Full Building Survey - legal comeback if issues missed?

[g3org3y]

I'm looking to buy a house, offer accepted and mortgage approved.

It's a reasonably old house (>200 y/o) so I've decided it would be prudent to proceed with a full structural/building survey to identify any potential issues.

I don't mind spending the money if I can be secure in the knowledge that any issues (within reason) can be identified.

Should a survey miss an issue (of reasonable significance) which reveals itself after moving into the house is there legal comeback? Or, is the survey so full of disclaimers it's not worth the paper it's printed on?

Appreciate any opinions/experiences.

TIA

[paolow]

I'm not an expert by any means but my understanding is that they are so full of caveats and waivers that it would'nt help with what you are suggesting.
Think of a document full of may contain, signs of, cant inspect because, houses of this type often etc etc.
I'm not saying don't bother - but also don't rely on it as a form of insurance in case something subsequently turns out to be worse than thought.

[Murph7355]

Generally they'll be full of disclaimers, but you should be OK with anything obvious missed. Of course if you get a good surveyor, that won't happen.

Make sure you choose a surveyor with experience of houses the age of the one you're looking at. Building techniques and materials have moved on, and the inherent problems are therefore different.

[D_G]

Total waste of time and money. I'd pay a local builder to look round the place, I got a builder mate to look round the current house.

[numtumfutunch]

g3org3y said:

Should a survey miss an issue (of reasonable significance) which reveals itself after moving into the house is there legal comeback? Or, is the survey so full of disclaimers it's not worth the paper it's printed on?

Appreciate any opinions/experiences.

TIA

I have had this from both sides of the fence

As the vendor of a 150y old terraced house to a couple of wet 20-somethings the homebuyers they had commissioned was utterly frustrating. There were so many ifs, buts and maybes that they almost pulled out of the sale. The house was fine and as we only moved a mile saw them frequently around town and remained on good terms.

We had a homebuyers of our own on the place we bought that time which missed the fact that the second bathroom had no hot water - the system was gravity fed and the tank was in the loft space next door - and flagged damp all over the sodding place but not where there was a leaking pipe under the kitchen floor which became apparent soon after we moved in and lifted the carpet.

On buying our current gaff we paid for a full structural which was just so full of guarded crap and defensive language so as to be unusable.

The next time I buy a house, hopefully not ever, I will pay for a homebuyers and then take a tame builder round for an agreed fee to give me some pragmatic advice over and above what my own common sense tells me.

Cheers

[Mandat]

D_G said:

Total waste of time and money. I'd pay a local builder to look round the place, I got a builder mate to look round the current house.

Does your builder mate have Professional Indemnity Insurance, as in reality that is what you are paying for when instructing a Surveyor or other professional advisor.

[V8RX7]

The Builders and people who have seen such surveys will say they are useless / worthless.

The Surveyers say differently.

If you can take an experienced Builder / Surveyer around for 30mins and talk to them - rather than getting them to write it down, it could be the best £100 you spend.

[Sir Bagalot]

Last Survey I had done highlighted some work. I knocked the price of that work off my offer.

Mate had a survey done that missed a roof defect. He discovered the roof defect during a day of heavy rain. £2.5K worth of repairs needed. The Surveyor paid.

Last place I bought I just had a good look around although I did know the house.

[g3org3y]

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Much as I thought. Unfortunately don't have any builder mates, so will have to rely on the survey. I'm unfortunately ignorant in such matters so I'll have to trust them.

[Issi]

If you were to buy a second hand £50,000.00 Ferrari, would you ask a specialist super car mechanic to look over it, or would you trust Reg who lives around the corner from your mum, and used to fix the bin wagons for the Council?

People expect that the surveyor that they're paying a few hundred pounds for will -

Lift all the carpets
Remove wall units in kitchens and check behind (don't laugh - this was mentioned in a previous thread about how poor surveyors)
Carry out full drainage inspections.
Carry out full electrical inspections.
Check every single roof tile for cracks.
Check every linear millimeter of timbers in the attic space.
Hack off render to check lintels (again this was mentioned in a previous thread about a surveyor who didn't mention a cracked lintel hidden behind render).

With that in mind I'm sure that your local bricklayer will have more knowledge than your local Chartered Surveyor.

[V8RX7]

Issi said:

If you were to buy a second hand £50,000.00 Ferrari, would you ask a specialist super car mechanic to look over it, or would you trust Reg who lives around the corner from your mum, and used to fix the bin wagons for the Council?

