Are Range Rovers in fact rubbish?
Discussion
Slightly off topic but the American chap in that YT video paid $3900 (approx £2500) for a 6 year 125,000 mile warranty which seems to cover a lot. What would such a cover cost over here for a 3 year old RR?
I don't have any personal experience of RRs but if they were so unreliable then surely the third party warranty folks would just stop offering cover for them - or charge an arm and a leg for it.
I don't have any personal experience of RRs but if they were so unreliable then surely the third party warranty folks would just stop offering cover for them - or charge an arm and a leg for it.
I don't think there's much debate around classic RRs being anything other than a 'labour of love', albeit a rather chic, appealing one.
When I see a P38 on the road I can't help but think the driver will likely fall into one of the following categories;
-An old money toff who pays whatever service/ maintenance/ repair bills come along because they can afford it. Won't replace until terminal, and why would they- perfect for chucking the hounds in the back. One or two owners from new max.
-A competent home mechanic who actually enjoys getting their hands dirty and recognises lots of luxury/ waft for small initial outlay. Likely active on OCs/ forums, 'enthusiast' who gets off on keeping them on the road. Number of owners/ history largely irrelevant- bought on condition after thorough inspection.
-People who buy a 2.5 diesel/ LPG V8 for sub £3K hoping they might get lucky (common wisdom says 2001> P38s for example don't immediately bork due to Bosch electrical components IIRC). These buyers likely don't have the knowledge/ inclination to be a home mechanic, and proceed to punt it at a loss when something inevitably borks, further enhancing the '5+ owners' status. Car at risk of ending up on coil springs when air starts to fail, destroying the main USP of the thing. These guys are the most likely group to weigh them in when a bill comes along, after stripping off the EBay 'Underpigeon' styling ofcourse...
I suspect L322s aren't as different as I'd like to think, although I'll admit to being tempted by ~2003/4 diesels which are now plentiful at well under £10K. I'm sure bork factor pales in comparison to P38s, but even with my propensity for mechanical sympathy/ preventative maintenance I still wouldn't sleep well. Dreams of knackered gearboxes don't appeal much.
To my shame I fit into the third category mentioned above (minus the Underpigeon bit), in that I can't easily afford to pay dealers/ specialists or work on these cars myself. Despite the many positive testimonies from owners, I'd still feel that an L322 was a bit of a risk, particularly for the age/ pricepoint I'd be looking at.
Bet new ones are quite good though; Harry Metcalfe raves about them, and he doesn't have a dog in the 'Range Rovers are rubbish' fight does he?
When I see a P38 on the road I can't help but think the driver will likely fall into one of the following categories;
-An old money toff who pays whatever service/ maintenance/ repair bills come along because they can afford it. Won't replace until terminal, and why would they- perfect for chucking the hounds in the back. One or two owners from new max.
-A competent home mechanic who actually enjoys getting their hands dirty and recognises lots of luxury/ waft for small initial outlay. Likely active on OCs/ forums, 'enthusiast' who gets off on keeping them on the road. Number of owners/ history largely irrelevant- bought on condition after thorough inspection.
-People who buy a 2.5 diesel/ LPG V8 for sub £3K hoping they might get lucky (common wisdom says 2001> P38s for example don't immediately bork due to Bosch electrical components IIRC). These buyers likely don't have the knowledge/ inclination to be a home mechanic, and proceed to punt it at a loss when something inevitably borks, further enhancing the '5+ owners' status. Car at risk of ending up on coil springs when air starts to fail, destroying the main USP of the thing. These guys are the most likely group to weigh them in when a bill comes along, after stripping off the EBay 'Underpigeon' styling ofcourse...
I suspect L322s aren't as different as I'd like to think, although I'll admit to being tempted by ~2003/4 diesels which are now plentiful at well under £10K. I'm sure bork factor pales in comparison to P38s, but even with my propensity for mechanical sympathy/ preventative maintenance I still wouldn't sleep well. Dreams of knackered gearboxes don't appeal much.
To my shame I fit into the third category mentioned above (minus the Underpigeon bit), in that I can't easily afford to pay dealers/ specialists or work on these cars myself. Despite the many positive testimonies from owners, I'd still feel that an L322 was a bit of a risk, particularly for the age/ pricepoint I'd be looking at.
