Forgive me: what car?

[LDN]

Driving back and forth to France / French Alps four or five times a year is taking its toll on my wallet; the MPG on my trusty old 07 W164 ML is not great despite a 7th top gear. I need a more modern (read - dare I say it - more economical) 4x4 to do the journey.

It has to be 4wd, luxurious so that the 12 hours behind the wheel doesn't phase me - and hopefully double my MPG / half my fuel costs - which over the next few years will probably amount to a few thousand quid... I get around the 20 mpg mark currently.

It'd be easy if I had an unlimited budget but really, 12 to 16k max...

I see the smaller 4x4s like the Q5 or X3 and the X3 I've sat in, especially, seemed tiny inside. Any tips...

[Slushbox]

You could sell your ML to 'smallzoo' in thread below. He/she wants a stylish 4x4.

The 'cheaper' to run 4x4's all seem to descend into Q*shq*i crossover territory. It's either that or a Subaru. The market is moving to 20% SUV ownership, but most of the 'affordable to run' crossover models are really not inspiring. Otherwise the Volvo XC's spring to mind, and are nice places to be in, as are the older Jeeps but neither are cheap to run.

The Porsche Cayenne is a hoot to drive, but there are complaints of rotating engine-things breaking. Strange Rover? (er, no.)

Then there's the Lexus RX, of which I know nothing and the Mazda CX5 which is better than expected, but not luxurious. The VW Tiguan, is a Golf in wellies, but very pleasing to drive with a good, practical interior in top spec. Toureg is also around, but I have not driven one.

Edited by Slushbox on Thursday 26th November 19:55

[LDN]

Thanks; yes a treg; same as ML; fuel will cost as will the Porsche. From what I can tell, if I want large luxurious 4x4 - only the really modern - read expensive - ones will fit

X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.

[Axionknight]

Volvo XC90 with the D5 engine? Spacious, comfortable and alright on jungle juice on a run.

[Deerfoot]

Axionknight said:

Volvo XC90 with the D5 engine?

Or an XC60 D5 should fit the bill.

[Slushbox]

LDN said:

Thanks; yes a treg; same as ML; fuel will cost as will the Porsche. From what I can tell, if I want large luxurious 4x4 - only the really modern - read expensive - ones will fit

X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.

Someone else will be along in a minute, but I went through this last year, looking for a 4x4. The X-trails and Qashqai seem to have varying reports of reliability, the CRV has varying reports of how the 4x4 systems work, or don't, and the Kia-Thing seems capable if uninspiring.

A lot of the newer crossovers now use 'on-demand' electro-clutches in the rear diff, so improve economy, and it might be useful to Google pics and see what the Alpine and German locals are driving.

It seems that test-drives are in order, but do include the Tiguan, plus a little over for winter-tyres.

There are a couple of left-field options, the new 2015 Suzuki Vitara and S-Cross are available in electro-clutch on-demand 4x4 versions, as is the noble but unexciting RAV4. All can be seen cavorting about in snowy You-Tube vids, with the requisite knobbly rubber.

Tiguan in snow:

https://youtu.be/9wqka0MHDZo

Edited by Slushbox on Thursday 26th November 20:21

[RammyMP]

I'm thinking the same myself, what 4x4. The wife's got an Evoque but it's just too small. The Q5 is a none starter due to the VW carry on and it's got no spare wheel. The new X-Trail was looking favourable but just under powered. I keep going back to a Discovery Sport but the lead in times seem long.

[LDN]

Slushbox said:

LDN said:

Thanks; yes a treg; same as ML; fuel will cost as will the Porsche. From what I can tell, if I want large luxurious 4x4 - only the really modern - read expensive - ones will fit

X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.

Someone else will be along in a minute, but I went through this last year, looking for a 4x4. The X-trails and Qashqai seem to have varying reports of reliability, the CRV has varying reports of how the 4x4 systems work, or don't, and the Kia-Thing seems capable if uninspiring.

A lot of the newer crossovers now use 'on-demand' electro-clutches in the rear diff, so improve economy, and it might be useful to Google pics and see what the Alpine and German locals are driving.

It seems that test-drives are in order, but do include the Tiguan, plus a little over for winter-tyres.

There are a couple of left-field options, the new 2015 Suzuki Vitara and S-Cross are available in electro-clutch on-demand 4x4 versions, as is the noble but unexciting RAV4. All can be seen cavorting about in snowy You-Tube vids, with the requisite knobbly rubber.

