Anyone working in IT who can help me?
Discussion
I'm looking to re-train for a career in IT. I'm coming into it with no IT experience whatsoever and I have been recommended to complete a CompTIA A+ course and then an MCSA either in Server 2012 or SQL. The courses will cost over £1k though so i need to be 100% sure that it will be worth spending the money and taking the 6 months or so to complete.
Are these courses worth doing and more importantly what sort of jobs and salary can i expect on the other side.
Thanks,
Are these courses worth doing and more importantly what sort of jobs and salary can i expect on the other side.
Thanks,
Certifications are definitely worth while as they will help you rise above others with no certification.
That said they aren't worth what they used to be as there are still plenty out there with them and if you're competing with someone with experience it may not help.
If you don't do it you have no chance at all as no employer will be willing to take the risk.
In terms of salary its very dependent on experience, location, industry and the actual role.
For example consultancy gets around £60-£100k pa typically.
1st level support is £25-30k
Architects are £50-75k.
Server support pays less in general than DBAs.
Best way to see what a job will give in return is to look at Jobserve and see what the going rates are.
That said they aren't worth what they used to be as there are still plenty out there with them and if you're competing with someone with experience it may not help.
If you don't do it you have no chance at all as no employer will be willing to take the risk.
In terms of salary its very dependent on experience, location, industry and the actual role.
For example consultancy gets around £60-£100k pa typically.
1st level support is £25-30k
Architects are £50-75k.
Server support pays less in general than DBAs.
Best way to see what a job will give in return is to look at Jobserve and see what the going rates are.
I'm looking to re-train for a career in IT. I'm coming into it with no IT experience whatsoever and I have been recommended to complete a CompTIA A+ course and then an MCSA either in Server 2012 or SQL. The courses will cost over £1k though so i need to be 100% sure that it will be worth spending the money and taking the 6 months or so to complete.
Are these courses worth doing and more importantly what sort of jobs and salary can i expect on the other side.
Thanks,
Are these courses worth doing and more importantly what sort of jobs and salary can i expect on the other side.
Thanks,
lostkiwi said:
For example consultancy gets around £60-£100k pa typically.
1st level support is £25-30k
Errr these are unrealistic! 1st level support is £25-30k
Milton Keynes - 1st Line upto £20k £22k tops!
Consultancy is a wide field, salaries from £30 - 6Ok
In terms of exams etc. I am not sure the Comptia A+ stuff is that useful, it depends on what career path you are looking to take in the industry?
For example A+ was just desktop stuff when I took it (granted this was some 12 years ago) so if you want to be a DBA then it is of little to no use.
Frankly they will only get you into very basic jobs and I'd think very hard before doing this.
The firms providing the training are all very hard sell and make big promises.
I'd never employ someone on the back of a course, real world experience is way more important and there a loads of people out there with the courses.
You say you have no IT experience - so what experience do you have? Those salaries seem optimistic to me (but I'm inthe north so...). Round here I'm seeing adverts for experieced developers paying less than 20K.
The firms providing the training are all very hard sell and make big promises.
I'd never employ someone on the back of a course, real world experience is way more important and there a loads of people out there with the courses.
You say you have no IT experience - so what experience do you have? Those salaries seem optimistic to me (but I'm inthe north so...). Round here I'm seeing adverts for experieced developers paying less than 20K.
Dannyboy85 said:
I'm looking to re-train for a career in IT. I'm coming into it with no IT experience whatsoever
First thing you need is experience, assuming you "are good at computers", try and get a 1st/2nd line support job. From their you will be able to tell if you want to pursue a career in IT and what areas you want to go in to.Jumping straight in to the SQL / DBA arena is a big ask and you wont find many, if any who will employ you in this role based on certifications alone. In fact, their are little to no "well paid" IT jobs out their that will take some one on with just certs.
You need experience.
Have you thought about going down the linux / sys admin route?
Thanks, I'll post this topic in the employment forum as well.
This is my big worry as I will have to invest alot of money into these courses and i need to be sure that it's worth doing and i'm also painfully aware that experience counts for alot more than skills and qualifications to lots of employers these days. I earn £27k in my current job but if i stayed there another 20 years I would still be earning the same money while IT seems to have alot more scope for improvement. Just cant afford to take too much of a drop after qualification!
This is my big worry as I will have to invest alot of money into these courses and i need to be sure that it's worth doing and i'm also painfully aware that experience counts for alot more than skills and qualifications to lots of employers these days. I earn £27k in my current job but if i stayed there another 20 years I would still be earning the same money while IT seems to have alot more scope for improvement. Just cant afford to take too much of a drop after qualification!
TooLateForAName said:
Frankly they will only get you into very basic jobs and I'd think very hard before doing this.
