Ditched Run-Flats

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Discussion

Ares

Original Poster:

11,000 posts

121 months

Thursday 3rd December 2015
quotequote all
Finally found and fitted a set of Michelin Super Sports.

Only done 70 miles, and all on damp/wet roads, so can't comment on dry grip, but already the change has been far greater than I expected.


The ride is in a different league. No crashing/banging over road surface imperfection, far softer/more compliant ride - but better steering feel, all but eradicated tram-lining, road noise less and wet grip improved. Even MrsA said something felt different and when she drove it, and said it felt 'lighter' to drive.

...and at 70 wet miles, they will only just have silicon/release agent worn off.


I've always been staunch defender of run-flats. On my old 330i on 18s, the difference was negligible - but perhaps due to 20"/30-profile tyres or perhaps just the performance of the Michelin SS - this is night and day.

I'll never willingly go for runflats again.

My 2p.....


cerb4.5lee

30,717 posts

181 months

Thursday 3rd December 2015
quotequote all
Couldn't agree more and we got rid of the run flats on the 640d(20" rims) in June and its a night and day difference.

I have always hated run flats regardless and I think its like travelling around with concrete wrapped around the wheels...I hate them even more now I have actually experienced the difference between the two.

Whoever came up with the idea of run flats deserves a good kick in the teeth! BMW can`t really rate them either as they don't fit them to their proper M cars(M3/M5 etc) so that tells you all you need to know about how lacklustre they are.

Leins

9,472 posts

149 months

Thursday 3rd December 2015
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First thing I did with my Mini, straight to Michelin PSS. Transformed the car

I left RFTs on my old E92 because of the mileage I was doing, thinking it would be convenient in case of a puncture. Never got one, but did end up with some nasty-looking lumps in the sidewalls on occasion. Just horrible tyres, turned to plastic in cold weather and feck all traction in the wet

Edited by Leins on Thursday 3rd December 18:23

Ares

Original Poster:

11,000 posts

121 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Finally got some dry running. League ahead of the RunFlats.

If you are running RFT and toying with changing....do it.

Only downside is that I'm going to have to increase the pressures as the ride is a little softer than I'd like, even with the Schnitzer suspension.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

247 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Ares said:
Finally found and fitted a set of Michelin Super Sports.

The ride is in a different league. No crashing/banging over road surface imperfection, far softer/more compliant ride - but better steering feel, all but eradicated tram-lining, road noise less and wet grip improved.

I'll never willingly go for runflats again.
Yes, that was exactly my experience too. A decent set of Michelin conventional tyres will simply wipe the floor with runflats.

MrBarry123

6,028 posts

122 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Run-flats are crap in comparison to normal tyres until you need to use the run-flat feature, then they become a Godsend.

JD PH

2,670 posts

118 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
The thing that baffles me is that a company like BMW - a company so keen to sell "the ultimate driving machine" faithfully stick to run flats when almost everyone can't wait to get a normal set of tyres fitted to their car, which more often than not is a huge improvement.

As mentioned, grip / traction wise they're especially bad in the wet and cold... and as for Ice and snow? Forget it!

MrBarry123

6,028 posts

122 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
JD PH said:
The thing that baffles me is that a company like BMW - a company so keen to sell "the ultimate driving machine" faithfully stick to run flats when almost everyone can't wait to get a normal set of tyres fitted to their car, which more often than not is a huge improvement.

As mentioned, grip / traction wise they're especially bad in the wet and cold... and as for Ice and snow? Forget it!
I'm sure it'll be something to do with an agreement between BMW and Bridgestone which means BMW puts Bridgestone run-flats on all new cars - run-flats being Bridgestone's most expensive, and probably most profitable, tyres - however with a caveat in the agreement that allows BMW to fit good tyres to cars which they actually want to be recognised for their driving abilities i.e. the M cars.

Gallen

2,162 posts

256 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Had a <brief> stint on the Beemer using non-run flats (P-Zero's, which I rated on my Porsche - and B'stone SO2's - but neither last long on the rear).

...Decided to go back on RFT's; if I was unfortunate enough to suffer a blow out with the kids in the car or whilst the missus was driving it was a risk I didn't think was worth it.

The car seems much more solid with them actually.

G.

