Private road and parking issues
Discussion
btcc123 said:
I would have thought all the people that park in the private road that should not came back to their cars to find they had a puncture may not park their next time and if they do may have another puncture.If it was me I think I would park somewhere else.
That is pathetic and that is exactly the sort of thing that escalates to violence in return Is this a “private access”, or is it a road that happens to be unadopted (and therefore privately-maintained)? Is it lit? Does it have its own street name? Are there gates or signs restricting access?
There are "roads" (defined as roads to which the public have access) and "public roads" (defined as "roads maintained at public expense" - ie adopted and maintained by the council). The only difference between those, is who maintains them. It doesn’t matter who “owns” it - the public right of access is exactly the same.
The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Section 1 states that: “The traffic authority for a road outside Greater London may make an order under this section (referred to in this Act as a “traffic regulation order”) in respect of the road where it appears to the authority making the order that it is expedient to make it—
(a) for avoiding danger to persons or other traffic using the road or any other road or for preventing the likelihood of any such danger arising, or
(b) for preventing damage to the road or to any building on or near the road, or
(c) for facilitating the passage on the road or any other road of any class of traffic (including pedestrians), or
(d) for preventing the use of the road by vehicular traffic of a kind which, or its use by vehicular traffic in a manner which, is unsuitable having regard to the existing character of the road or adjoining property, or
(e) (without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (d) above) for preserving the character of the road in a case where it is specially suitable for use by persons on horseback or on foot, or
(f) for preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs or
(g) for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a) to (c) of subsection (1) of section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (air quality).”
Section 2:
“(1) A traffic regulation order may make any provision prohibiting, restricting or regulating the use of a road, or of any part of the width of a road, by vehicular traffic, or by vehicular traffic of any class specified in the order,—
(a) either generally or subject to such exceptions as may be specified in the order or determined in a manner provided for by it, and
(b) subject to such exceptions as may be so specified or determined, either at all times or at times, on days or during periods so specified.
(2) The provision that may be made by a traffic regulation order] includes any provision—
(a) requiring vehicular traffic, or vehicular traffic of any class specified in the order, to proceed in a specified direction or prohibiting its so proceeding;
(b) specifying the part of the carriageway to be used by such traffic proceeding in a specified direction;
(c) prohibiting or restricting the waiting of vehicles or the loading and unloading of vehicles;
(d) prohibiting the use of roads by through traffic; or
(e) prohibiting or restricting overtaking.”
Note that in all of that, and indeed throughout the Act, there is no distinction between “public road” and “private road”. Section 142 makes this clear (without quoting every definition in that Section):
Section 142: General interpretation of Act.
(1) In this Act, except where the context otherwise requires, the following expressions have the meanings hereby assigned to them respectively, that is to say —
“public road” has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984;
“road”— (a) in England and Wales, means any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and
(b) in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984;
“traffic authority” and “local traffic authority” have the meaning given by section 121A of this Act;”
A “public road” is defined in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 (section 151) as “a road maintained at public expense”. There is no reference to public access, and no other differentiation whatsoever.
The RTRA1984 therefore applies to all “roads”, that is to say any “length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access” as above.
Now, the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 say that only signs complying with those regulations may be erected on roads (any other non-compliant sign can only be erected by specific authorisation of the Secretary of State). That means that parking and waiting can only be controlled by yellow lines and time plates, complying with the regs and Directions.
Direction 7(1) of TSRGD says that “Except as provided by paragraph (3), the signs to which this paragraph applies may be placed on or near a road only to indicate the effect of an Act, order, regulation, byelaw or notice (“the effect of a statutory provision”) which prohibits or restricts the use of the road by traffic.
So what that means so far, is that, whether the road is adopted or not, you the residents cannot put up signs to enforce parking, or to suggest that people park elsewhere. You cannot employ a parking enforcement company or hand out fines, or put up gates that restrict the public right of access. Only yellow lines can be used to control parking on roads (adopted or privately-maintained), they can only be put down to give effect to a Traffic Regulation Order, and only the highway authority (the council) can make Traffic Regulation Orders.
Unfortunately, many highway authorities seem to be unaware either (a) that they are responsible for parking control on private roads, or (b) that they have powers to do so. They may say (mistakenly but not entirely without precedent) that parking on private roads is nothing to do with them. They are wrong.
There are "roads" (defined as roads to which the public have access) and "public roads" (defined as "roads maintained at public expense" - ie adopted and maintained by the council). The only difference between those, is who maintains them. It doesn’t matter who “owns” it - the public right of access is exactly the same.
