Mortgage - Sui Generis planning - 7 bed or more HMO
Discussion
Got a last minute problem raised by mortgage company, its not something I aware of and those Ive spoken too also dont seam to understand it.
The mortgage company are saying "As the property is over 6 rooms, it will have required "sui generis" planning. In the absence of this, we'll need a certificate of lawful use as we can't accept indemnity insurance to cover this."
Im told that sui generis planning isnt enforceable on large HMO's used for this purpose for more than 10years, so very few people have it? This especially seams true in my local area, most of the large landlords I spoke to yesterday had never heard of it.
This was raised at 5pm on Thursday and we where due to complete on Wednesday, fantastic timing. Cant really deal with it until the planning office reopens Tuesday.
Anyone offer an clarity on this please?
This looks pretty clear cut. Land and buildings may not be used for purposes that are not within the use class for which they received planning permission. Changing the use of a development from one class to another may require planning permission. Some minor changes of use are permitted without the need for a planning application - for example changing a restaurant into a shop.
‘Sui generis’ buildings are those that do not fall within any particular use class. The Latin term 'sui generis' means ‘of its own kind’. They need specific one-off planning consent and include,
Theatres.
Houses in multiple paying occupation.
Hostels providing no significant element of care.
Scrap yards.
Petrol filling stations and shops selling and / or displaying motor vehicles.
Retail warehouse clubs.
Nightclubs.
Launderettes.
Dry cleaners.
Taxi businesses.
Amusement centres.
Casinos.
‘Sui generis’ buildings are those that do not fall within any particular use class. The Latin term 'sui generis' means ‘of its own kind’. They need specific one-off planning consent and include,
Theatres.
Houses in multiple paying occupation.
Hostels providing no significant element of care.
Scrap yards.
Petrol filling stations and shops selling and / or displaying motor vehicles.
Retail warehouse clubs.
Nightclubs.
Launderettes.
Dry cleaners.
Taxi businesses.
Amusement centres.
Casinos.
Don't get caught up on the term "Sui Generis" here. Yes, as a 7 bed+ HMO it doesn't fit into anywhere else in the Use Classes Order so it is a Sui Generis use.
The pertinent question is does the property have planning consent for its present use as a 7 bed + House in Multiple Occupation.
If so, get a copy of the decision notice and you're home and dry. It matters not whether that permission mentions that it relates to a Sui Generis use or not.
If it doesn't have an extant permission for a 7 bed + HMO, then it might well be immune from enforcement action if that use has occurred for more than 4 years and has not been abandoned. However, just because it's technically immune from enforcement doesn't mean it's legal.
The mechanism for sorting this out is to obtain a Certificate of Lawfulness for an Existing Development to give it's correct title; they are commonly referred to as a Lawful Development Certificate. You apply for this to the planning authority, submitting a form and evidence that the use has continued for more than 4 years. Evidence can be in the form of HMO licence records, council tax records, rent records, affidavits from residents, anything really - but you must prove on the balance of probabilities that it has been 7 or more units for more than 4 years. Planning policy is not considered - only your evidence. Note that it is for you to prove your case, not for the planning authority to disprove it, so make sure your evidence is up to scratch.
A decision could take up to 8 weeks, maybe longer, but if your evidence is compelling it's an easy file for a planning officer to turn around so it should be quicker than a full application.
The pertinent question is does the property have planning consent for its present use as a 7 bed + House in Multiple Occupation.
If so, get a copy of the decision notice and you're home and dry. It matters not whether that permission mentions that it relates to a Sui Generis use or not.
If it doesn't have an extant permission for a 7 bed + HMO, then it might well be immune from enforcement action if that use has occurred for more than 4 years and has not been abandoned. However, just because it's technically immune from enforcement doesn't mean it's legal.
