Dying without a wil
Discussion
,My father is 78 now and won't make a will.
His hasn't really got any assets of value. He's married but his (much younger) wife left him about 6 years ago. They are not divorced. She is a fairly reasonable sort.
My Mother is still alive and they have always been on good terms. There's a real possibility of them living together in the future. She has no assets either.
What would happen if he was to die either before, or after him and my Mother, lived together.
Do we have any legal rights? If he was ill and unable to look after himself, would we be able to help or make any decisions on his behalf?
His next of kin is, I assume, his Wife.
His hasn't really got any assets of value. He's married but his (much younger) wife left him about 6 years ago. They are not divorced. She is a fairly reasonable sort.
My Mother is still alive and they have always been on good terms. There's a real possibility of them living together in the future. She has no assets either.
What would happen if he was to die either before, or after him and my Mother, lived together.
Do we have any legal rights? If he was ill and unable to look after himself, would we be able to help or make any decisions on his behalf?
His next of kin is, I assume, his Wife.
Slightly messy : Try the intestacy flowchart to see what ought to happen : https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...
Thanks. There's no value in his estate. What I'm worried about is having no say in funereal arrangements etc without really involving his Wife and ensuring that his and my Mothers wishes are followed.
Why the stubborn old bloke won't make a will or list his request is beyond me.
I've got no problem with his Wife, she was very nice but no longer has any involvement in his life.
My Mother and Father have known each other ALL their lives and are real "soul mates".
I love my Dad, but he's always avoided difficult situations
Why the stubborn old bloke won't make a will or list his request is beyond me.
I've got no problem with his Wife, she was very nice but no longer has any involvement in his life.
My Mother and Father have known each other ALL their lives and are real "soul mates".
I love my Dad, but he's always avoided difficult situations
Edited by stuartmmcfc on Sunday 22 November 13:13
Neither the intestacy rules nor wills carry any weight when it comes to the funeral. A will might specify wishes, but no more than that. Short of getting seriously legal, with restraining orders et al, it's pretty much a first-come-first-served, with whoever has the body having first dibs...
As far as the intestacy rules go, question 1 - is there a living spouse? Yes.
Question 2 - is there more than £250k? No.
So... the spouse gets the lot.
If that's not what he wants, then he needs to sort it out one way or the other - divorce (in which case, it'll go evenly between his kids) or will.
To make decisions on his behalf, you need Power of Attorney. Do it now, while he has marbles.
As far as the intestacy rules go, question 1 - is there a living spouse? Yes.
Question 2 - is there more than £250k? No.
So... the spouse gets the lot.
If that's not what he wants, then he needs to sort it out one way or the other - divorce (in which case, it'll go evenly between his kids) or will.
To make decisions on his behalf, you need Power of Attorney. Do it now, while he has marbles.
DIW35 said:
It's amazing how much of a person's estate goes to the government if they die intestate. For that reason alone it's worth making a will.
None, if there are living relatives. Which is quite amazing, I grant you. You'd think the govt would have their sticky fingers all over it. stuartmmcfc said:
,My father is 78 now and won't make a will.
His hasn't really got any assets of value. He's married but his (much younger) wife left him about 6 years ago. They are not divorced.
In England and Wales, should the total value of the estate be £250k or less his wife will get the lot.His hasn't really got any assets of value. He's married but his (much younger) wife left him about 6 years ago. They are not divorced.
If it's more than that then the provisions of the Inheritance and Trustees’ Powers Act 2014 will apply
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/advi...
stuartmmcfc said:
If he was ill and unable to look after himself, would we be able to help or make any decisions on his behalf?
His next of kin is, I assume, his Wife.
I assume you are talking about a situation arising where he lacks capacity.His next of kin is, I assume, his Wife.
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documen...
As he is still legally married, if a LPA is put in place naming someone else other than his wife (e.g. you/your mother) it might be wise to tread carefully.
Especially where money and property in concerned.
littleredrooster said:
DIW35 said:
It's amazing how much of a person's estate goes to the government if they die intestate. For that reason alone it's worth making a will.
Utter nonsense. If you want to post badly-informed s
te, can you please do it in another forum?te. Famous for it, in fact.I wondered about his possessions that have sentimental value. I guess the value of his estate would amount to a few thousand. It's not the money at all though. His Wife lives in Ireland. I don't even know how to contact her.
What would happen regards access to his home if she shows no interest? There's things like his model trains which have a value of less than a £100 but we played with them when I was a child, I hate to think of them going in a bin. There's numerous things like that. It's alright him saying " help yourself to what ever you want" but if they're not legally ours to take or my Sister and I both would like the same item as a memory I.d hate to fall out.