The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, Section 1 states that: “The traffic authority for a road outside Greater London may make an order under this section (referred to in this Act as a “traffic regulation order”) in respect of the road where it appears to the authority making the order that it is expedient to make it—
(a) for avoiding danger to persons or other traffic using the road or any other road or for preventing the likelihood of any such danger arising, or
(b) for preventing damage to the road or to any building on or near the road, or
(c) for facilitating the passage on the road or any other road of any class of traffic (including pedestrians), or
(d) for preventing the use of the road by vehicular traffic of a kind which, or its use by vehicular traffic in a manner which, is unsuitable having regard to the existing character of the road or adjoining property, or
(e) (without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (d) above) for preserving the character of the road in a case where it is specially suitable for use by persons on horseback or on foot, or
(f) for preserving or improving the amenities of the area through which the road runs or
(g) for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a) to (c) of subsection (1) of section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (air quality).”
Section 2:
“(1) A traffic regulation order may make any provision prohibiting, restricting or regulating the use of a road, or of any part of the width of a road, by vehicular traffic, or by vehicular traffic of any class specified in the order,—
(a) either generally or subject to such exceptions as may be specified in the order or determined in a manner provided for by it, and
(b) subject to such exceptions as may be so specified or determined, either at all times or at times, on days or during periods so specified.
(2) The provision that may be made by a traffic regulation order] includes any provision—
(a) requiring vehicular traffic, or vehicular traffic of any class specified in the order, to proceed in a specified direction or prohibiting its so proceeding;
(b) specifying the part of the carriageway to be used by such traffic proceeding in a specified direction;
(c) prohibiting or restricting the waiting of vehicles or the loading and unloading of vehicles;
(d) prohibiting the use of roads by through traffic; or
(e) prohibiting or restricting overtaking.”
Note that in all of that, and indeed throughout the Act, there is no distinction between “public road” and “private road”. Section 142 makes this clear (without quoting every definition in that Section):
Section 142: General interpretation of Act.
(1) In this Act, except where the context otherwise requires, the following expressions have the meanings hereby assigned to them respectively, that is to say —
“public road” has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984;
“road”— (a) in England and Wales, means any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and
(b) in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984;
“traffic authority” and “local traffic authority” have the meaning given by section 121A of this Act;”
A “public road” is defined in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 (section 151) as “a road maintained at public expense”. There is no reference to public access, and no other differentiation whatsoever.
The RTRA1984 therefore applies to all “roads”, that is to say any “length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access” as above.
Now, the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 say that only signs complying with those regulations may be erected on roads (any other non-compliant sign can only be erected by specific authorisation of the Secretary of State). That means that parking and waiting can only be controlled by yellow lines and time plates, complying with the regs and Directions.
Direction 7(1) of TSRGD says that “Except as provided by paragraph (3), the signs to which this paragraph applies may be placed on or near a road only to indicate the effect of an Act, order, regulation, byelaw or notice (“the effect of a statutory provision”) which prohibits or restricts the use of the road by traffic.
So what that means so far, is that, whether the road is adopted or not, you the residents cannot put up signs to enforce parking, or to suggest that people park elsewhere. You cannot employ a parking enforcement company or hand out fines, or put up gates that restrict the public right of access. Only yellow lines can be used to control parking on roads (adopted or privately-maintained), they can only be put down to give effect to a Traffic Regulation Order, and only the highway authority (the council) can make Traffic Regulation Orders.
Unfortunately, many highway authorities seem to be unaware either (a) that they are responsible for parking control on private roads, or (b) that they have powers to do so. They may say (mistakenly but not entirely without precedent) that parking on private roads is nothing to do with them. They are wrong.
rallycross said:
btcc123 said:
I would have thought all the people that park in the private road that should not came back to their cars to find they had a puncture may not park their next time and if they do may have another puncture.If it was me I think I would park somewhere else.
That is pathetic and that is exactly the sort of thing that escalates to violence in return 
t happens". Around London, I notice a disproportionally large proportion of cars with key jobs down the side are parked like idiots. Rightly or wrongly, stuff like that will happen to your car if you park like a chump. 
I was looking for Flashpark
Private as in unadopted so you pay a company to maintain it?
I live on one and people can park on it if they like. Its still a public road, we just pay CP Bigwood to look after it.
I really dont think you can stop anyone parking there as long as no obstruction is caused, you do not own the land and it is not private property.
I live on one and people can park on it if they like. Its still a public road, we just pay CP Bigwood to look after it.
I really dont think you can stop anyone parking there as long as no obstruction is caused, you do not own the land and it is not private property.
Breadvan72 said:
505diff said:
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
That could be worth a go, if the costs are reasonable. Smart business thinking by someone!I've come across various option of the Flashpark thing. On occasions the local ex-clamper now ticketer will turn up after a phone call to alert.
Gates as suggested - but there are so many complications such as delivery, bin men, visitors etc. Easy enough to intercom if it's one or two houses, a pain if it's a 100.
Gates as suggested - but there are so many complications such as delivery, bin men, visitors etc. Easy enough to intercom if it's one or two houses, a pain if it's a 100.
creampuff said:
rallycross said:
btcc123 said:
I would have thought all the people that park in the private road that should not came back to their cars to find they had a puncture may not park their next time and if they do may have another puncture.If it was me I think I would park somewhere else.