My last Alps winter trip... the car of choice seemed to be Dacia Dusters... and lots of them... both the 2wd and 4wd versions. But - won't work for me - 12 hours each way; I need luxury. The Volvo I will look at and will consider the Tiguan; is it really any good?? Suzuki may be worth a look.

[Deerfoot]

LDN said:

The Volvo I will look at and will consider the Tiguan; is it really any good?

We looked at the Tiguan but thought it too small (the boot appeared especially tight) and the ride was a bit choppy, although the one we tried was an R-line thingy with large wheels.

[LDN]

Yes they do look a bit pokey inside and have heard of the ride being as you describe, on the bigger wheels.

[PomBstard]

I can confirm from experience that Subaru seats are excellent for the long haul, much better than the seats in my V70 as far as I'm concerned, and have proper AWD rather than on-demand system. Not sure what you mean by luxury buy my Liberty had a great sound system, and high level of kit, and managed around 30-35mpg with a turbo petrol engine. Reliability also excellent. Might be worth checking what you can get for your budget.

New Forester is also bigger inside than it looks.

[r129sl]

€17k (and they're available much cheaper)
4x4
40mpg
Unbeatable for the long haul and it's not going to be fazed by the Alps.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...




Also available as a station wagon:

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...

Edited by r129sl on Thursday 26th November 22:13

[Kolbenkopp]

I just can't warm to post y2k MB styling, but these are *very* capable things if you don't need the ground clearance. Similar is available from BMW, F10 530d estate with AWD and the 8 speed ZF should work very well indeed.

Or, if less power / worse MPG will do - basically any Subaru that fits size wise?

[LDN]

Love the Benz... ground clearance may be an issue unfortunately...

Just spent an hour researching XC60's - seem to tick many boxes and can get 40 ish mpg depending on spec - but I've just read reports of leaking windscreens and that it's common; doesn't fill me with confidence

[RammyMP]

LDN said:

Love the Benz... ground clearance may be an issue unfortunately...

Just spent an hour researching XC60's - seem to tick many boxes and can get 40 ish mpg depending on spec - but I've just read reports of leaking windscreens and that it's common; doesn't fill me with confidence

A mate of mines just got a XC60, got in it the other night and guess what, the footwell is full of water!

[gizlaroc]

What W164 have you got?

I have done a few thousand miles in a 350cdi over the last couple of years, my old mans, nice enough car, fairly decent load space (although boot is small for the size of the car) interior is OK if nothing more than that though, but the MPG is poor. OBC says 29 most of the time. Does seem to matter what journeys, it always ends up back at 28/29. Calculated is about 26/27 though.

Last autumn I went through all the above trying to find something a bit newer and more economical than my old Ml270, which I bought when I didn't get on with my E350 estate, bought as a stop gap for a month or two and kept for 2 years.
I tried the XC60, Q5, FL2, Evoque, X3, GLA, W166 ML and new X5.

In the end the X3 won, it was comfier than the other, felt more fun, and so much better economy wise.
The other thing was the infotainment and connectivity made all the others look so dated and so many more used ones had decent options, heather seats and steering wheel, adaptive xenons, decent nav, internet, bluetooth with audio streaming, ipod connectivity with album art etc., pano roof, blah blah blah.

I get 37mpg from it just round town, and a genuine 50mpg on a run. It is only the 20d, but have a CRD-T+ on it and 0-60 is now just over 7 seconds and it is quicker than the ML350 and never feels lacking.
The OBC was well out, often showed close to 60mpg on a run, but I calibrated it and now absolutely bang on.

The XC60 was struggling to hit 35 on the day I had it, FL2 was 32mpg, Evoque was better but only 35mpg and far too small and flash looking for me, Q5 was quite nice to be fair, but not a patch on the X3, GLA was tiny but quite economical.


The new X5 was OK, but actually far more crashy than the X3, didn't ride anywhere near as well.
The ML350 was better than the W164 and much nicer interior, but it was only hitting 30mpg.


I was basically looking for something to do 20k miles a year in that was comfortable, practical, also fun to drive and cheap to run. The X3 hit all those criteria.

A year on I seriously can't fault it, in fact it is getting better and better, my problem with it is I was using it all the time, as was my wife, so ended up putting 20k miles on it in the first 6-7 months, which was going to slaughter the value. But that is not really a negative.
I did get a 30d for the day when it was serviced, it was around 6-10mpg worse off, a nicer engine for sure, but not worth the sacrifice in economy compared with the mapped 20d. This was a workhorse and it does what it is mean to do so well.


