E90 330i Auto v Manual
Discussion
Sorry, another 330i thread....I've been looking at all manner of cars recently, especially Beemers and note there are tons of autos for sale but few manuals.
I have always preferred a manual and I know the automatic used to rob the older 328i of about 2-3 seconds acceleration from 0-100 according to period road tests....
However for the next 7 months my commute involves the A338 Bournemouth Spur Road works, which maybe familiar to any south coast resident BMW driver and frankly an auto does appeal more than before!!!
Just wondered how much slower the E90 auto 330i feels in everyday driving compared with a manual? This is relevant as there is a 330i touring SE auto for sale at a garage near me and I was wondering about going for a look. I guess this is the last generation of 3 series before the new 8 speed autos came along in the likes of the M135i which are just as fast as manuals.
I have always preferred a manual and I know the automatic used to rob the older 328i of about 2-3 seconds acceleration from 0-100 according to period road tests....
However for the next 7 months my commute involves the A338 Bournemouth Spur Road works, which maybe familiar to any south coast resident BMW driver and frankly an auto does appeal more than before!!!
Just wondered how much slower the E90 auto 330i feels in everyday driving compared with a manual? This is relevant as there is a 330i touring SE auto for sale at a garage near me and I was wondering about going for a look. I guess this is the last generation of 3 series before the new 8 speed autos came along in the likes of the M135i which are just as fast as manuals.
Edited by GreenArrow on Tuesday 24th November 18:29
The E90 330i manual is 6.3secs to 60 and the auto is 6.6secs to 60, I really wanted a manual but couldn't be bothered to wait for the right manual to come up so settled on the auto.
I am sure the manual is more engaging and suits the engines sweet revving nature more but the auto does kick down nicely in sport and chases the redline well and as a daily driver when stuck in traffic the auto is nice and easy for sure.
The auto does give the 330i a very relaxed feel and that is a positive or negative depending on your point of view.
I am sure the manual is more engaging and suits the engines sweet revving nature more but the auto does kick down nicely in sport and chases the redline well and as a daily driver when stuck in traffic the auto is nice and easy for sure.
The auto does give the 330i a very relaxed feel and that is a positive or negative depending on your point of view.
I have just bought a manual E61 530i as a winter hack which is hardly heavier than an E90/1. It isn't a quick car by any stretch but the revvy six pot suits the manual. If I wanted an auto I''d have got a 530d. Definitely manual if you want a 330i. For what it's worth why not consider a 330d (in manual or auto). I had one (manual) and have to say it feels much quicker than the petrol equivalent due to the torque.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
For what it's worth why not consider a 330d (in manual or auto). I had one (manual) and have to say it feels much quicker than the petrol equivalent due to the torque.
Agree with this and had both 330i/d and the 330d does feel so much quicker than the 330i whereas in reality there isn't that much between them. I actually thought the 330d even sounded more gutsy than the 330i but the 330i does love the revs and you do get the reward from pushing it to its redline but the 330d has the power on tap straight away.
Just sold mine. Just buying another automatic BMW on the strength of it.
Loved it. Wouldn't have given a manual a second thought. The gearbox was one of the car's best features.
If I'm being hyper critical, when deciding to press on from pootling around, it took a while to work out it was playtime.
Loved it. Wouldn't have given a manual a second thought. The gearbox was one of the car's best features.
If I'm being hyper critical, when deciding to press on from pootling around, it took a while to work out it was playtime.
In sport or manual modes everything is locked up so behaves like a manual with none of the stereotypical slush of old school autos.. It won't lose out to a manual in gear but has the added bonus of being able to change gear quickly every time, I'd suggest that to me and you the auto will be quicker 0-60 too, you've got to be pretty brutal to a manual to get quoted figures, probably not how you'd treat your own.
Put into drive and it goes a bit slushy and less willing to respond but does make for a really relaxing cruiser.
Tbh, I used to like a manual box, and I still appreciate them in a rare car etc, but to own I'd have auto every time, I sometimes drive my wives Clio and changing gear etc is nothing more than a pain in the arse.
Put into drive and it goes a bit slushy and less willing to respond but does make for a really relaxing cruiser.
Tbh, I used to like a manual box, and I still appreciate them in a rare car etc, but to own I'd have auto every time, I sometimes drive my wives Clio and changing gear etc is nothing more than a pain in the arse.
Having had various e90s and e60s over the years - petrol and diesel, manual and auto - I'd definitely go for the diesel as it feels faster, is much more responsive and is a lot more economical. My manual diesel 330d averaged about 36 mpg and my petrol equivalent averages 26mpg. The slug of torque from the diesel is a delight compared with the revvy but gutless petrol. I can't see the point of an auto gutless petrol - if you really do want the petrol get the manual.