Bet new ones are quite good though; Harry Metcalfe raves about them, and he doesn't have a dog in the 'Range Rovers are rubbish' fight does he?
MIDangerfield said:
I saw this video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzQCj-dbgN0
God I hate that guy .. he's infested the internet with s**t videos about owning a "KneeSun GeeTeeArr" in the US. And wonderful ownership stories of no-one actually giving a crap.Mate had a mid 90s HSE V8 for a while, apparently it spent more time at the garage than on the road.
I was also told that when you're fording rivers, it doesn't take much water inside at all before it hits the computer under the drivers seat with amusing results - lights flashing, horn going, air suspension jacking up and down, windows going up and down, doors locking and unlocking, radio turning on at full noise, etc...
He's much happier with his Nissan Safari - not as luxurious but much nicer to drive, better off road and far more reliable.
I was also told that when you're fording rivers, it doesn't take much water inside at all before it hits the computer under the drivers seat with amusing results - lights flashing, horn going, air suspension jacking up and down, windows going up and down, doors locking and unlocking, radio turning on at full noise, etc...
He's much happier with his Nissan Safari - not as luxurious but much nicer to drive, better off road and far more reliable.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 25th November 05:56
I live in the middle east and, unlike most large 4x4 buyers in the UK, people here often go into the desert with their cars and thrash them about.
I've only ever seen a couple of JLR product in the desert...some defenders plus a friend of mine had a Discovery 3 V8. It was good off road too, except it's air suspension kept automatically lowering the car when making progress on the sand (they do off-roading a bit different to the slow/steady approach that's taught in Europe).
It does say something that almost everyone who lives here chooses a Japanese 4x4 for dune bashing...or sometimes an American one. But hardly ever a LR. But as well as perceived reliability (probably deserved from the 70s/80s but not so true of the newer cars) , I think it's also simpler reason; a RR is a thing of beauty which you wouldn't want to rag around in the sand and damage. Where as your Landcruiser/Patrol is, as per most Japanese things, merely a white good which is made for a purpose. If it gets damaged...who cares. The Landcruisers in particular are just so out of date with dreadful 80s interiors and bland styling, if anything a bit of damage makes them more interesting! But the locals buy them in their thousands. Every other car is a white Landcruiser or Prado here.
I've only ever seen a couple of JLR product in the desert...some defenders plus a friend of mine had a Discovery 3 V8. It was good off road too, except it's air suspension kept automatically lowering the car when making progress on the sand (they do off-roading a bit different to the slow/steady approach that's taught in Europe).
It does say something that almost everyone who lives here chooses a Japanese 4x4 for dune bashing...or sometimes an American one. But hardly ever a LR. But as well as perceived reliability (probably deserved from the 70s/80s but not so true of the newer cars) , I think it's also simpler reason; a RR is a thing of beauty which you wouldn't want to rag around in the sand and damage. Where as your Landcruiser/Patrol is, as per most Japanese things, merely a white good which is made for a purpose. If it gets damaged...who cares. The Landcruisers in particular are just so out of date with dreadful 80s interiors and bland styling, if anything a bit of damage makes them more interesting! But the locals buy them in their thousands. Every other car is a white Landcruiser or Prado here.
Bibbs said:
God I hate that guy .. he's infested the internet with s**t videos about owning a "KneeSun GeeTeeArr" in the US. And wonderful ownership stories of no-one actually giving a crap.
The mad thing is theres thousands upon thousands of 'vloggers' on YT doing this - lots of annoying videos that are OTT perky, laced with a sarcastic sheen that everything has these days all the while spouting nonsense about subjects noone gives a hoot about.Dashcammers are the same, but without the perkiness/ sarcasm. Dashcammers are very serious and see the world in black and white/ 1's and 0's....
Jimmy Recard said:
Morningside said:
I find it strange that you don't seem to see any mid '90s Range Rovers on the road.