The firms providing the training are all very hard sell and make big promises.
I'd never employ someone on the back of a course, real world experience is way more important and there a loads of people out there with the courses.
You say you have no IT experience - so what experience do you have? Those salaries seem optimistic to me (but I'm inthe north so...). Round here I'm seeing adverts for experieced developers paying less than 20K.
Along similar lines, when you say 'No experience' does that mean no work experience but you have an interest? There are lots of free courses on all kind of aspects of IT from Coursera and the like that will at least allow you to see if you have an aptitude rather than wasting money.The firms providing the training are all very hard sell and make big promises.
I'd never employ someone on the back of a course, real world experience is way more important and there a loads of people out there with the courses.
You say you have no IT experience - so what experience do you have? Those salaries seem optimistic to me (but I'm inthe north so...). Round here I'm seeing adverts for experieced developers paying less than 20K.
Due to the nature of the a support role, you need to be able to work for different people and attitudes – both as part of the IT team and with your customers (the people that you are supporting) and this is actually more important that how quickly you can fix something. When I'm interviewing for an open position in IT Support, I look for experience and personality over any qualifications that someone may have.
Let me know if you want further information.
Let me know if you want further information.
About 16 years ago I was in a similar boat. Worked in a number of industries, retail, catering etc, but fancied a change. I decided to re-train and got a career development loan. Found what turned out to be a good course (for me) and studied, while working part time for my MCP, MCP+I and MCSE.
After working really hard, studying for about 9 months while working on and off I got my certifications. Getting the certification was a step in to getting a junior role and getting some experience. It really opened the door for me in what has become a career I really enjoy.
It didn't happen overnight and I had to accept it would be a journey of several years before I got to the kind of role I wanted. But that journey has taught me a lot. Its also been nice to have a career where I've had to keep testing my knowledge, updating my certifications and learning new stuff.
Firstly, don't expect to jump in to a career paying the big money, you'll need to spend a few years just getting familiar and building knowledge. Another few years getting confident and then the rest will fall in place. Like any field, the more experience, the more opportunities, the likelyhood of increased reward......and the associated responsibility / stress.
Investigate the course / training available. Look at the kind of roles that training will get you in terms of employment, not the big knowledge, key experience roles but the starting points. Then think about from the starting point (junior analyst, junior developer ettc)what the path might be to further opportunities.
My training costs 16 years ago were about £1600 all told, it was well worth the expense in terms of opportunity for me.
After working really hard, studying for about 9 months while working on and off I got my certifications. Getting the certification was a step in to getting a junior role and getting some experience. It really opened the door for me in what has become a career I really enjoy.
It didn't happen overnight and I had to accept it would be a journey of several years before I got to the kind of role I wanted. But that journey has taught me a lot. Its also been nice to have a career where I've had to keep testing my knowledge, updating my certifications and learning new stuff.
Firstly, don't expect to jump in to a career paying the big money, you'll need to spend a few years just getting familiar and building knowledge. Another few years getting confident and then the rest will fall in place. Like any field, the more experience, the more opportunities, the likelyhood of increased reward......and the associated responsibility / stress.
Investigate the course / training available. Look at the kind of roles that training will get you in terms of employment, not the big knowledge, key experience roles but the starting points. Then think about from the starting point (junior analyst, junior developer ettc)what the path might be to further opportunities.
My training costs 16 years ago were about £1600 all told, it was well worth the expense in terms of opportunity for me.
What's your background, OP?
I came into IT 20yrs ago at 23 but was fortunate enough to be taken on as a graduate trainee by a company looking for people without experience, so they could mould them in their own way of doing things. We had everything from complete newbies like me (could manage a bit of Word and Excel) to people with Computer Science MSC's, but all of us had no actual IT work experience. My degree was in Business Studies - enought to get my CV in the 'needs a degree to apply' pile, but largely irrelevant.
I really struggled in the first few months, programming didn't come easy to me despite having a very logical mind. However I knuckled down, worked hard, networked with experienced people there, and got to know the ropes. I am indebted to a number of Contractors in that first job who had no obligation whatsoever to help me, but would spend half an hour here or there helping me out, because they could see I was young, enthusiastic and willing to learn. 20yrs on I am a senior contract programmer (have moved on elsewhere) but one of only two of my my intake of 16 that has remained technical - all the rest have diversified into Business Analyst/Project Manager type jobs.
It is unfortunately something of a viscious circle; you need a job to get the experience, but you most often need experience to get a job. If I were you I would be focussing on employers that are willing to take somebody on and promote from within. I had to take a crap salary for two years and was skint, but it was worth it.