What about his dog? I dont really want it, but if his Wife decided to give it away, how could I stop her? I owe it to my Dad to look after it.
I have no issue with his Wife at all ( and hopefully she felt the same way)but the way she left shows her true colours imho. I could potentially see her being quite difficult about it.
I also was concerned about funereal arrangements and how my Mothers feelings over what may happen could be overridden by the legal rights of his Wife.
It's all fairly small but I wondered if a will or something could tie these loose ends up before the envitable happened and we're trying to guess what he wanted.
I'm trying to convince him that he needs to make some sort of plan, but I've been on about it for the last 5 years with no luck.
If he got divorced then it'd make life a lot easier but he seems to have no desire for some strange reason. He worries about the cost I think but on principle doesn't see why he should bear the cost.
What would happen regards access to his home if she shows no interest? There's things like his model trains which have a value of less than a £100 but we played with them when I was a child, I hate to think of them going in a bin. There's numerous things like that. It's alright him saying " help yourself to what ever you want" but if they're not legally ours to take or my Sister and I both would like the same item as a memory I.d hate to fall out.
What about his dog? I dont really want it, but if his Wife decided to give it away, how could I stop her? I owe it to my Dad to look after it.
I have no issue with his Wife at all ( and hopefully she felt the same way)but the way she left shows her true colours imho. I could potentially see her being quite difficult about it.
I also was concerned about funereal arrangements and how my Mothers feelings over what may happen could be overridden by the legal rights of his Wife.
It's all fairly small but I wondered if a will or something could tie these loose ends up before the envitable happened and we're trying to guess what he wanted.
I'm trying to convince him that he needs to make some sort of plan, but I've been on about it for the last 5 years with no luck.
If he got divorced then it'd make life a lot easier but he seems to have no desire for some strange reason. He worries about the cost I think but on principle doesn't see why he should bear the cost.
Edited by stuartmmcfc on Sunday 22 November 21:05
DIW35 said:
It's amazing how much of a person's estate goes to the government if they die intestate. For that reason alone it's worth making a will.
Typing in a rush before going out.Perhaps if I had said 'It's amazing how much of a person's estate can go to the government if they die intestate. For that reason alone it's worth making a will.' which is what I actually meant, it wouldn't have attracted some of the vitriol that this forum is also famous for.
DIW35 said:
Perhaps if I had said 'It's amazing how much of a person's estate can go to the government if they die intestate. For that reason alone it's worth making a will.' which is what I actually meant, it wouldn't have attracted some of the vitriol that this forum is also famous for.
Yes, perhaps if you'd said something else entirely, the reaction to what you said would have been different.stuartmmcfc said:
Thanks, but just to confirm there's no money or property involved.
I find that hard to believe unless he is entirely financially dependent on others. Even a £50 bank balance or cash stashed under the mattress counts as part of his estate. By property I assume you mean real property (i.e. a dwelling)). His personal possessions (chattels) are still (moveable) property.stuartmmcfc said:
I'm trying to convince him that he needs to make some sort of plan, but I've been on about it for the last 5 years with no luck.
If he got divorced then it'd make life a lot easier but he seems to have no desire for some strange reason. He worries about the cost I think but on principle doesn't see why he should bear the cost.
Have you/your mother explained to him that his 'help yourself to whatever you want' could cause complications afterwards? If his wife subsequently discovers that there has been an illegal disposal she could, if she is minded to, make life difficult for your family. If he got divorced then it'd make life a lot easier but he seems to have no desire for some strange reason. He worries about the cost I think but on principle doesn't see why he should bear the cost.
Does he comprehend that his wife inherits everything he owns if he leaves no will? Maybe the lack of desire to make one is because he actually wants her to inherit but can't bring himself to tell you.
As far as the cost of a divorce is concerned the fee just for issuing the petition is £410. He may also not be confident about d-i-y. If so, there will be other (possibly significant) costs to be budgeted for. I can see why that may be a concern to him. Standing on principle is usually a smokescreen for another motive.
You may not know how to contact her but the question is does he? An address will be needed to serve the papers. Btw, which side of the Irish border is that?
If he won't do a Will, will he consider a PoA?
Google the Gov.uk website for their PoA tool - online and dead easy..... You can do it and simply then try and get him to sign it? Get his best mate onside and be the Certificate Provider.
You won't regret it and he will probably qualify for a discount?
Google the Gov.uk website for their PoA tool - online and dead easy..... You can do it and simply then try and get him to sign it? Get his best mate onside and be the Certificate Provider.
You won't regret it and he will probably qualify for a discount?
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