alongside my Apple. As soon as Apple went Intel and got the Windows compatibility software right, I stopped using Windows laptops and went entirely Apple. Before that, a report that took 30 seconds to run in Sage for Windows took upwards of 8 hours to run on Sage for Windows, loaded on the Mac!

The main reason for resistance to change has been the complexity of updating software, never mind changing computer. Hence partly the wish now to ditch Apple (I only use its Apple software for Email, Safari and photos). I can easily manage those functions on Windows. By ditching the Apple I reduce the need to, and risk of, updating two lots of operating system plus Parallels to the need to update Windows. Starting with W 10, that shouldn't need to happen for a week or two. I also have to move to the new computer the remote access links I use to several of my clients' computers, and reload and transfer my proprietary accounts preparation and tax software, with the client files associated with each. I know it's not major, probably no more than a day's work, plus dealing with the fallout over the next month or so.

Thanks for everyone's advice on encryption and backups. I will take appropriate action, including cloud backups and encrypting the hard disk. By chance I had a chat with a guy at a building client about computers yesterday. He has managed to encrypt his Apple hard drive after suffering a cyber-attack. I reckon if he can manage it, then so can I.

Goaty Bill 2

3,403 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th November 2015
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BraveSirRobin said:
bhstewie's advice above seems pretty sound to me.
TBH a 16GB i7 Windows laptop sounds like overkill for what you need. How much memory does your current setup have?
Agreed on part one but, I have never believed in examining the ROI too closely on the purchase of a PC for personal + business use.
Anyone who uses their PC/laptop for more than work should take into account the 'toy factor' along with "how soon do I want to be doing this again?".
One thing I know about Mr. QBee from other forums (and bless Mrs. QBee for being of an understanding nature), is that he likes his toys biggrin
One of the reasons the current rig is still satisfying requirements (aside from disk space), is that it was when purchased, probably a fairly high specification.

A factor that many people miss, if you are moving from x86 to x64, then what 4GB once did for you, you now require (more or less) 8GB. It was the same when we moved from Win 3.11 / Win 95/98 to NT4 / 2000. It was the jump from 16bit processing to 32bit then. This time, from 32 to 64.

I have a 16GB memory on a single cpu Win7 'server' and I will be doubling the memory.

Having more memory than you need will often open up possibilities that one might never have considered previously. One example is Virtual Machines. It can make the running of other operating systems a much simpler prospect, and the safe backup plus full restore of a VM in case of failure couldn't be easier. This being one of the major considerations for businesses to move to VMs.

I remember specing a new workstation and server combination for home once.
All my colleagues said "what in God's name do you need 240 MB of RAM for on a WinNT4 server?"
A few years later, I built a new server, and used 4GB for WinNT4.
As above; latest is using 16GB and I am wanting more. All three servers ran/run the 'same' software, just later versions.

Screen sizes / resolutions / refresh rate / dot pitch/pixels can never be over done IMO. Especially as we get older. What you can afford, get it.

Anyway, if as QBee's last post suggests, the difference is £300 or £600; he spends more than that on Petrol for a weekend of recreational driving