When can we expect an AWD M5?
Discussion
W8PMC said:
BentleyM3 said:
Has this been confirmed or just assumption due to other marques going that way?
I've heard no mention of BMW confirming this & TBH i'd not get another M5 if they do go AWD.http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-...
mondie said:
Thanks for the link Eric, despite the idly amusing histerics in this thread its nice to read some veiled hints that it may happen.
No doubt there are some PH threads buried in the archives from sone poster asking whether the next M5 will be turbo
Yup and I guess the thread would be very similarNo doubt there are some PH threads buried in the archives from sone poster asking whether the next M5 will be turbo
paulmc said:
Yup and I guess the thread would be very similar
The biggest difference in those 2 scenarios is the BMW heritage of RWD vs. say Audi with AWD being available on everything & the mainstay of RS's. The RS6 for instance has been V8/V10 turbocharged, the M5 has been V8/V10 NA, however the entire automotive industry is reducing CC & adding turbos, but it's not applying AWD to every model in the range & hopefully not the true M models.I get the the safety & perceived security of AWD & have had many powerful cars benefitting from it, but point & squirt isn't often the most rewarding driving dynamic, however to some it may be preferred.
The draw of many to BMW has always been RWD, I doubt it's been NA vs. however I concede that although I'd unlikely ever want an AWD M, it is no doubt a possibility no matter how many M buyers wouldn't like it.
mondie said:
Thanks for the link Eric, despite the idly amusing histerics in this thread its nice to read some veiled hints that it may happen.
No doubt there are some PH threads buried in the archives from sone poster asking whether the next M5 will be turbo
That all depends whether you like RWD and N/a cars and think that the driving experience is more relevant than 0-60 times and being able to remap your car. No doubt there are some PH threads buried in the archives from sone poster asking whether the next M5 will be turbo
And of course whether you bother to buy these kind of cars, I do so I guess you could say I have some skin in the game like others.
With the current M5 lots of time was spent trying to get rid of the turbo characteristics of the engine, minimising lag/boost threshold by putting the turbos in the V, trying to make the thing act N/a, I wonder why? Yes they have no choice on that front but they don't have to go down the AWD route, we have Audi for that.
Wills2 said:
but they don't have to go down the AWD route, we have Audi for that.
Yes but Audi's pricing is not as aggressive as BMWs. BMW could clean up the big fast saloon market. I cant see why they wont go AWD I think it's just a matter of time.BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
paulmc said:
Wills2 said:
but they don't have to go down the AWD route, we have Audi for that.
Yes but Audi's pricing is not as aggressive as BMWs. BMW could clean up the big fast saloon market. I cant see why they wont go AWD I think it's just a matter of time.BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
Trying to put down anything north of 300 bhp on anything other than dry conditions can be a pain in the back side.
I think BMW might, at some point change to AWD but it won't be a case of 50 50 or even 60 40. I think it would be a very RWD biase and if anything maybe according to the settings, normal driving would be say 70% rear and 30% up front, full on attack mode would be 90 rear or 100% and then 10 or 0% up front.
BMW are generally very smart with their tech and options. I think if BMW did change to some variation of AWD I would be shocked if they done it at a cost of their ethos of RWD Fun. As far as I am concerned they are market leaders and from what I have seen over the last decade they do very well to convince even the biggest critics.
We also have to be mindful that people wanting RWD only IS a minority, We also have people on PH saying ooo I will never buy a AWD M5 but I could bet 5 quid for everytime that happens and they go test drive it, love it and buy it.
Same was said for manuals, its all over PH, we love manuals, manuals is a real drivers feeling yet if you try and find one, you cant, people won't actually buy it.
Edited by IATM on Tuesday 29th December 09:17
paulmc said:
Yes but Audi's pricing is not as aggressive as BMWs. BMW could clean up the big fast saloon market. I cant see why they wont go AWD I think it's just a matter of time.
BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
It is now. Audi chose to discount later in the RS6's lifecycle & BMW early in the M5's, which i think was an excellent move by BMW. I always wonder why Audi RS buyers put up with being picked about as many early adopters are now faced with epic depreciation based on what they paid as they got no discount. Today you can pick up a brand new FL RS6 with 15% discount which see's them hitting the road at £66k, a far more reasonable proposition.BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
I'd say BMW do own the fast saloon market in the midsize as they've only the E63 to compete with now Audi don't do a Saloon RS6.
W8PMC said:
paulmc said:
Yes but Audi's pricing is not as aggressive as BMWs. BMW could clean up the big fast saloon market. I cant see why they wont go AWD I think it's just a matter of time.
BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
It is now. Audi chose to discount later in the RS6's lifecycle & BMW early in the M5's, which i think was an excellent move by BMW. I always wonder why Audi RS buyers put up with being picked about as many early adopters are now faced with epic depreciation based on what they paid as they got no discount. Today you can pick up a brand new FL RS6 with 15% discount which see's them hitting the road at £66k, a far more reasonable proposition.BMW M5 V8 Twin Turbo engine is fantastic, marry it to AWD and I would have one in a second. I wonder how many Audi drivers would do the same ??
I'd say BMW do own the fast saloon market in the midsize as they've only the E63 to compete with now Audi don't do a Saloon RS6.
W8PMC said:
It is now. Audi chose to discount later in the RS6's lifecycle & BMW early in the M5's, which i think was an excellent move by BMW. I always wonder why Audi RS buyers put up with being picked about as many early adopters are now faced with epic depreciation based on what they paid as they got no discount. Today you can pick up a brand new FL RS6 with 15% discount which see's them hitting the road at £66k, a far more reasonable proposition.
I'd say BMW do own the fast saloon market in the midsize as they've only the E63 to compete with now Audi don't do a Saloon RS6.
The BM is still a good chunk cheaper. £15k off compared to 15% for the Audi. 0% finance and £10K lower final payment. Makes the BMW almost cheap.I'd say BMW do own the fast saloon market in the midsize as they've only the E63 to compete with now Audi don't do a Saloon RS6.
Saloon, estate same thing in my book.
theboss said:
£66k is compelling - the RS6 has a huge appeal to me - but even so the standard M5 can now be had for below £59k and the 0% finance must be worth a few grand even for a cash buyer. For me personally, the 0% made the M5 viable because at pesent I'm not in a position to accumulate £60k for the purpose of buying a car but wouln't borrow the same at any cost either. If the RS6 and E63 were offered on comparable terms I'd definitely have checked them out. Comparative residual values don't really matter to me as I'd always be throwing high mileage at the car and aiming to keep long term.
I had an F10 M5 about 18 months ago and sold it after 6 months. The time came to buy another big fast car so I ordered another M5 as the deal was sooo good I though it was rude not to but the lack of traction played on my mind form the last M5 and I ended up cancelling it and buying and RS6. Pity as I really liked the M5, don't get me wrong the RS6 is pretty awesome but I am just a BMW guy. Roll on AWD M5 lolpaulmc said:
yes but I doubt you will buy either. 911 4wd also.
bored with the lack of involvement, must be the way you drive lol
Nah I am only yanking your chain. Everyone is different in what they like. I liked the M5 but too little traction for me (obviously the way I drive). I think the 4wd M5 would be worth a drive. M5 being 4.4 must have huge potential for big power if it can put it to the road
and bring back an estate. RS6 ordered instead. bored with the lack of involvement, must be the way you drive lol
Nah I am only yanking your chain. Everyone is different in what they like. I liked the M5 but too little traction for me (obviously the way I drive). I think the 4wd M5 would be worth a drive. M5 being 4.4 must have huge potential for big power if it can put it to the road
paulmc said:
The BM is still a good chunk cheaper. £15k off compared to 15% for the Audi. 0% finance and £10K lower final payment. Makes the BMW almost cheap.
Saloon, estate same thing in my book.
The BMW is indeed cheaper as when Audi launched the FL cars the price went up so i believe a FL C7 RS6 with the same standard spec as the F10 M5 is list about £9k more expensive (some of that is purely the price difference & the balance are the options to bring up to F10 M5 spec).Saloon, estate same thing in my book.
However the delta has closed massively over the last 6-9mths as the current discounts on offer are aligned given the current OTR prices for a base spec only differ by circa £6-7k, however 12+mths ago this gap was closer to £15k.
What do you mean by a £10k lower final payment as that's not a good thing? Are you saying BMW's GFV is £10k higher on the M5 than it is on the RS6 as i really can't see that being the case.
theboss said:
£66k is compelling - the RS6 has a huge appeal to me - but even so the standard M5 can now be had for below £59k and the 0% finance must be worth a few grand even for a cash buyer. For me personally, the 0% made the M5 viable because at pesent I'm not in a position to accumulate £60k for the purpose of buying a car but wouln't borrow the same at any cost either. If the RS6 and E63 were offered on comparable terms I'd definitely have checked them out. Comparative residual values don't really matter to me as I'd always be throwing high mileage at the car and aiming to keep long term.
The E63 was on the same terms as the F10 M5 when i bought mine, the RS6 however certainly wasn't & only now is falling in line price wise (a regular Audi RS trait).There is almost no doubt a highly rear biased system based around X drive will be released. AMG doing the same. I too like the M5 but they need to up the game on their interiors. Whilst very nice the new E class is a stunner. Id be looking for digital dash (Virtual cockpit) lifted from the new 7 series. Drop at least 100kg. At least 600hp. They can keep all this hand gesturing and self drive crap. Laser headlights, great connectivity. I also think the new E63 will be a real beast
I'm generally a AWD fan, but I think RWD suits the M5 better. I have the V8 twin turbo, and yes it does wag its tail happily when pushed, but I just feel its in the very character of the car and should stay that way.
I think one way to get an 'idea' of what a 4wd M5 would be like is to see what the power delivery in the X5 M is like, although handling and suspension will still be very different.
I think one way to get an 'idea' of what a 4wd M5 would be like is to see what the power delivery in the X5 M is like, although handling and suspension will still be very different.
If they can do a rear biased system like the GTR it's a no brainer in the UK with the amount of rainfall we seem to have. You can slide the GTR on demand and catapult out of corners without sliding on demand also. It takes more effort to drive around oversteering everywhere in the GTR but no more effort than to drive an M5 tidily + quickly in adverse conditions.
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