Health insurance

[13m]

Our family health insurance is due for renewal imminently. We're with Vitality Health, who have been abysmal.

I have looked at comparison sites and we are paying more than most other providers would charge - without a detailed application obviously. However, obviously price is not the most important factor.

Is there anyone here with experience of that sector who can give me some pointers please? Otherwise it's going to have to be a day on the phone calling the big name insurers.

[Jockman]

Couple of good tips here...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[dalenorth]

You're not the only person to say that about vitality. We don't advise on health but we do have a decent broker in group so pm me if you want there details?

[Ozzie Osmond]

13m said:

we are paying more than most other providers would charge

I'd be interested to know what you're being asked to pay and at what age.

[13m]

Ozzie Osmond said:

13m said:

we are paying more than most other providers would charge

I'd be interested to know what you're being asked to pay and at what age.

One early 50s, one mid 40s, two kids about 10. £1100pa with 55% NCB

[Ozzie Osmond]

Interesting. My own feeling is that once they ask for a premium of more than a few hundred pounds a year you might as well stick the premium in a jar on the mantelpiece rather than spending it with the insurer. You might want to have some additional savings or at least the comfort of knowing your credit record is good in order to back that up.

One of my gripes about health insurance is that the providers take such a fat slice to cover their administration costs, marketing expenses and profit. There's also often an "excess" which lands small claims and a slice of any large claim back in your lap. And then you find they won't cover chronic conditions and put a cap on the maximum amount they will pay out.

There's some scope for "shopping around" in private healthcare if you decide to DIY it. For instance, an MRI scan at a fancy private clinic might be £600 whereas a specialist scanning centre will often do the same thing for £150 if you book an "off peak" slot.

[13m]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Interesting. My own feeling is that once they ask for a premium of more than a few hundred pounds a year you might as well stick the premium in a jar on the mantelpiece rather than spending it with the insurer. You might want to have some additional savings or at least the comfort of knowing your credit record is good in order to back that up.

One of my gripes about health insurance is that the providers take such a fat slice to cover their administration costs, marketing expenses and profit. There's also often an "excess" which lands small claims and a slice of any large claim back in your lap. And then you find they won't cover chronic conditions and put a cap on the maximum amount they will pay out.

There's some scope for "shopping around" in private healthcare if you decide to DIY it. For instance, an MRI scan at a fancy private clinic might be £600 whereas a specialist scanning centre will often do the same thing for £150 if you book an "off peak" slot.

Interesting.

I suppose we have it for serious conditions. But as you point out we have thus far been unable to claim for most stuff. I had a hernia last year and I think I ended up paying half. As well as, that is, finding a consultant FOR vitality and then helping the consultant complete the necessary forms to become approved, even though he was registered until Vitality changed its name.

We could afford to self insure unless it was for something like cancer treatment,

[anonymous-user]

13m said:

We could afford to self insure unless it was for something like cancer treatment,

If you look at your policy docs it is very likely that your policy will have limited cover for cancer and all the treatment will be NHS.

When you are actually, properly ill in most cases the treatment will be provided in the NHS, with some queue jumping done by dint of the fact that you have private coverage.

I certainly know my father paid for his own Private cancer treatment, despite him being insured to the hilt.

However - as you have kids the 1100 quid may be worth it for piece of mind knowing that at the very least you can secure expedited NHS treatment from your private consultant.

[Ozzie Osmond]

It's the sums that bother me. Lets say the family insures until the kids leave uni at age 21. During that time the parents will get older and so the overall premium might roughly double.

11 years at an average premium of £1,650 = £18,150 but that's with 55% NCB and assumes no claims are made. As with car insurance the effect of a claim is typically to both reduce the discount AND increase the premium. Worse still, if someone's really unwell you might no longer be able to afford the cost of the annual premiums for future years.

So just pulling a figure from the air let's call it a total premium cost of around £25,000. You can buy a lot of back-up to the NHS for that sort of money.

To my mind it all comes down to having some sort of plan along the lines, "How would we cope if we were suddenly hit with a bill for £10,000?". If the answer is, "We couldn't", then it seems sensible to pay the insurance premium.

[The Leaper]

Interesting to see people's experiences with private healthcare.

Wife and I are covered under a BUPA arrangement. In the past 10 years she has had 3 full hip ops, all entirely in private hospitals, all fees etc about £15000 a time. Only amounts she has paid are the first £150 as an out patient each time. Superb service from BUPA every time.

No quibbles here.

R.

[Ozzie Osmond]

The Leaper said:

Wife and I are covered under a BUPA arrangement. In the past 10 years she has had 3 full hip ops, all entirely in private hospitals, all fees etc about £15000 a time. Only amounts she has paid are the first £150 as an out patient each time. Superb service from BUPA every time.

Do you pay your own premiums or is this cover provided under an employer's Group Scheme?