The mechanism for sorting this out is to obtain a Certificate of Lawfulness for an Existing Development to give it's correct title; they are commonly referred to as a Lawful Development Certificate. You apply for this to the planning authority, submitting a form and evidence that the use has continued for more than 4 years. Evidence can be in the form of HMO licence records, council tax records, rent records, affidavits from residents, anything really - but you must prove on the balance of probabilities that it has been 7 or more units for more than 4 years. Planning policy is not considered - only your evidence. Note that it is for you to prove your case, not for the planning authority to disprove it, so make sure your evidence is up to scratch.
A decision could take up to 8 weeks, maybe longer, but if your evidence is compelling it's an easy file for a planning officer to turn around so it should be quicker than a full application.
quinny100 said:
Don't get caught up on the term "Sui Generis" here. Yes, as a 7 bed+ HMO it doesn't fit into anywhere else in the Use Classes Order so it is a Sui Generis use.
The pertinent question is does the property have planning consent for its present use as a 7 bed + House in Multiple Occupation.
If so, get a copy of the decision notice and you're home and dry. It matters not whether that permission mentions that it relates to a Sui Generis use or not.
If it doesn't have an extant permission for a 7 bed + HMO, then it might well be immune from enforcement action if that use has occurred for more than 4 years and has not been abandoned. However, just because it's technically immune from enforcement doesn't mean it's legal.
The mechanism for sorting this out is to obtain a Certificate of Lawfulness for an Existing Development to give it's correct title; they are commonly referred to as a Lawful Development Certificate. You apply for this to the planning authority, submitting a form and evidence that the use has continued for more than 4 years. Evidence can be in the form of HMO licence records, council tax records, rent records, affidavits from residents, anything really - but you must prove on the balance of probabilities that it has been 7 or more units for more than 4 years. Planning policy is not considered - only your evidence. Note that it is for you to prove your case, not for the planning authority to disprove it, so make sure your evidence is up to scratch.
A decision could take up to 8 weeks, maybe longer, but if your evidence is compelling it's an easy file for a planning officer to turn around so it should be quicker than a full application.
Brilliant! Thanks for that.The pertinent question is does the property have planning consent for its present use as a 7 bed + House in Multiple Occupation.
If so, get a copy of the decision notice and you're home and dry. It matters not whether that permission mentions that it relates to a Sui Generis use or not.
If it doesn't have an extant permission for a 7 bed + HMO, then it might well be immune from enforcement action if that use has occurred for more than 4 years and has not been abandoned. However, just because it's technically immune from enforcement doesn't mean it's legal.
The mechanism for sorting this out is to obtain a Certificate of Lawfulness for an Existing Development to give it's correct title; they are commonly referred to as a Lawful Development Certificate. You apply for this to the planning authority, submitting a form and evidence that the use has continued for more than 4 years. Evidence can be in the form of HMO licence records, council tax records, rent records, affidavits from residents, anything really - but you must prove on the balance of probabilities that it has been 7 or more units for more than 4 years. Planning policy is not considered - only your evidence. Note that it is for you to prove your case, not for the planning authority to disprove it, so make sure your evidence is up to scratch.
A decision could take up to 8 weeks, maybe longer, but if your evidence is compelling it's an easy file for a planning officer to turn around so it should be quicker than a full application.
Do you know for sure the 4 year rule applies and not the 10 year?
I have all the tenancy agreements going back 6 years, which is hopefully enough evidence if the 4 year rule applies.
As a temporary measure, I really hope a letter from planning would satisfy the mortgage company, saying if a "a certificate of lawful use" was applied for it would likely be granted. Its doubtful but worth a try.
Edited by AnimalMother on Sunday 27th March 12:24
To be completely safe you'll need to prove 10 years. 4 years is for a single dwelling or any building operations.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO licence since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO licence since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
quinny100 said:
To be completely safe you'll need to prove 10 years. 4 years is for a single dwelling or any building operations.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO license since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
Thanks again quinny100, your help has been really useful! Got the letter from the HMO office showing more than 10 years use, and planning have agreed to write to me saying "If I was to apply for a certificate of use, with the evidence from the HMO office I would be likely to be successful", I dont have this letter in my hand yet though! Fingers crossed, I actually get it and the mortgage company will accept it. http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO license since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
There are two HMO bits that are given by two different departments. In Exeter it works like this.
