Toe in the water - first steps in cars for a young driver?
Discussion
I must say that karting will be the most cost effective route to racing, great place to learn you craft without big bills generally. When I say karting I mean proper stuff like Club100 or MSA events with 2 stroke karts.
I did this for quite a few years before I did some sprints and hills in my Westfield. Both were fun, but it's the karting where I got to enjoy wheel to wheel racing.
If he does well at karting then can move onto cars in sprints or races, but racing a car is never going to be low cost, although Locost racing do their best with 7 type vehicles but using 1300cc cross flows with single carb to control spend as best as possible.
I did this for quite a few years before I did some sprints and hills in my Westfield. Both were fun, but it's the karting where I got to enjoy wheel to wheel racing.
If he does well at karting then can move onto cars in sprints or races, but racing a car is never going to be low cost, although Locost racing do their best with 7 type vehicles but using 1300cc cross flows with single carb to control spend as best as possible.
NelsonP said:
Club 100. Yes, it is karting, rather than cars, but they are proper 2 strokes and there is no better place to perfect your racecraft, on a limited budget.
Damon Hill used to race in Club100 with his son, before he graduated to Ginettas. If it's good enough for an ex F1 champ.......
And a mate of mine used to race Clios, but said that the racing in Club 100 was much better and more fun.
Oh yeah, and Callum Lockie used to do it too, in between sporstcar races!
SS7, While you're deciding you can just do club100 Damon Hill used to race in Club100 with his son, before he graduated to Ginettas. If it's good enough for an ex F1 champ.......
And a mate of mine used to race Clios, but said that the racing in Club 100 was much better and more fun.
Oh yeah, and Callum Lockie used to do it too, in between sporstcar races!
Edited by NelsonP on Wednesday 25th November 12:27
Edited by NelsonP on Wednesday 25th November 12:29
then if the lad goes to Uni you could get him into BUKC 
RyanW said:
Fastest motorsport for the $$ has to be superkarts. initial outlay is fairly cheap, you can maintain the karts yourself, you get to race on long tracks and theres a few race series out there. These things are seriously fast!
Sort of beat me to it, karting. Proper karts are a quantum leap over anything you can hire irrespective of what people say. Grip, speed and performance are huge. Superkarts are amazing but more expensive. Karts can alos be easily stored, worked on and transported, Second hand ones can be had from just a few hundred pounds. Whatever you pitch in for:
Rule 1 - the higher the aim at the outset or going up the ladder, the more expensive it is.
Rule 2 - while being competitive, always remember that doing it is supposed to be fun.
Rule 3 - see Rule 1 and always remember Rule 2.
Karting is, indeed, one option, hugely quick and great fun - but is a bit skewed in terms of how you drive, kart/circuit lengths/widths, the racing itself etc, compared to cars.
Going with the question in the title of "first steps in cars" that rules out karts, so sprints and hillclimbs are, in my view, an ideal and great place to start. You have a wealth of different chanpionships to choose from to start in and progress through- marques, clubs, regional, national, classics and moderns, with classes from production to full on race cars. It ticks the real grass roots motorsport box as well, that of preparing and driving the car you will use to the venue, tape and number up, compete, remove tapes and numbers and then drive home. Use the car normally on the public highway the next day. As others have said it's a great introduction to car performance, tuning and handling.
In any form of circuit racing, no matter how well or fast you're driving, some other less talented or over-competitive nurk can and will punt you off, leaving you to fix the damage or at worst, stump up to get another car. By contrast, in sprints and hillclimbs, you learn/explore the envelope (and there are good, excellent value courses run by the major venues)during competiton without distractions and, if you cock it up, then you only have yourself to blame for a poor time or damage to the car.
With that grounding in relatively inexpensive, grass roots motorsport, then pick your time to shift up the classes or into circuit racing.
MG Mark
Rule 1 - the higher the aim at the outset or going up the ladder, the more expensive it is.