The 3.0 petrol engine really is a bit anodyne compared with older BMW straight six petrol engines. But of course try both!
The 3.0 petrol engine really is a bit anodyne compared with older BMW straight six petrol engines. But of course try both!
I agree with the above comments to a certain point, the diesels are easy to get going as the performance is so accessible.
I owned a 335d for a year, it was quick on the road and gave only reasonable mpg (averaged 32) but that's about where the good bits ended.. I replaced it (via some car shuffling) with an auto 330i and it was the nicer car, even though it wasn't quite as quick.
OP you really need to drive all combinations and they're all very different, what works for one guy may not work for the next.
I owned a 335d for a year, it was quick on the road and gave only reasonable mpg (averaged 32) but that's about where the good bits ended.. I replaced it (via some car shuffling) with an auto 330i and it was the nicer car, even though it wasn't quite as quick.
OP you really need to drive all combinations and they're all very different, what works for one guy may not work for the next.
Balls to a diesel. You have the opportunity to get yourself the last great n/a straight sixes that BMW have produced. MPG is not going to be hugely worse - maybe 10mpg I'd guess. It's worth sacrificing that for an engine that's refined and will pull from 2k rpm right through to 7k.
Auto's fine - I do find with my older step auto that the quickest change is if you leave it in sport mode but don't use the manual mode. Manual mode is a bit laggy on the changes. But then knowing that it's better in manual mode if you're on a twisty and hilly road, as you can anticipate the lag - sport mode just hangs on to gears a little too long in those conditions.
Auto's fine - I do find with my older step auto that the quickest change is if you leave it in sport mode but don't use the manual mode. Manual mode is a bit laggy on the changes. But then knowing that it's better in manual mode if you're on a twisty and hilly road, as you can anticipate the lag - sport mode just hangs on to gears a little too long in those conditions.
Swervin_Mervin said:
Balls to a diesel. You have the opportunity to get yourself the last great n/a straight sixes that BMW have produced. MPG is not going to be hugely worse - maybe 10mpg I'd guess. It's worth sacrificing that for an engine that's refined and will pull from 2k rpm right through to 7k.
Auto's fine - I do find with my older step auto that the quickest change is if you leave it in sport mode but don't use the manual mode. Manual mode is a bit laggy on the changes. But then knowing that it's better in manual mode if you're on a twisty and hilly road, as you can anticipate the lag - sport mode just hangs on to gears a little too long in those conditions.
This is a very good sum up and I also agree regards the way the auto behaves and this is good advice, I have had far more exciting engines in the past than the N52 but I am still really pleased with mine and as mentioned its one of the last of the breed.Auto's fine - I do find with my older step auto that the quickest change is if you leave it in sport mode but don't use the manual mode. Manual mode is a bit laggy on the changes. But then knowing that it's better in manual mode if you're on a twisty and hilly road, as you can anticipate the lag - sport mode just hangs on to gears a little too long in those conditions.
You can only buy turbo diesels and turbo petrol engines from BMW now...so grab a nice smooth N/A straight six while you still can...
The auto is ok, but this engine loves revs and tbh does loose out in the torque stakes to the diesels and turbo petrols around. It's a bit dim witted / old fashioned compared to the new 8 speed ZF box or a dual clutch.
I had a manual for a few years, it was great fun. A lovely mechanical shift, long gearing, but easy to keep on the boil and sounds wonderful. Max power is at 6.8k or there abouts, pretty high.
I tried a 335i Auto E92 which was fine to cruise around in, but I found it quite frustrating to punt along. The newer ZF 8 Speed box, is just a pleasure in comparison.
I had a manual for a few years, it was great fun. A lovely mechanical shift, long gearing, but easy to keep on the boil and sounds wonderful. Max power is at 6.8k or there abouts, pretty high.
I tried a 335i Auto E92 which was fine to cruise around in, but I found it quite frustrating to punt along. The newer ZF 8 Speed box, is just a pleasure in comparison.
abarber said:
The auto is ok, but this engine loves revs and tbh does loose out in the torque stakes to the diesels and turbo petrols around. It's a bit dim witted / old fashioned compared to the new 8 speed ZF box or a dual clutch.
I had a manual for a few years, it was great fun. A lovely mechanical shift, long gearing, but easy to keep on the boil and sounds wonderful. Max power is at 6.8k or there abouts, pretty high.
I tried a 335i Auto E92 which was fine to cruise around in, but I found it quite frustrating to punt along. The newer ZF 8 Speed box, is just a pleasure in comparison.