HMO licence from Environmental Health Dept: If you tick all the right boxes and have the right amount of plug sockets and smoke detectors etc they will grant you an HMO licence. They don't care and don't inform the planning dept. There are quite a few student properties that have an HMO licence from EH that do not have planning or change of use; many of the owners think that as they have a "licence" from the Council that all is well. I apply for quite a few of these for clients and have asked the EH person at the Council "if I tick all the boxes but don't have planning or change of use will you still give me the licence" answedr "Yes".
Planning dept: They will allow change of use to HMO from normal domestic dwelling. I had to do one recently that is in an embargo zone, had to provide all the ASts going back to 2010 and evidence of rent payments etc before they would grant change of use to an HMO.
So it's important to remember there are two sides to HMO
HMO licence from Environmental Health Dept: If you tick all the right boxes and have the right amount of plug sockets and smoke detectors etc they will grant you an HMO licence. They don't care and don't inform the planning dept. There are quite a few student properties that have an HMO licence from EH that do not have planning or change of use; many of the owners think that as they have a "licence" from the Council that all is well. I apply for quite a few of these for clients and have asked the EH person at the Council "if I tick all the boxes but don't have planning or change of use will you still give me the licence" answedr "Yes".
Planning dept: They will allow change of use to HMO from normal domestic dwelling. I had to do one recently that is in an embargo zone, had to provide all the ASts going back to 2010 and evidence of rent payments etc before they would grant change of use to an HMO.
So it's important to remember there are two sides to HMO
quinny100 said:
To be completely safe you'll need to prove 10 years. 4 years is for a single dwelling or any building operations.
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO licence since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
quinny100!!!!http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guid...
I very much doubt you'll get a letter of comfort from the planning authority. You might be able to get a letter from the housing department confirming it has had a HMO licence since 2006; this is probably the best evidence as the property will have been inspected.
The HMO evidence and letter from planning worked! So happy!!
Thanks
RE: Rangeroverover - lesson learned here. It appears our local authority haven't implemented this as it should be. Perhaps as the legislation with regard C4 usage on up to 6 bed HMO's only started in Wales this year, 28th February 2016.
Strange timing, I have a new client who has applied for planning to extend his HMO from 7 bed to 8 bed. He has just found out the hard way that the HMO "licence" from the council EH dept doesn't impress the planning dept. He has just found out that he is now the proud owner of a residential house that cannot be an HMO. Turns out his conveyancing lawyer didn't know the difference either.
Rangeroverover said:
Strange timing, I have a new client who has applied for planning to extend his HMO from 7 bed to 8 bed. He has just found out the hard way that the HMO "licence" from the council EH dept doesn't impress the planning dept. He has just found out that he is now the proud owner of a residential house that cannot be an HMO. Turns out his conveyancing lawyer didn't know the difference either.
Ouch! Is it okay for him to continue using as a 6 bed, as that's below the need for Sui Generous use?Its a subject thats misunderstood by many, embarrassingly I include myself in that group.
I am aware you cant buy a large residential and turn it into a HMO with out planning. But when this planning rule came into force I don't no, as older HMOs don't seam to have the appropriate planning or use.
Do you know if planning is needed to convert a small HMO, for example a 4 bedroom? (something that is just under mandatory HMO licensing)
Rangeroverover said:
Strange timing, I have a new client who has applied for planning to extend his HMO from 7 bed to 8 bed. He has just found out the hard way that the HMO "licence" from the council EH dept doesn't impress the planning dept. He has just found out that he is now the proud owner of a residential house that cannot be an HMO. Turns out his conveyancing lawyer didn't know the difference either.
Rangeroverover; I just bought a large HMO in Exeter - I am compiling an application for Lawfulness of Existing use - are you a solicitor? If so would like to speak All - I need help on this topic.
