Towing Licence?

[Blowfish]

I was thinking of getting a decent caravan this year for weekends away with the family. Only after looking at a few and getting some dealer advice I realise unless I change my car and get a really small light caravan I need to do another test to tow anything half decent!
Very annoying and don't suppose there is any easy way around this? Has anyone here done this additional test and if so how hard is it?
Or alternatively what the best car/van combo I can have on my standard licence?

[chasingracecars]

This was covered a lot on the forum if you search for B+E .

The test I did wasn't too bad, Most HGV companies run them now so they can be done in just a few days. You have to do a reverse manoeuvre which is good practice and then you basically do your road test again but with a trailer.

Budget around £600, it will help a lot with what caravan you can obtain.

[Rosscow]

Yep, between £600 and £700.

It's not too bad, I passed first time although had a few minor faults. Road positioning and keeping speed up are important.

I wouldn't bother trying to find a small van and light tow car if you're a family.

[R0G]

B licence example

Skoda Octavia 4x4
GVW about 2000kg

4 berth caravan
MTPLM 1500

[Cfnteabag]

I don't know why they make it so complicated, it should be if you want to tow, do B+E. If you don't known what you are doing when you tow then it has the potential to go very wrong very quickly

[R0G]

Cfnteabag said:

I don't know why they make it so complicated, it should be if you want to tow, do B+E. If you don't known what you are doing when you tow then it has the potential to go very wrong very quickly

Are you saying that all of us who got the free B+E pre 1997 are unsafe when towing ?

[chasingracecars]

Cfnteabag said:

I don't know why they make it so complicated, it should be if you want to tow, do B+E. If you don't known what you are doing when you tow then it has the potential to go very wrong very quickly

I agree!!

Why don't they make a statement that you are allowed to tow a small trailer no higher then 1.5m and no heavier then 500Kg.

Allow tips runs basically.

I did the B+E and think it was a great idea as I actually learnt how to tow! It may look simple on the face of it but there are a number of things to be aware of.

The reversing lessons are worth it alone!! Was able to parallel park a pickup and box trailer in a space 1.5x the length. I have never seen it tried in real life but then i never use pythagorus
theory.

My advise do the test, you will get the bug caravanning and will want to upgrade eventually. Light vans with a good layout will have inferior trim levels as well.

[R0G]

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.

GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight when fully loaded.

The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.

Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions.

GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.

The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.

The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.

The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.

For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)

EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg

Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg

For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.

For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.

Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving


The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&fea... - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.ht... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&fea... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-dri...

Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

[Cfnteabag]

R0G said:

Are you saying that all of us who got the free B+E pre 1997 are unsafe when towing ?

No I am not but I think that people have different attitudes now and are more likely to play lip service to proper checks and maintenance coulpled with there being less chance of being spotted by a copper if there was obviously something amiss.

When they changed the law they should have made either no towing without the license or as has been pointed out, small unbraked trailers are fine rather than trying to work out how to tow the heavest trailer with the lightest car to keep under 3500kgs

[R0G]

Cfnteabag said:

When they changed the law they should have made either no towing without the license or as has been pointed out, small unbraked trailers are fine rather than trying to work out how to tow the heavest trailer with the lightest car to keep under 3500kgs

That is EU law so the UK at the moment has no say in those laws

[Output Flange]

Blowfish said:

Has anyone here done this additional test and if so how hard is it?

I did it a couple of years ago. I'd never towed before, so took 2 days of tuition prior to the test to get used to pulling a trailer, plus you need to practice the reversing manoeuvre and know the correct way to hitch/un-hitch the trailer.

It's not particularly difficult overall. The hardest part is to go back to driving as you need to on a test - no "I'll just nip through that gap" etc.

[caelite]

R0G said:

Cfnteabag said:

When they changed the law they should have made either no towing without the license or as has been pointed out, small unbraked trailers are fine rather than trying to work out how to tow the heavest trailer with the lightest car to keep under 3500kgs

That is EU law so the UK at the moment has no say in those laws

Personally I think the whole licence system needs a revamp. The 3.5ton GVW (and inheirant 7ton GTW) limits are a bit archaic, especially considering most 'B class' chassis vans can easy handle 5ton GVWs and 8ton GTWs nowadays with the only modification being a different plate from the factory. Although I can imagine VOSA makes a pretty penny from all the 4ton transit tippers out there. Driving a 2 ton car is far more similar to driving a 5 ton van than driving a 2 ton car with a 1 ton trailer. The fact that the licences don't reflect this is silly.

Won't even touch on the broken mess that is the 3DLD motorcycle licence scheme and HGV driver CPCs.

[BlueMeganeII]

caelite said:

Personally I think the whole licence system needs a revamp. The 3.5ton GVW (and inheirant 7ton GTW) limits are a bit archaic, especially considering most 'B class' chassis vans can easy handle 5ton GVWs and 8ton GTWs nowadays with the only modification being a different plate from the factory. Although I can imagine VOSA makes a pretty penny from all the 4ton transit tippers out there. Driving a 2 ton car is far more similar to driving a 5 ton van than driving a 2 ton car with a 1 ton trailer. The fact that the licences don't reflect this is silly.

Won't even touch on the broken mess that is the 3DLD motorcycle licence scheme and HGV driver CPCs.

Wasn't much of this done to bring our licensing in-line with much of Europe? I do agree, it is a mess.