Shot down over Turkish airspace

Shot down over Turkish airspace

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Discussion

Trevatanus

Original Poster:

11,109 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Turkish F16's have shot down an aircraft violating their airspace. Rumour mill says it was an SU24

http://news.sky.com/story/1593241/turkey-shoots-do...

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
It was bound to happen. Will it be treated as an unfortunate "friendly fire" incident or will Russia want to make a big deal out of it?

Trevatanus

Original Poster:

11,109 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It was bound to happen. Will it be treated as an unfortunate "friendly fire" incident or will Russia want to make a big deal out of it?
Turkey are claiming several warnings were given, but I guess they would do.

ShaunTheSheep

951 posts

154 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
The plan view as it goes down matches the su-24 perfectly.

Wiki says Iran also operates them.

Edit: ah sky have confirmed with the Russians. I read the BBC version first and they weren't sure who's it was.

Edited by ShaunTheSheep on Tuesday 24th November 09:04

Charlie1986

2,016 posts

134 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Could be interesting or They will agree its a friendly fire incident.

Russia is saying they did not violate the airspace and turkey are saying they did.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Charlie1986 said:
Russia is saying they did not violate the airspace and turkey are saying they did.
Seems at least one of the pilots came down in Syria.

eharding

13,594 posts

283 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Charlie1986 said:
Russia is saying they did not violate the airspace and turkey are saying they did.
Seems at least one of the pilots came down in Syria.
Ironically, they would be safer if they came down on the territory of the folk who shot them down in the first place....

Trevatanus

Original Poster:

11,109 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
I know that all civilian pilots must speak English, but is there a similar rule for military? Could it be the Russian pilot could not understand he was being told to leave Turkish airspace?

Trevatanus

Original Poster:

11,109 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
frown


Rogue86

2,008 posts

144 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Saw some (as yet unverified) footage earlier which was pretty horrendous, allegedly one of the pilots. Looked more like he had been executed rather than shot on his way down to Earth.

dukeboy749r

2,536 posts

209 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
The potential for escalation is huge.

The fact that, as was posted earlier, despite being shot down by the Turkish, the pilots would have been safer there is ironic, but seemingly true.

And, given that the Russians were most likely to have been bombing anti-Assad forces, then being executed as the parachuted from the planes, Very sadly), doesn't surprise me.

Sigh

And in the 21st Century, we carry on, albeit with more effective and 'modern' weapons, where we as a species left off, last year, last century, last escalating conflict.

aeropilot

34,292 posts

226 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
The thread title is a little misleading from the tracking evidence posted, as while it appears the Su crossed the small finger of Turkish airspace several times, when it was hit, it was actually in Syrian airspace, not Turkish airspace.....although the Turks 'claim' Turkish airspace is 5km beyond the actual Turkey/Syrian border.....which Russia probably claim (as would any other country) as being nonsense.

There are reports also that a Russian CSAR helo landed in the area and was hit/destroyed up by a rebel fired TOW......

Rogue86

2,008 posts

144 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Yeah as above, that video has made it online also. Difficult to see if anyone was nearby at the time (helo was powered down at time of impact).

Eric Mc

121,770 posts

264 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
Trevatanus said:
I know that all civilian pilots must speak English, but is there a similar rule for military? Could it be the Russian pilot could not understand he was being told to leave Turkish airspace?
Many Russian pilots (even civilian ones) have little or no English.

Even if the Turkish aircraft did warn the Russians were they -

speaking English, Turkish or Russian?
did the Russian pilots understand what was being said?
what radio frequency were the Turkish pilots using?
would the radios on the Russian aircraft have been tuned to that frequency?
did the Turkish try to establish communication outside of radio - such as by wing waggling etc?
were the Russian and Turkish aircraft in visual range of each other?

MartG

20,619 posts

203 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
quotequote all
If the Turks are claiming that their airspace extends 15km beyond their border, what is to stop Syria claiming the same, in which case the Su-24 would have been in Syrian airspace the whole time.....

aeropilot

34,292 posts

226 months

Tuesday 24th November 2015
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Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
All very silly at a time when both sides had a common enemy. Turkey should have let this one go in the interests of the bigger picture, not start a NATO vs Russia punch-up. What would annoy me more, if I was Putin, is the likely fate of the crew.

aeropilot

34,292 posts

226 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
All very silly at a time when both sides had a common enemy. Turkey should have let this one go in the interests of the bigger picture, not start a NATO vs Russia punch-up. What would annoy me more, if I was Putin, is the likely fate of the crew.
Russia reporting the pilot is alive and has been recovered to their base in a CSAR op.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-349174...




ShaunTheSheep

951 posts

154 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
Turkey says the total incursion time was 17 seconds.

aeropilot

34,292 posts

226 months

Wednesday 25th November 2015
quotequote all
ShaunTheSheep said:
Turkey says the total incursion time was 17 seconds.
It would also seem likely now that the 'shot' was BVR as well, which is possibly a bit naughty, given it was blindly obvious the Su wasn't heading north onto Turkey in an overtly hostile manor.

But, then we have to assume that the Turks intention was protection of the Syrian 'Turkmen' on the ground over the border, not defence of Turkish airspace......which again is a bit naughty from a NATO member, but they were always likely to be the 'loose cannon' of the NATO members.
Be interesting to be a fly on the wall at NATO HQ at the moment!