Have bought a 10 bed that was previously owned by the University and let to students, I have original documentation from uni showing change of use to annexe to halls of residence and floor plans from the 80's. No change from this point on from planning.
Council accept building is an hmo but recently rejected my application on the grounds its unclear how many rooms existing use covers. Saying unclear whether it was C4 or Sui Generis in the first place - although i assume 'annexe to halls of residence' is sui generic
How can i go about proving existing use?
I have:
sporadic ASTs over 10 year period
affidavit from a previous tenant
council tax bills for bedsits although doesn't say how many rooms
floor plan from enivorment dept showing 11 rooms
some docs from uni of exe
I was thinking to write to council housing / planning / environment depts separately to obtain evidence.
Certificate is vitally important to me. Any help in how to structure application much appreciated
Have bought a 10 bed that was previously owned by the University and let to students, I have original documentation from uni showing change of use to annexe to halls of residence and floor plans from the 80's. No change from this point on from planning.
Council accept building is an hmo but recently rejected my application on the grounds its unclear how many rooms existing use covers. Saying unclear whether it was C4 or Sui Generis in the first place - although i assume 'annexe to halls of residence' is sui generic
How can i go about proving existing use?
I have:
sporadic ASTs over 10 year period
affidavit from a previous tenant
council tax bills for bedsits although doesn't say how many rooms
floor plan from enivorment dept showing 11 rooms
some docs from uni of exe
I was thinking to write to council housing / planning / environment depts separately to obtain evidence.
Certificate is vitally important to me. Any help in how to structure application much appreciated
C4 is up to 6 occupants, so it sounds like you just need to demonstrate that there have been more than 6 occupants in the property for the required period. If you don't have tenancy records and council tax records don't record the number of occupants then I'm not sure. Can the university help?
Brucedickinson said:
Rangeroverover; I just bought a large HMO in Exeter - I am compiling an application for Lawfulness of Existing use - are you a solicitor? If so would like to speak
Hi I'm not a solicitor I am an agent, we deal with about 350 student rentals and also normal civilian rentals, also sell and buy HMO for clients. If you would like a chat or any help PM me, happy to help.I have sorted lawfullness certs for clients and have a v good relationship with the planners.
Tried to PM you but you have it switched off
Brucedickinson said:
All - I need help on this topic.
Have bought a 10 bed that was previously owned by the University and let to students, I have original documentation from uni showing change of use to annexe to halls of residence and floor plans from the 80's. No change from this point on from planning.
Council accept building is an hmo but recently rejected my application on the grounds its unclear how many rooms existing use covers. Saying unclear whether it was C4 or Sui Generis in the first place - although i assume 'annexe to halls of residence' is sui generic
How can i go about proving existing use?
I have:
sporadic ASTs over 10 year period
affidavit from a previous tenant
council tax bills for bedsits although doesn't say how many rooms
floor plan from enivorment dept showing 11 rooms
some docs from uni of exe
I was thinking to write to council housing / planning / environment depts separately to obtain evidence.
Certificate is vitally important to me. Any help in how to structure application much appreciated
The HMO licensing office will have records of all inspections they have carried out, this will give you details on use.Have bought a 10 bed that was previously owned by the University and let to students, I have original documentation from uni showing change of use to annexe to halls of residence and floor plans from the 80's. No change from this point on from planning.
Council accept building is an hmo but recently rejected my application on the grounds its unclear how many rooms existing use covers. Saying unclear whether it was C4 or Sui Generis in the first place - although i assume 'annexe to halls of residence' is sui generic
How can i go about proving existing use?
I have:
sporadic ASTs over 10 year period
affidavit from a previous tenant
council tax bills for bedsits although doesn't say how many rooms
floor plan from enivorment dept showing 11 rooms
some docs from uni of exe
I was thinking to write to council housing / planning / environment depts separately to obtain evidence.
Certificate is vitally important to me. Any help in how to structure application much appreciated
The council tax office should have records of whos lived there, this should give you number of people at the property over the years.
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