Would you ask a time served Ferrari mechanic or take it to the Main Dealer who has never actually got his hands dirty.

is perhaps a more apt comparison

[Issi]

Fair enough comment but if I wanted a wall building I'd ask a builder.

If I was thinking of spending £100k on a house, I'd ask a Building Surveyor to carry out a survey.

[V8RX7]

Issi said:

Fair enough comment but if I wanted a wall building I'd ask a builder.

If I was thinking of spending £100k on a house, I'd ask a Building Surveyor to carry out a survey.

To put it into context I have a Building Degree and am (loosely) a builder my brother was a Surveyor my sister a Property Solicitor so I'd like to think my opinions are relevant.

Whilst I'm sure there are competent surveyors their reports are so full of exclusions to be generally worthless - this is true of most "professionals" IME.

I inquired with Accountants regarding Tax Liability on a specific point asking how much it would cost to write a letter with their view that I could sue on if it was later found to be wrong - not one would agree to that - why would I pay for advice I couldn't rely on ?

[TorqueVR]

I don't know why I read these posts on the HG&D thread - they are all the same, chartered surveyors know sod all and builders (who left school at 16, have never written a report in their lives, have never even heard of building pathology and have no PI cover) know all there is to know.

I suggest you look at this :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631346/Go...
This is the work of a smart arse builder and/or house-owner. It took me only a few second browsing through the photos to see what the silly sods did wrong, but then what would I know, I'm a surveyor?

[BoRED S2upid]

D_G said:

Total waste of time and money. I'd pay a local builder to look round the place, I got a builder mate to look round the current house.

Don't some lenders require it? He may have no choice.

I agree with others though they are generally worded so that if a wall falls down they couldn't have possibly known. A good solicitor will point out anything they may pick up that could be an issue.

[8-P]

The more houses you buy and or do up, the sharper you are. IF I bought another place now, Id want to inspect it myself with a surveyor in tow. All sorts got missed off ours, later on for example we found the underfloor heating doesnt work, funny they forgot to mention that. Lots of other things Ive had to steam roll over with my cash roller. Not ideal.

Its a bit of a lottery and really depends on how well the previous owners have maintained the place over the years.

[g3org3y]

Thanks again for your replies, mixed opinions it seems!

I'm not a house expert, that's what I'm paying these chaps for.

I know one can't predict the future, but I would like to be secure in the knowledge that the 'major' things have been checked, signed off as ok and I don't need to worry about them. I'd also like to believe that should issues arise (that should have reasonably been picked up by a competent surveyor) the surveying company who signed it off would shoulder some responsibility.

Sir Bagalot said:

Mate had a survey done that missed a roof defect. He discovered the roof defect during a day of heavy rain. £2.5K worth of repairs needed. The Surveyor paid.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

BoRED S2upid said:

I agree with others though they are generally worded so that if a wall falls down they couldn't have possibly known. A good solicitor will point out anything they may pick up that could be an issue.

Worth getting the solicitor to read through the survey report then?

[Grandad Gaz]

TorqueVR said:

I suggest you look at this :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631346/Go...
This is the work of a smart arse builder and/or house-owner. It took me only a few second browsing through the photos to see what the silly sods did wrong, but then what would I know, I'm a surveyor?

I'm guessing it's because they cut out all the upstairs ceiling joists, but what do I know, I'm not a surveyor

[TorqueVR]

Grandad Gaz said:

I'm guessing it's because they cut out all the upstairs ceiling joists, but what do I know, I'm not a surveyor

You seem more than qualified to advise the OP on his house purchase!

[silverthorn2151]

Of course you should have a survey carried out and that should be by a chartered Building Surveyor.

Of course there will be some caveats in the report. Why wouldn't there be?

Of course you will have the opportunity to rely upon the report and the surveyor owes a duty of care not to be negligent. The RICS requires him to be insured for professional indemnity.

Of course you can ALWAYS find something that isn't mentioned in a report. They are not and should never be regarded as a catalogue of minor defects.

Of course there are some circumstances where further checks, tests or investigations are recommended. Why wouldn't there be?

Of course some people would have you believe that taking an uninsured unqualified local builder to look at a place you will be paying for over the next 25 years is all that's needed.

But then, I'm a Chartered Building Surveyor with 39 years experience and I know what I'm talking about.

The same trite critisisms are trotted out on the weekly thread about 'should I have a survey'.

Your question was whether you have a legal comeback. Of course you do, but not if a kitchen drawer is sticking.