Rule 2 - while being competitive, always remember that doing it is supposed to be fun.
Rule 3 - see Rule 1 and always remember Rule 2.
Karting is, indeed, one option, hugely quick and great fun - but is a bit skewed in terms of how you drive, kart/circuit lengths/widths, the racing itself etc, compared to cars.
Going with the question in the title of "first steps in cars" that rules out karts, so sprints and hillclimbs are, in my view, an ideal and great place to start. You have a wealth of different chanpionships to choose from to start in and progress through- marques, clubs, regional, national, classics and moderns, with classes from production to full on race cars. It ticks the real grass roots motorsport box as well, that of preparing and driving the car you will use to the venue, tape and number up, compete, remove tapes and numbers and then drive home. Use the car normally on the public highway the next day. As others have said it's a great introduction to car performance, tuning and handling.
In any form of circuit racing, no matter how well or fast you're driving, some other less talented or over-competitive nurk can and will punt you off, leaving you to fix the damage or at worst, stump up to get another car. By contrast, in sprints and hillclimbs, you learn/explore the envelope (and there are good, excellent value courses run by the major venues)during competiton without distractions and, if you cock it up, then you only have yourself to blame for a poor time or damage to the car.
With that grounding in relatively inexpensive, grass roots motorsport, then pick your time to shift up the classes or into circuit racing.
MG Mark
MG Mark said:
By contrast, in sprints and hillclimbs, you learn/explore the envelope (and there are good, excellent value courses run by the major venues)during competiton without distractions and, if you cock it up, then you only have yourself to blame for a poor time or damage to the car.
Plus you can combine training with long weekend holidays.Harewood runs a good course I hear and whilst some things to hit, also a good selection of run offs. Diverse competition. Plenty running the smaller/cheaper cars.
Some good suggestions in here, my dad and I were in exactly the same position about 6 years ago when I turned 17. As suggested a few posts ago, we decided to buy a very cheap track day car so we could both drive 'the big circuits' together and learn as we went. This was a Mazda 323GT. There are many similar perfect starter track cars out there. We drove it to and from circuits, and the car cost no more than £2000 once prepared with a proper seat, harness etc. I remember doing over 100 miles of Snetterton on the first day and loved it, much more than you will ever get on an experience day. He will never be the fastest thing out there, but its the best way to get lots of seat time / experience driving on proper circuits. It is worth taking up the tuition options on many trackdays too. It will probably become a kick start to other things, I ended up racing MR2s and now am in the MX5 championship, again with very modest budgets.
I'd agree and say Club100. I did it for 6 years before moving to cars starting at 18. Taught me a great deal and I got to race a lot of very talented people, many of whom I ended up battling for championships over in Caterhams. Indeed some have even gone on to GP3, British GT and a few more.
If you fancy the idea of something to tinker with, rather than just an arrive and drive series, try the Club100 run EasyKart. I can't recommend enough the benefits of starting out in karts. It teaches you a lot about race craft, lines and reactions. Whilst it's unlikely you'll make it to F1, a few of us have made it to some fairly serious racing. I picked up some sponsorship and raced in British GT4 this year and got a couple of podiums! It takes a lot of time and persistence, and a reasonable wedge of money, but it's not impossible to do it on an average salary. I managed 3 seasons in Caterhams on a Graduate Engineer salary, which is higher than average, but certainly not comparable to anyone in finance or law!
If you fancy the idea of something to tinker with, rather than just an arrive and drive series, try the Club100 run EasyKart. I can't recommend enough the benefits of starting out in karts. It teaches you a lot about race craft, lines and reactions. Whilst it's unlikely you'll make it to F1, a few of us have made it to some fairly serious racing. I picked up some sponsorship and raced in British GT4 this year and got a couple of podiums! It takes a lot of time and persistence, and a reasonable wedge of money, but it's not impossible to do it on an average salary. I managed 3 seasons in Caterhams on a Graduate Engineer salary, which is higher than average, but certainly not comparable to anyone in finance or law!
Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 25th November 15:34
Vaud said:
Do you mind if I ask what a typical season costs all in? (MX5s)
It is very varied between competitors, there are some who will spend a lot, some who will spend less. Some will pay a team to run the car, some will do it by themselves. Some will test before every event and more, some won't. Once you have the car & safety gear, it has cost me around £5k for a season, including entry fees, fuel, getting there, some testing , consumables etc. This is without any big unexpected costs, but the cars are very strong mechanically.I'll add another recommendation for hillclimbing. I was somewhat older than 18 when I started but really love it, great atmosphere and not too expensive if you just want to have fun and drive fast in a relatively safe environment rather than winning classes and championships. Any car is OK but picking carefully means that you can reasonably on the pace in a class, other than safety clothing the costs are entry for the day which is rarely as much as a full track day and car maintenance which you will need to do whatever option is taken.
And there are driving schools at a few hills, the Harewood one is great but not experienced the others.
And there are driving schools at a few hills, the Harewood one is great but not experienced the others.
No idea of your budget but I tagged along on a Bookatrack day with a rented 7 and the instruction included was superb, perfectly pitched to the different drivers skill levels and very impressive. I believe you can get instruction in your own cars on their events too. Certainly compared to other tracks days I would lean towards bookatrack again as it was Very relaxed and loads of track time (fully open pit lane with limited car numbers)
If nothing else it will give you an idea if you have what it takes to justify spending more.
If nothing else it will give you an idea if you have what it takes to justify spending more.
Autograss.
I own a well set up and regularly tracked Caterham. I've driven many types of kart, including Rotax Senior Max. The most fun I have ever had, and continue to have, on four wheels is in the Autograss Class 10 car I bought off ebay for £1800 three years ago, racing at St Neots Autograss club.
£70 buys you a race license for a year. Then you just turn up on a race day, pay a grand total of around £20, for which you receive a few laps of practise in the morning, then two heats of around 6 laps each, then a final of around 6-8 laps, then an 'open' event of about 10 laps before close in the late afternoon.
It's basically drifting around large dirt ovals, in cars with, in Class 10 spec, damn near limitless engine regs. The only thing you cannot do is combine a bike engine with 'power adders', ie forced induction or any kind of nitrous/meth/water injection. ANYTHING else goes, with no cap on power.
Here is the first video which popped up on Youtube when I just searched for 'autograss class 10'. Almost all the competitive cars in Class 10 are now running twin GSX-R or Hayabusa bike engines, typically giving a total of 380-400hp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLNhf6hEHM
I own a well set up and regularly tracked Caterham. I've driven many types of kart, including Rotax Senior Max. The most fun I have ever had, and continue to have, on four wheels is in the Autograss Class 10 car I bought off ebay for £1800 three years ago, racing at St Neots Autograss club.
£70 buys you a race license for a year. Then you just turn up on a race day, pay a grand total of around £20, for which you receive a few laps of practise in the morning, then two heats of around 6 laps each, then a final of around 6-8 laps, then an 'open' event of about 10 laps before close in the late afternoon.
It's basically drifting around large dirt ovals, in cars with, in Class 10 spec, damn near limitless engine regs. The only thing you cannot do is combine a bike engine with 'power adders', ie forced induction or any kind of nitrous/meth/water injection. ANYTHING else goes, with no cap on power.
Here is the first video which popped up on Youtube when I just searched for 'autograss class 10'. Almost all the competitive cars in Class 10 are now running twin GSX-R or Hayabusa bike engines, typically giving a total of 380-400hp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLNhf6hEHM
Seb27 said:
It is very varied between competitors, there are some who will spend a lot, some who will spend less. Some will pay a team to run the car, some will do it by themselves. Some will test before every event and more, some won't. Once you have the car & safety gear, it has cost me around £5k for a season, including entry fees, fuel, getting there, some testing , consumables etc. This is without any big unexpected costs, but the cars are very strong mechanically.