Yes I think max power is 6600rpm so if you are used to a performance diesel or petrol turbo you will think that the N52 engine is pants(my mrs thinks the 330i is woeful in performance terms) as it needs plenty of revs and hasn't got much torque either.I had a manual for a few years, it was great fun. A lovely mechanical shift, long gearing, but easy to keep on the boil and sounds wonderful. Max power is at 6.8k or there abouts, pretty high.
I tried a 335i Auto E92 which was fine to cruise around in, but I found it quite frustrating to punt along. The newer ZF 8 Speed box, is just a pleasure in comparison.
I actually find dual clutches the most dim witted and find they are pretty frustrating as they don't do the slush thing very well and are a pain in the backside if moving slowly forwards or backwards.
I have experience of the ZF8 auto and while its a good auto I don't really get why literally everyone raves about it.
So in summary make sure the 330i has a three pedal manual gearbox because I have had the ZF6/ZF8 auto and a dual clutch auto and none of them come close to the traditional way of doing things.
I'll be able to give my views on the ZF8 soon I hope.
However, the ZF6 isn't that dimwitted. I think most people think it is because they're mentally thinking about the car changing gear before it does. It changes quick enough in Sport mode and if you allow for the change time in manual mode you can anticipate when you need to make changes. You won't make them that much faster in a manual. Even in Drive you quickly learn and adapt to how it behaves and can therefore anticipate and drive accordingly. I probably miss having a manual box on 1 in 100 drives.
As for torque, it might not feel like it has much shove to someone driving one after a filthy diesel, but it still has plenty.
Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Wednesday 25th November 14:18
Swervin_Mervin said:
I'll be able to give my views on the ZF8 soon I hope.
As for torque, it might not feel like it has much shove to someone driving one after a filthy diesel, but it still has plenty.
Yes I agree that in terms of torque its really ok but its just if you are used to a diesel you just have to adjust the expectation a little.
Swervin_Mervin said:
However, the ZF6 isn't that dimwitted. I think most people think it is because they're mentally thinking about the car changing gear before it does. It changes quick enough in Sport mode and if you allow for the change time in manual mode you can anticipate when you need to make changes. You won't make them that much faster in a manual. Even in Drive you quickly learn and adapt to how it behaves and can therefore anticipate and drive accordingly. I probably miss having a manual box on 1 in 100 drives.
At first I actually thought the ZF6 was a totally woeful gearbox but I agree that with experience of it you learn how to get the best from it for sure and as you mention it will be quicker than a manual as it does shift quickly in sport and will kick right down to almost max revs on occasion. Fingers crossed we'll have a F20 125i.
It's worth mentioning the kickdown actually. I find there are two stages. It'll kick down one gear if you give it a decent press, but it also appears to have a button at the bottom of the pedal travel which kicks it down as low as it will reasonably go, so generally 2 gears.
I wasn't sure I was going to like it when I first got it, having come from a Clio 197 with a lovely snappy 6spd manual (when it wasn't borked). But I soon learned its foibles and, like with most keen drivers and their cars, the nuances become second nature after a while and you realise you've adapted. e.g. you instinctively know how much is required to kick it down just one gear to make a quick pass and allow it to smoothly change back up. And you learn how to make it kick down and hold on to the gear etc.
It's worth mentioning the kickdown actually. I find there are two stages. It'll kick down one gear if you give it a decent press, but it also appears to have a button at the bottom of the pedal travel which kicks it down as low as it will reasonably go, so generally 2 gears.
I wasn't sure I was going to like it when I first got it, having come from a Clio 197 with a lovely snappy 6spd manual (when it wasn't borked). But I soon learned its foibles and, like with most keen drivers and their cars, the nuances become second nature after a while and you realise you've adapted. e.g. you instinctively know how much is required to kick it down just one gear to make a quick pass and allow it to smoothly change back up. And you learn how to make it kick down and hold on to the gear etc.
I've got to admit I am veering more to a 330i than a 330d, because my budget will get me an 06-08 reg car, with 60-90K miles and things like DMF, DPF, Swirl Flaps, turbos etc worry me on the diesel model....doesn't bother me that it lacks torque, my current daily driver is a petrol 2 litre Mazda 6, which has no guts at all below 3500 RPM and hardly a ball of fire at top end either, so anything with a straight six will feel plenty quick enough. I also own an MX-5, which again needs working, so I am well used to hanging onto the gears.....
Its just seemingly hard to find a manual 330i these days! Even most of the e46 versions are autos. A far cry from the E36 days when it seemed more cars than not were manuals. Perhaps an indication that the 3 series softened in character over the years?
Thanks for all the feedback. Amazing how opinions vary!
Its just seemingly hard to find a manual 330i these days! Even most of the e46 versions are autos. A far cry from the E36 days when it seemed more cars than not were manuals. Perhaps an indication that the 3 series softened in character over the years?
Thanks for all the feedback. Amazing how opinions vary!
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