Edited by Gallen on Monday 7th December 15:13

jon-

16,511 posts

217 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
JD PH said:
The thing that baffles me is that a company like BMW - a company so keen to sell "the ultimate driving machine" faithfully stick to run flats when almost everyone can't wait to get a normal set of tyres fitted to their car, which more often than not is a huge improvement.

As mentioned, grip / traction wise they're especially bad in the wet and cold... and as for Ice and snow? Forget it!
The latest generation runflats aren't as bad as everyone thinks, and while the purists on car forums would prefer normal tyres, runflats play an important role to "normal" people.

You'll find a runflat tread cap is normally made of the same compound, and has the same tread pattern as the non-runflat version of the tyre, so the cold weather and snow performance of the tyre should be comparable. The real issue comes from many of the runflats fitted to cars are made by Bridgestone, which are struggling with wet grip in all their tyres, not just runflat.

JD PH

2,670 posts

118 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
jon- said:
JD PH said:
The thing that baffles me is that a company like BMW - a company so keen to sell "the ultimate driving machine" faithfully stick to run flats when almost everyone can't wait to get a normal set of tyres fitted to their car, which more often than not is a huge improvement.

As mentioned, grip / traction wise they're especially bad in the wet and cold... and as for Ice and snow? Forget it!
The latest generation runflats aren't as bad as everyone thinks, and while the purists on car forums would prefer normal tyres, runflats play an important role to "normal" people.

You'll find a runflat tread cap is normally made of the same compound, and has the same tread pattern as the non-runflat version of the tyre, so the cold weather and snow performance of the tyre should be comparable. The real issue comes from many of the runflats fitted to cars are made by Bridgestone, which are struggling with wet grip in all their tyres, not just runflat.
Yeah, good point - not all run flats are created equal. I would say though that - even thought the grip levels are becoming comparable, and some people may not notice numb steering - the poor ride is hard to escape. Even my mother in law noticed it on her mini and her interest in cars only extends to a) whether is it a mini and b) what colour the mini is.

covmutley

3,028 posts

191 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Taking them off my 1 series made a huge change, presumably because the car was relatively light?

Maracus

4,243 posts

169 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
OP - Are you carrying around a can or two of tyre foam or using Ultraseal or something?

I'm interested, as I need new to replace the RFTs on both of our cars in the Spring.

TooLateForAName

4,754 posts

185 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
I bought a 16" spacesaver and carry it in the boot.

It was the wet handling/braking that did it for me. I was horrified the first time I had to stop suddenly in the rain.

JD PH

2,670 posts

118 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Maracus said:
OP - Are you carrying around a can or two of tyre foam or using Ultraseal or something?

I'm interested, as I need new to replace the RFTs on both of our cars in the Spring.
A can of foam and a small 12v compressor is all you get in a BMW M car...

Maracus

4,243 posts

169 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
JD PH said:
Maracus said:
OP - Are you carrying around a can or two of tyre foam or using Ultraseal or something?

I'm interested, as I need new to replace the RFTs on both of our cars in the Spring.
A can of foam and a small 12v compressor is all you get in a BMW M car...
Thanks.

I've heard about Ultraseal. Could be an alternative?

SteellFJ

793 posts

168 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Done this on a 320d last year and regretted it with a puncture weeks later, still much better than RFT's.


RicksAlfas

13,408 posts

245 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
JD PH said:
A can of foam and a small 12v compressor is all you get in a BMW M car...
Or an ED.
biggrin

jon-

16,511 posts

217 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
Maracus said:
JD PH said:
Maracus said:
OP - Are you carrying around a can or two of tyre foam or using Ultraseal or something?

I'm interested, as I need new to replace the RFTs on both of our cars in the Spring.
A can of foam and a small 12v compressor is all you get in a BMW M car...
Thanks.

I've heard about Ultraseal. Could be an alternative?
They work for a nail in the tread. You split the sidewall and the foam does sadly, nothing.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

221 months

Monday 7th December 2015
quotequote all
MrBarry123 said:
Run-flats are crap in comparison to normal tyres until you need to use the run-flat feature, then they become a Godsend.
Having never suffered a 'blow out', how does a run-flat equipped car feel when all the air escapes suddenly? Just curious / interested.

I've only ever been in an E60 5 series with run-flats and it felt OK to me. It was only a 520d mind!