I came into IT 20yrs ago at 23 but was fortunate enough to be taken on as a graduate trainee by a company looking for people without experience, so they could mould them in their own way of doing things. We had everything from complete newbies like me (could manage a bit of Word and Excel) to people with Computer Science MSC's, but all of us had no actual IT work experience. My degree was in Business Studies - enought to get my CV in the 'needs a degree to apply' pile, but largely irrelevant.
I really struggled in the first few months, programming didn't come easy to me despite having a very logical mind. However I knuckled down, worked hard, networked with experienced people there, and got to know the ropes. I am indebted to a number of Contractors in that first job who had no obligation whatsoever to help me, but would spend half an hour here or there helping me out, because they could see I was young, enthusiastic and willing to learn. 20yrs on I am a senior contract programmer (have moved on elsewhere) but one of only two of my my intake of 16 that has remained technical - all the rest have diversified into Business Analyst/Project Manager type jobs.
It is unfortunately something of a viscious circle; you need a job to get the experience, but you most often need experience to get a job. If I were you I would be focussing on employers that are willing to take somebody on and promote from within. I had to take a crap salary for two years and was skint, but it was worth it.
DanL said:
IT support is (in my opinion) the bottom rung of IT related stuff, and pays accordingly. Programming can pay quite well - if you have an aptitude for it, I'd go that route rather than onto a help desk.
The difficulty is the experience part. I work as a developer and I think the main path to becoming a good one is through experience, rather than qualifications. I'd happily take someone on with no development experience if I knew they were bright and could learn, something he/she could exhibit through a support job. I'd find this fairly difficult to judge through interviews.In the past I've had a few people with very limited development experience, but a proven record in support, work for me and while the initial six months was painful, they have all become decent developers. I'd really struggle to hire someone with no experience on the back of some qualifications as it is possible to learn the answers to interview questions without really understanding how to write decent code. There's nothing wrong with taking a support role, hopefully with a bit of scripting, and then moving into development, etc. later.
Something else you could consider is project management. There don't seem to be a great deal of these in my industry, but the ones I know of get paid relatively well. In this case, I believe qualifications like PRINCE2 can help.
"Working in IT" could describe any of a huge range of jobs and salaries. Speaking as a developer, the only "courses" that are relevant to our recruitment process for developers would be school/university education, and we'd be looking at those qualifications more as an indicator of potential aptitude rather than for specific skills. There aren't any well established and recognised "professional" software developer qualifications; nothing equivalent to what you get in the fields of law, accountancy or other other genuine professions where there is a professional body setting recognised standards. When considering candidates who claim some degree of experience, we'll get them to sit some tests so we can see how they tackle practical problems, and we'll interview them in depth about their work experience. People without any experience would be taken on through our graduate programme and be given a lot of in house training (a programme lasting a couple of years with a mixture of formal learning and learning on the job within different teams around the organisation.) The lack of recognised professional qualifications means it is difficult for inexperienced people to join us except through graduate recruitment. This is bad for people looking to switch careers and it is bad for us as employers.
lostkiwi said:
For example consultancy gets around £60-£100k pa typically.
Senior in London with a lot of experience depending on area of expertise and size of consultancy. Graduates about £30k.
OP - experience is king in IT unless you start at the bottom, in which case aptitude is key. If you're lucky enough to find a trainee scheme working in support/helpdesk that would give you an "in".
My current job is at an airport in an operations role. Mostly procedural task like marshalling aircraft, runway inspections. I have customer service experience from this and previous roles but other than that not Alot of transferable skills and experience. This one of the main reasons for looking at these courses. In terms of experience of computers at the moment it's only been desktop user stuff really. I could afford to take abit of pay cut but not much less than £23k really due to mortgage, etc.
Thank you everyone for your feedback I really don't know what I should go for at this point.
Thank you everyone for your feedback I really don't know what I should go for at this point.
do remember that IT is not just 95% microsoft these days, I have recently done a couple of courses in cloud based systems, google apps and meraki. about to do 365
i also use linux machines at work, more and more places I know are using Linux servers for file and print servers not just web.
lots of info is on youtube, loads of how to vids, and you can have a google apps domain up and running and working towards a migrators cert for less than £50.
run centos in a virtual machine and it is normally what the next version of red hat will look like.
i've used and supported ms networks and apps for (f
k) way too long. but now I'm using other things, and amazingly i'm the one having to convince people 10 - 20 years my junior that they need to learn the other stuff.
good luck.
i also use linux machines at work, more and more places I know are using Linux servers for file and print servers not just web.
lots of info is on youtube, loads of how to vids, and you can have a google apps domain up and running and working towards a migrators cert for less than £50.
run centos in a virtual machine and it is normally what the next version of red hat will look like.
i've used and supported ms networks and apps for (f
k) way too long. but now I'm using other things, and amazingly i'm the one having to convince people 10 - 20 years my junior that they need to learn the other stuff.good luck.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff