Discussion
Need some advice on what to do. Had my house renovated last year. Builder completed most of the jobs but to a poor standard and eventually resigned from the job as he said he couldn't meet our high expectations. We spent around 35k and payed weekly. He over ran by several weeks. We're still sorting issues out and have spent around 4K sort various poor quality work such as repaintung walls and sorting electrics. In hindsight we should of sacked him as we saw the poor work early on but expected it to be put right, I have had no contact with the builder since June 15. He's refuses to reply to emails or phone calls. I realise my best thing to do would be small claims but would be really cough up for the poor work? Any advice would be great. Thanks
Difficult one to answer without more detail. What was done for the price? was this labour only or materials included. What was the nature of the refurb, heating, plumbing, construction, decor? Was an estimate or quote produced against a specification or was it just the usual general chat and a price negotiated? Did you agree any retention? I've seen many a bathroom costing £35k not including the A/V system. You may well have been ripped off or had a lot done for the price. Post the details and others will no doubt help you do decide on a course of action.
You'll need to prove the work wasn't up to standard and you will need photos etc to back that up.
Could be quite tricky now if you have already rectified a lot of the work? I don't think you'd get anywhere trying to sue him if you don't have any pictures etc.
If there is still work that needs sorting, I would also speak to a Chartered Building Surveyor and ask them to do a report. They should be able to say what is done to an acceptable standard and estimate costs to sort what isn't.
I'd imagine that is the sort of information you'd need as a minimum if trying to make a claim.
Could be quite tricky now if you have already rectified a lot of the work? I don't think you'd get anywhere trying to sue him if you don't have any pictures etc.
If there is still work that needs sorting, I would also speak to a Chartered Building Surveyor and ask them to do a report. They should be able to say what is done to an acceptable standard and estimate costs to sort what isn't.
I'd imagine that is the sort of information you'd need as a minimum if trying to make a claim.
Unless you are seriously out of pocket, chalk it up to experience and do a better selection job next time. The time, effort and hassle of using the legal system is simply not worth it unless you're massively out of pocket (and still have deep pockets) or left in a bad situation you can't rectify.
If you want to try the court route you will have to prove that the work was of a poor standard.
On the stuff you've had rectified that's likely to be difficult.
I note you also mention issues with the electrics. Was the original builder a qualified electrician?
You need to get the rest evaluated by a qualified expert professional such as suggested above. Bear in mind that if your are over picky they may not agree that the work is of a poor standard.
This is going to cost you money.
You may find that the Judge doesn't agree with you.
No guarantee that you will get any money back.
On the stuff you've had rectified that's likely to be difficult.
I note you also mention issues with the electrics. Was the original builder a qualified electrician?
You need to get the rest evaluated by a qualified expert professional such as suggested above. Bear in mind that if your are over picky they may not agree that the work is of a poor standard.
This is going to cost you money.
You may find that the Judge doesn't agree with you.
No guarantee that you will get any money back.
Edited by paintman on Saturday 19th March 15:35
You could issue the claim for say £4k and then try and mediate a lower amount like £3k.
If you do get judgment and mediation doesn't work then you could have it enforced by an HCEO. It's worth understanding if he has the means to pay or has assets that can be seized if necessary.
Here's a guide if you do need it enforced... http://thesheriffsoffice.com/resources/ebook
If you do get judgment and mediation doesn't work then you could have it enforced by an HCEO. It's worth understanding if he has the means to pay or has assets that can be seized if necessary.
Here's a guide if you do need it enforced... http://thesheriffsoffice.com/resources/ebook
Edited by Paddle Shift on Saturday 19th March 15:41
Sorry for the late reply. We had a full renovation of a 3 bedroom property. This included:
Repointing of all exterior brick work
Re do wall ties
Remove a chimney stack
Fix any lose tiles and ridge tiles
Paint outside rendering
Install 2 large new bay windows
Replace 7 other normal sized Windows
Fit a bathroom suite
Fit a kitchen
Replaster all walls
Paint all walls
Remove old carpet
Knock down non supporting wall to create an open plan kitchen diner
Knock down wall in bathroom to create a large one
Create a loft hatch and board out loft
Paint radiators
Replace conservatory roof
Re wire whole house
Cover up old fire place
There is probably a bit more but that covers most of it. All the above was completed but standard has been poor. For example when they boarded out the loft they removed the insulation so I've had to have that sorted. Conservatory roof was to small but they fitted it anyway, electrics were re done for free by a friend. Job ran over 4 weeks late. We should have stopped payments then. Damage was caused to kitchen units. Poorly fitted tiles in bathroom and kitchen. General poor attention to detail. Thanks
Repointing of all exterior brick work
Re do wall ties
Remove a chimney stack
Fix any lose tiles and ridge tiles
Paint outside rendering
Install 2 large new bay windows
Replace 7 other normal sized Windows
Fit a bathroom suite
Fit a kitchen
Replaster all walls
Paint all walls
Remove old carpet
Knock down non supporting wall to create an open plan kitchen diner
Knock down wall in bathroom to create a large one
Create a loft hatch and board out loft
Paint radiators
Replace conservatory roof
Re wire whole house
Cover up old fire place
There is probably a bit more but that covers most of it. All the above was completed but standard has been poor. For example when they boarded out the loft they removed the insulation so I've had to have that sorted. Conservatory roof was to small but they fitted it anyway, electrics were re done for free by a friend. Job ran over 4 weeks late. We should have stopped payments then. Damage was caused to kitchen units. Poorly fitted tiles in bathroom and kitchen. General poor attention to detail. Thanks
Marvtec said:
Sounds a lot of work for 35k, if the kitchen and bathroom are a fair size and decent spec then I'd consider it good value and move on. Perhaps he realised he'd under quoted and cut corners. Or perhaps you're overly fussy, who knows.
I read it as fit, not supply and fit.DaGuv said:
Sorry for the late reply. We had a full renovation of a 3 bedroom property. This included:
.......
That's quite a list, and quite a lot of potential for variation. Did you have a professional advisor to guide you on what is an acceptable standard and did you have a contract in place? .......
We had a payment plan and that's it. I think things could of been done a lot better on our side. We placed to much trust in the builder. References were fine. He did a great job on the house opposite. In the end he resigned on the grounds that he couldn't meet our expectations after producing a snag list at his request. We kept a retention payment. He did hint earlier in the build that he didn't charge us enough.
The biggest issue with all these scenarios and this excludes the ability to recover cost, specifications etc etc is Expectation:
The courts would only upheld costs in relation to a reasonable standard. I'm not saying this is the case but we often see a mismatch between the industry norm and resonable standard and what an individual expects. Thats not to say I don't see crap work as well!
It is understanding and proving that the quality of work fell below that of a reasonably competent builder. Often it is a case of slightly higher expectatiosn form client with a slightly below level of build is seen as massively crap!!
Either way could be difficult to do anything if you have rectified the works..
The courts would only upheld costs in relation to a reasonable standard. I'm not saying this is the case but we often see a mismatch between the industry norm and resonable standard and what an individual expects. Thats not to say I don't see crap work as well!
It is understanding and proving that the quality of work fell below that of a reasonably competent builder. Often it is a case of slightly higher expectatiosn form client with a slightly below level of build is seen as massively crap!!
Either way could be difficult to do anything if you have rectified the works..
Running through your list and assuming an average size 3 bed detached house built around 1960 I reckon it out at £52k +vat. So if you spend say £10k on refinish work you still have a bargain. Your builder made a basic error of not having a proper bill of quantities drawn up and properly costed. You win by a large margin.
duckwhistle said:
Running through your list and assuming an average size 3 bed detached house built around 1960 I reckon it out at £52k +vat. So if you spend say £10k on refinish work you still have a bargain. Your builder made a basic error of not having a proper bill of quantities drawn up and properly costed. You win by a large margin.
I did some ball park numbers and came up with 48k as a minimum. I agree with the above, put a few quid more into it and you'll still have an 'on budget' project that's finished to your satisfaction. It really isn't worth trying to win anything back for the failings of the first builder, let it go and focus on getting the project done and dusted.Thats a long list of fairly varied work for one man band, with lots of pieces that are easy to do badly, harder to do well, for example with kitchens, the devil is in the detail , which takes time.
Is it all easily recoverable/tidied up? If it is a straightforward snag list I would just get recommended trades in and I think you still got an OK deal
Trouble is that you have to find decent people to come in and finish someone elses mess, which is hard work unless you have decent contacts.
Is it all easily recoverable/tidied up? If it is a straightforward snag list I would just get recommended trades in and I think you still got an OK deal
Trouble is that you have to find decent people to come in and finish someone elses mess, which is hard work unless you have decent contacts.
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