I find that strange because I see quite a lot of them around. Mostly 4.6s, oddly (the engine with the worst reputation)Really comparing Range Rovers to Landcruisers and Patrols is unfair, they are totally different vehicles built for totally different purposes. The Range Rover is a luxury car with a modicum of off-road ability, it's clearly a much better drive on the road than the Japanese 4x4s but you wouldn't take one on an expedition or use it constantly off-road as they're not designed for that sort of usage. A Landcruiser may be less refined and handle worse on road but they are designed for constant off-road usage and will get you where you need to go. Independent air suspension and big alloys are all very lovely for wafting down the road and traversing the occasional muddy field but simply will not manage decades and hundreds of thousands of off road miles without needing regular and expensive attention.
I went on an expedition for a month round Iceland this August, for the trip I bought a 23yr old Landcruiser HDJ80 with 233k on the clock and it was brilliant. Would I have taken a 23yr old 233k Range Rover (if any even exist)? Not on your nelly! I'd not have taken a brand new one frankly. In fact the whole time I was there I don't remember seeing a single Range Rover, there were various tourist Defenders and a smattering of tourist Discoverys but all the locals drive Japanese or American, the Landcruiser 80 and Patrol Y61 being king.
I went on an expedition for a month round Iceland this August, for the trip I bought a 23yr old Landcruiser HDJ80 with 233k on the clock and it was brilliant. Would I have taken a 23yr old 233k Range Rover (if any even exist)? Not on your nelly! I'd not have taken a brand new one frankly. In fact the whole time I was there I don't remember seeing a single Range Rover, there were various tourist Defenders and a smattering of tourist Discoverys but all the locals drive Japanese or American, the Landcruiser 80 and Patrol Y61 being king.
Annoying guy.
The bad ones are bad, the good ones not so bad.
Also he's paid the nose at the dealer. If he'd gone to one of the plentiful LR specialists he'd have paid a lot less on repairs.
And playing with the steering wheel motors is just dangerous. They are known to be a bit emotional - especially at the end of their limits, and it's rumoured that owners who lever themselves in and out break them more often.
The bad ones are bad, the good ones not so bad.
Also he's paid the nose at the dealer. If he'd gone to one of the plentiful LR specialists he'd have paid a lot less on repairs.
And playing with the steering wheel motors is just dangerous. They are known to be a bit emotional - especially at the end of their limits, and it's rumoured that owners who lever themselves in and out break them more often.
lostkiwi said:
Jimmy Recard said:
ambuletz said:
i never undestood why people loved the ranger rover when it was known for being incredibly unreliable. I also still don't understand that despite being more popular then ever these days they are still unreliable... and also why (apart from porsche, BMW, audi) nobody else has managed to make a premium 4x4 that is reliable...
I bet you've had loads of experience. I wish I could say that my Range Rovers and Discoverys are less reliable than Porsches, BMWs and Audis but they're not so you'll have to be disappointed 
A pal of mine got a new (end of the run before the new shape) one in 2013 I think it was.
I told him the problems we had with ours and it had spent 2-3 weeks off the road per year plus cost ££££!
He ignored me and his new RR arrived... and promptly broke down. Spent about a month off the road.
He got it back and again it broke down within a day. Crazy. He got a full refund and a load of hassle.
I would *love* another FFRR but I just cant justify having it off the road that often.
Even with LR warranty. And then what happens at the end of the warranty? Sell it for 50p?
I told him the problems we had with ours and it had spent 2-3 weeks off the road per year plus cost ££££!
He ignored me and his new RR arrived... and promptly broke down. Spent about a month off the road.
He got it back and again it broke down within a day. Crazy. He got a full refund and a load of hassle.
I would *love* another FFRR but I just cant justify having it off the road that often.
Even with LR warranty. And then what happens at the end of the warranty? Sell it for 50p?
kooky guy said:
Curious as to what you're basing this opinion on. The 4.6 used cherry picked blocks so it's more likely that the 4.0s would fail.
I'm not of the opinion that the 4.6 is particularly bad but anecdotally my experience is that many people seem to think it is. And there are stories of porous blocks, warped heads and worn camshafts.I own a 2007 L322 4.4 Vogue SE and it's been fantastic; it's never let us down. The only fault I've found is condensation in the rear lights but they all do that apparently, and it can be fixed by drilling a 3mm hole in the base of the casing.
Caveat: I only bought it yesterday. This time next week I may feel differently.
Caveat: I only bought it yesterday. This time next week I may feel differently.
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