Mine is on 19" wheels with Pirelli P-Zero all seasons, not run flats BTW. When I collected the car BMW had put on 4 new tyres for me, I got 10 miles down the road and realised they had put run flats on, it was crap! Turned round and went back and they fitted proper tyres. So if testing cars, consider this.

[LDN]

RammyMP said:

LDN said:

Love the Benz... ground clearance may be an issue unfortunately...

Just spent an hour researching XC60's - seem to tick many boxes and can get 40 ish mpg depending on spec - but I've just read reports of leaking windscreens and that it's common; doesn't fill me with confidence

A mate of mines just got a XC60, got in it the other night and guess what, the footwell is full of water!

That is a coincidence for me to post about it... it truly seems to affect every single XC60 out there between certain years; if it hasn't happened yet, it will - type of thing. Massive shame. Tell him to read the threads related to the issue on Volvo forums, as many have managed to get it sorted for free - but many more haven't. It is a genuine manufacturing defect - even though it is sometimes denied by Volvo.

[LDN]

gizlaroc said:

What W164 have you got?

I have done a few thousand miles in a 350cdi over the last couple of years, my old mans, nice enough car, fairly decent load space (although boot is small for the size of the car) interior is OK if nothing more than that though, but the MPG is poor. OBC says 29 most of the time. Does seem to matter what journeys, it always ends up back at 28/29. Calculated is about 26/27 though.

Last autumn I went through all the above trying to find something a bit newer and more economical than my old Ml270, which I bought when I didn't get on with my E350 estate, bought as a stop gap for a month or two and kept for 2 years.
I tried the XC60, Q5, FL2, Evoque, X3, GLA, W166 ML and new X5.

In the end the X3 won, it was comfier than the other, felt more fun, and so much better economy wise.
The other thing was the infotainment and connectivity made all the others look so dated and so many more used ones had decent options, heather seats and steering wheel, adaptive xenons, decent nav, internet, bluetooth with audio streaming, ipod connectivity with album art etc., pano roof, blah blah blah.

I get 37mpg from it just round town, and a genuine 50mpg on a run. It is only the 20d, but have a CRD-T+ on it and 0-60 is now just over 7 seconds and it is quicker than the ML350 and never feels lacking.
The OBC was well out, often showed close to 60mpg on a run, but I calibrated it and now absolutely bang on.

The XC60 was struggling to hit 35 on the day I had it, FL2 was 32mpg, Evoque was better but only 35mpg and far too small and flash looking for me, Q5 was quite nice to be fair, but not a patch on the X3, GLA was tiny but quite economical.


The new X5 was OK, but actually far more crashy than the X3, didn't ride anywhere near as well.
The ML350 was better than the W164 and much nicer interior, but it was only hitting 30mpg.


I was basically looking for something to do 20k miles a year in that was comfortable, practical, also fun to drive and cheap to run. The X3 hit all those criteria.

A year on I seriously can't fault it, in fact it is getting better and better, my problem with it is I was using it all the time, as was my wife, so ended up putting 20k miles on it in the first 6-7 months, which was going to slaughter the value. But that is not really a negative.
I did get a 30d for the day when it was serviced, it was around 6-10mpg worse off, a nicer engine for sure, but not worth the sacrifice in economy compared with the mapped 20d. This was a workhorse and it does what it is mean to do so well.


Mine is on 19" wheels with Pirelli P-Zero all seasons, not run flats BTW. When I collected the car BMW had put on 4 new tyres for me, I got 10 miles down the road and realised they had put run flats on, it was crap! Turned round and went back and they fitted proper tyres. So if testing cars, consider this.

Thanks for the response; much appreciated! The W164 is a 320cdi and to be honest, it rarely reads higher than 23mpg on the dash... on the run to France, it will read between 20 and 30.

On paper, the X3 ticks a lot of boxes; is yours the newest one or one of the earlier models? Sitting in an earlier X3 after the ML felt like 'honey I shrunk the car' - it really did feel pokey inside - but I suppose it's all relative and the ML is a large cabin. The X3 certainly has great performance, especilly the larger engines but MPG wise, it seems your engine might be the best all-round if you are getting 50mpg on a run! That would halve my fuel bill and as I say, over the years; that amounts to a lot of £££ saved.

Edit to add; I can see you mean the newer X3... will take a look at them now.

Edited by LDN on Friday 27th November 00:23

[Rangeroverover]

Have you thought of LPG as its pretty cheap "on the continent" failing that how about an allroad, better mpg but only by about 40%

[LDN]

I think if the F25 - post 2010 - X3 can reach mid 40 / 50 mpg; then that may be the route to go; I note they are a lot larger than the original X3 also...