That is pathetic and that is exactly the sort of thing that escalates to violence in return t happens". Around London, I notice a disproportionally large proportion of cars with key jobs down the side are parked like idiots. Rightly or wrongly, stuff like that will happen to your car if you park like a chump. It has been said on here that leaving notes,talking etc does not make much difference and people will still park and be a nuisance.Keying the side of someones car is over the top in my opinion but tyre punctures are just about acceptable and would ultimately solve the problem certainly after getting a second will probably decide to park somewhere else.
I doubt it would escalates to violence as the person who parked the car would not know it was not a genuine nail in the tyre but with all case like this you have to or have people that are ready and prepared to handle any issues that arise.
I am no expert on criminal law. I faintly recall that there might be some statutory offence about interfering with a vehicle, but I dunno if that exists or what its ingredients are, and CBA to look this up, soz!
As for "no real damage", you either damage something or you don't. There would always be a risk that you would damage a car while moving it even if you didn't mean to.
The suggestion above of puncturing a tyre is plain daft, but it is very PH fighty big man, so points for that.
As for "no real damage", you either damage something or you don't. There would always be a risk that you would damage a car while moving it even if you didn't mean to.
The suggestion above of puncturing a tyre is plain daft, but it is very PH fighty big man, so points for that.
Get some large A3 sized self adhesive notices made up on thick paper, make sure they are very difficult scrape off and leave a residue that needs some cleaning agent to clean off.
Get the wording printed in large lettering to read on the line of;
"PRIVATE PROPERTY DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN. Your vehicle details have been recorded by CCTV"
Position on front screen and drivers window
If they return again put four of them on it.
Sit back and watch them enjoy trying to peel them off.
It worked for our private access road to works yard.
Anyone who got the arse met with gate man and large barking dog, the problem stopped over night.
Get the wording printed in large lettering to read on the line of;
"PRIVATE PROPERTY DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN. Your vehicle details have been recorded by CCTV"
Position on front screen and drivers window
If they return again put four of them on it.
Sit back and watch them enjoy trying to peel them off.
It worked for our private access road to works yard.
Anyone who got the arse met with gate man and large barking dog, the problem stopped over night.
SVTRick said:
Get some large A3 sized self adhesive notices made up on thick paper, make sure they are very difficult scrape off and leave a residue that needs some cleaning agent to clean off.
Get the wording printed in large lettering to read on the line of;
"PRIVATE PROPERTY DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN. Your vehicle details have been recorded by CCTV"
Position on front screen and drivers window
If they return again put four of them on it.
Sit back and watch them enjoy trying to peel them off.
It worked for our private access road to works yard.
Anyone who got the arse met with gate man and large barking dog, the problem stopped over night.
It isnt private property though!. The OP and residents dont own the road they just pay to maintain it and if there are no parking restrictions then anyone can park there. Get the wording printed in large lettering to read on the line of;
"PRIVATE PROPERTY DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN. Your vehicle details have been recorded by CCTV"
Position on front screen and drivers window
If they return again put four of them on it.
Sit back and watch them enjoy trying to peel them off.
It worked for our private access road to works yard.
Anyone who got the arse met with gate man and large barking dog, the problem stopped over night.
If someone stuck a sticker on my car I'd be f
king pissed off as I am sure the majority of posters on here would be. Greendubber said:
It isnt private property though!. The OP and residents dont own the road they just pay to maintain it and if there are no parking restrictions then anyone can park there.
If someone stuck a sticker on my car I'd be fking pissed off as I am sure the majority of posters on here would be.
If they pay to maintain the road its not adopted therefore maintained at owners expense - private.If someone stuck a sticker on my car I'd be f
king pissed off as I am sure the majority of posters on here would be. Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
SVTRick said:
If they pay to maintain the road its not adopted therefore maintained at owners expense - private.
Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
It still has public access and anyone can park there, I live one one and cant stop people parking on it as its still a road, road traffic act still applies etc. The residents do not own the road Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
You could get yourself into trouble putting stickers on peoples cars. If I tipped up and stuck a pointless A3 sized hard to remove sticker on your windscreen if you had parked legally how would you feel about it?
SVTRick said:
If they pay to maintain the road its not adopted therefore maintained at owners expense - private.
Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
Greendubber is correct, for the reasons I set out in my long post earlier. The only difference is who maintains it - the public right of access (and right to park on it) is exactly the same whether it's adopted or not. Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
tvrgit said:
SVTRick said:
If they pay to maintain the road its not adopted therefore maintained at owners expense - private.
Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
Greendubber is correct, for the reasons I set out in my long post earlier. The only difference is who maintains it - the public right of access (and right to park on it) is exactly the same whether it's adopted or not. Not public Highway.
I would be quite happy putting those stickers on and would not care how pissed off anyone was about it.
PS: "some bloke on peepipoo says so" is not authority.
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