[Sheepshanks]

The Leaper said:

Only amounts she has paid are the first £150 as an out patient each time. Superb service from BUPA every time.

We had hassle with low out-patient limit with BUPA. My missus had a fully authorised (unusually for BUPA, it was in writing) in-patient procedure but the hospital decided on the day she didn't need to stay in.

You'd think BUPA would be happy as it saved them money. Their way of expressing that happiness was to only pay as an out-patient claim so it blew through the out-patient limit. They were very hard-faced about it too.

[13m]

Having phoned Aviva was very pricy and had a lot of exclusions. BUPA's top level of cover is about 1.5 x my current premium, assuming I increase my excess to £2k from £250.

BUPA has gone away to do full medical underwriting. Assuming they don't come back with any daft exclusions I think I will move to them.

[Beetnik]

Here are my sums:
12 years BUPA premiums (2 adults, 3 kids) = £28,000
1 claim in 12 years of cover = £12,000
Net cost (for peace of mind?) = £16,000

Never really did the sums until we claimed (and discovered had we not been in BUPA they would have discounted to £9,500). Then decided to 'self-insure'.

18 years BUPA premiums saved and banked = £43,000, say £50,000 allowing for a bit of interest and rise in premiums along the way.

Hopefully not needed but it would pay for a fair bit of care.

[rog007]

Those paying for their own private health insurance (as opposed to those who's company pay) is in long term decline.

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/media/c...

The introduction of the NHS Constitution has for many negated the need for that private health cover (choice of provider and 18-week maximum wait for treatment pledge).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs...

[13m]

rog007 said:

Those paying for their own private health insurance (as opposed to those who's company pay) is in long term decline.

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/media/c...

The introduction of the NHS Constitution has for many negated the need for that private health cover (choice of provider and 18-week maximum wait for treatment pledge).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs...

18 weeks? If I have something wrong with me 18 hours is too long!

When I had a hernia last year I went from diagnosis to surgery in 10 days. Granted I did a lot of the leg work to find a decent available surgeon, but nonetheless it was sorted quite quickly.

[mph1977]

desolate said:

13m said:

We could afford to self insure unless it was for something like cancer treatment,

If you look at your policy docs it is very likely that your policy will have limited cover for cancer and all the treatment will be NHS.

When you are actually, properly ill in most cases the treatment will be provided in the NHS, with some queue jumping done by dint of the fact that you have private coverage.

I certainly know my father paid for his own Private cancer treatment, despite him being insured to the hilt.

However - as you have kids the 1100 quid may be worth it for piece of mind knowing that at the very least you can secure expedited NHS treatment from your private consultant.

you cannot expedite NHS treatment by seeing anyone privately , if you opt to be treated o nthe nHS your referral will be placed in the queue as if it were an NHS referral

the old trick of queue jumping to see the consultant privately has been removed

the NHS is also increasingly keen on using the 'all or nothing' rule with peopel who try to jump queues


the simple fact is private health insurance in the UK is of extremely limited utility

if you want to queue jump within the NHS it doesn't work like that any more

if you are genuinely life threateningly ill it doesn't cover you

If you have a condition or injury which is likely to require prolonged rehab as an inpatient you aren;t covered / there is no provider

Amenity rooms are a thing of the past i nthe NHS as in new builds 50% of room s are ensuite singles anyway and in the older estate single rooms are reserved for clinical need.

[Ean218]

mph1977 said:

you cannot expedite NHS treatment by seeing anyone privately , if you opt to be treated o nthe nHS your referral will be placed in the queue as if it were an NHS referral

the old trick of queue jumping to see the consultant privately has been removed

the NHS is also increasingly keen on using the 'all or nothing' rule with peopel who try to jump queues

Not our recent experience, the NHS may have rules, but consultants don't generally abide by rules, it's beneath them!

[bad company]

Ean218 said:

mph1977 said:

you cannot expedite NHS treatment by seeing anyone privately , if you opt to be treated o nthe nHS your referral will be placed in the queue as if it were an NHS referral

the old trick of queue jumping to see the consultant privately has been removed

the NHS is also increasingly keen on using the 'all or nothing' rule with peopel who try to jump queues

Not our recent experience, the NHS may have rules, but consultants don't generally abide by rules, it's beneath them!

Yep, that was what I did just last year.

[mph1977]

bad company said:

Ean218 said:

mph1977 said:

you cannot expedite NHS treatment by seeing anyone privately , if you opt to be treated o nthe nHS your referral will be placed in the queue as if it were an NHS referral

the old trick of queue jumping to see the consultant privately has been removed

the NHS is also increasingly keen on using the 'all or nothing' rule with peopel who try to jump queues

Not our recent experience, the NHS may have rules, but consultants don't generally abide by rules, it's beneath them!

Yep, that was what I did just last year.

so you got listed for your NHS procedure based on when you saw the consultant not when the referral was made ?