Many thanks. Which Mk MX5 do you use? I don't know how this compares to your budget but I always though this looked like a good series to try: http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/ It's designed for you to share the car and costs between two people so your son and you could do it together. Races cost about £400 and the cars are cheap and varied. MSV also run a graduate series http://www.team-trophy.co.uk/ with slightly longer races.
The 750 Motor Club run a few low cost series as well.
The 750 Motor Club run a few low cost series as well.
Stevemcmaster said:
My thoughts:
Get some experience with the Bookatrack guys with some tuition. See if that whets the appetite for track competition (as opposed to trackdays or hillclimb/sprint competition).
If it does, and a Caterham is your passion, I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.graduates.org.uk/
Fantastic racing, a comparatively cheap entry point for the level of performance and great circuits on the calendar.
There are teams to look after you if you need support and there are usually cars available for hire.
Cheers
Steve
^^^ thisGet some experience with the Bookatrack guys with some tuition. See if that whets the appetite for track competition (as opposed to trackdays or hillclimb/sprint competition).
If it does, and a Caterham is your passion, I can wholeheartedly recommend http://www.graduates.org.uk/
Fantastic racing, a comparatively cheap entry point for the level of performance and great circuits on the calendar.
There are teams to look after you if you need support and there are usually cars available for hire.
Cheers
Steve
I've raced with the grads on and off for about 10 years.
In 2012 i spent less than £6k and won the classics championship.
Javelin Trackdays run a sprint series over 6 or so tracks during a year, with different classes ranging from standard road cars, through to track specials.
Its competitive but without the cost of fireproof overalls, car prep etc. Why not enter him in that this coming season, as you can dip in and out as you see fit, get the experience by attending trackdays with instructors to learn the circuits before hand, and then see if it lights the desire to go onto bigger/more expensive things. It doesn't require a racing licence either.
I do agree that 2 stroke karting (rotax etc) is biblically different to arrive and drive hire carts, and for £1500 you can buy a full set up. Its competitive and fast, without the cost of car racing.
I trackday regularly but still miss the year when I babysat a mates 2-stroke tony kart. It was epic.
Another consideration is historics as a first place to start - something like the HSCC 70's roadsports. All MOT'd 70's cars, road legal, which keeps costs down and makes it easier to work on the cars, which ever you choose. The chaps are also less keen to trade paint on their machines, so racing is fierce but you don't need to own a bodyshop, unlike a series like the stock hatch championship. You'll still need a car, £300 a race weekend entry, plus additional costs, so it makes an arrive and drive look appealing - perhaps Roddison's would rent him an arrive and drive seat in an MX5 for a few races, if he gets his MSA licence?
Its competitive but without the cost of fireproof overalls, car prep etc. Why not enter him in that this coming season, as you can dip in and out as you see fit, get the experience by attending trackdays with instructors to learn the circuits before hand, and then see if it lights the desire to go onto bigger/more expensive things. It doesn't require a racing licence either.
I do agree that 2 stroke karting (rotax etc) is biblically different to arrive and drive hire carts, and for £1500 you can buy a full set up. Its competitive and fast, without the cost of car racing.
I trackday regularly but still miss the year when I babysat a mates 2-stroke tony kart. It was epic.
Another consideration is historics as a first place to start - something like the HSCC 70's roadsports. All MOT'd 70's cars, road legal, which keeps costs down and makes it easier to work on the cars, which ever you choose. The chaps are also less keen to trade paint on their machines, so racing is fierce but you don't need to own a bodyshop, unlike a series like the stock hatch championship. You'll still need a car, £300 a race weekend entry, plus additional costs, so it makes an arrive and drive look appealing - perhaps Roddison's would rent him an arrive and drive seat in an MX5 for a few races, if he gets his MSA licence?
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