Is California Superbike School UK worth it?
Discussion
Hi everyone
I am based in Switzerland.
I ride (purely 600/1000 supersports) since 3 years and took some local courses (like a leaning course), and I ride lots of Swiss Alps.
I've heard a lot about CSS (I have The book, of course) so I have checked the one in UK.
I want to come to UK for a little holiday together with my gf and I thought of taking some levels at CSS.
Of course, for me the problem is that I have to rent a bike (300 quid), pay insurance (85), rent a suit (40), so the price for one session quickly goes up from ~450 to 900 quid. That's quite a lot of cash for a one day course.
Anyone here done CSS, in particular those of you who already had a fair amount of biking experience?
Is it worth it?
I am based in Switzerland.
I ride (purely 600/1000 supersports) since 3 years and took some local courses (like a leaning course), and I ride lots of Swiss Alps.
I've heard a lot about CSS (I have The book, of course) so I have checked the one in UK.
I want to come to UK for a little holiday together with my gf and I thought of taking some levels at CSS.
Of course, for me the problem is that I have to rent a bike (300 quid), pay insurance (85), rent a suit (40), so the price for one session quickly goes up from ~450 to 900 quid. That's quite a lot of cash for a one day course.
Anyone here done CSS, in particular those of you who already had a fair amount of biking experience?
Is it worth it?
Not done it but heard good things about so like yourself, would be interested in hearing from people who have used it.
edited :
Are you wanting to learn for track or to improve road riding? You live near the alps, after having rode them, I cant imagine wanting to track it after doing some of the mountain passes there! (julierpass / grimselpass etc)
edited :
Are you wanting to learn for track or to improve road riding? You live near the alps, after having rode them, I cant imagine wanting to track it after doing some of the mountain passes there! (julierpass / grimselpass etc)
Edited by STe_rsv4 on Wednesday 15th February 12:15
I did CSS level 1 in September and I am booked to do level 2 in May and level 3 in September. As a commuter who still lacked cornering confidence I really rate it. It's a very controlled environment and set lessons which you practice build you up through the day. The circuit they use is not overly long but has a good mix of corners and all the staff and instructors are extremely friendly and helpful.
Hiring their bikes does up the cost of the day, I hired an 899 to do level one but I am looking to use my own bike for level 2 & 3 this year.
I have not tried any other motorbike school so I have nothing to compare it to, but I really rate it.
Hiring their bikes does up the cost of the day, I hired an 899 to do level one but I am looking to use my own bike for level 2 & 3 this year.
I have not tried any other motorbike school so I have nothing to compare it to, but I really rate it.
Bought CSS level 1 for my Girlfriend as she is planning to race this year but hasn't got a lot of experience and needs to build confidence.
Her Dad who has raced for nigh on 20 years has done CSS and the Ron Haslam day and rated CSS as being much better (I haven't dug to find out better how/why) but he felt he learned more.
It all looks very good but depending on experience I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. In comparison for your £900 say, you could book 6-9 UK trackdays and use the free instruction at every one... I'm not sure what you would learn more or enjoy more but I know I'd lean towards more track time for my money.
Her Dad who has raced for nigh on 20 years has done CSS and the Ron Haslam day and rated CSS as being much better (I haven't dug to find out better how/why) but he felt he learned more.
It all looks very good but depending on experience I'm not sure if it's worth it or not. In comparison for your £900 say, you could book 6-9 UK trackdays and use the free instruction at every one... I'm not sure what you would learn more or enjoy more but I know I'd lean towards more track time for my money.
Dakkon said:
I did CSS level 1 in September and I am booked to do level 2 in May and level 3 in September. As a commuter who still lacked cornering confidence I really rate it.
Hi Paul,I've done three days at CSS and really rate it too. However, I found that Level 1 was valuable for road and track, but after that it was 'only' useful for the track.
From personal experience, I'd highly recommend doing CSS Level 1 and 1-2 days with Rapid Training
Rapid's the best course I've done for increased skills to be faster and safer on the road. Brilliant instructors, confidence building and brilliant fun 
Edited by SVS on Wednesday 15th February 13:27
Ok... I have done Level 1 and 2
Many of the concepts of the California Superbike School are brilliant for new riders and I would recommend them to new riders. If you have some experience of biking and also are already a fairly decent track rider then I would say its not actually worth it. You would be better off getting track instruction or training with the motoVudu lot.
CSS - Overall I don't think its actually worth the money.
There I said it.
Many of the concepts of the California Superbike School are brilliant for new riders and I would recommend them to new riders. If you have some experience of biking and also are already a fairly decent track rider then I would say its not actually worth it. You would be better off getting track instruction or training with the motoVudu lot.
CSS - Overall I don't think its actually worth the money.
There I said it.
I went through CSS levels 1-4 last year and then did 4 again over xmas in Spain with them at Almeria (4 is customisable, so can be done as many times as you see fit)
As you have to do level 1 to do level 2, and 2 to do 3 etc, you do need to start at the bottom and work your way up before you really start to drill into the intricacies of riding. However, I've seen some genuinely decent riders pick up bits in level 1 that you would assume they'd know, and you'd then use those level one principles to work on level 2 and so forth.
Whilst they're ran on a race circuit, the earlier stages are really geared towards faster road riding and most of the people you see go through the school are exactly that. However, the later stages start to work more on track based stuff, which for me, really helped to bring my riding on in leaps and bounds.
I don't think there's anything you could learn in levels 3-4 that wouldn't benefit road riding either as largely anything you learn on a track can be applied to fast road riding, although I wouldn't say that works the other way around?
The main thing I've seen with riders that don't feel like they've got anything out of CSS, is that they treat it like a track day, and it really is a school day, so if you try and ride at something approaching 100% of your ability, you won't be picking up the drills they're working on and the day largely becomes a waste. They're good at reminding people to ride at something more like 60-70% their fastest and concentrate on what they're learning, but some people just want to blast around and just try to get their knee down etc, and they're the ones that carry doing what they've always done, so don't make improvements.
I'm a big fan of the CSS way, and for me, it worked well. However, there's still other alternatives like the Ron Haslam days (or rather half days as they are) or lots of individuals who will do 1:1 work at a track day. Gary Walton is very good, and I recently did a day with Simon Crafer, who was also exceptionally good.
The price of the CSS days are cheaper than if you wanted to do a 1:1 day with Gary or Simon, as once you've factored in Hiring a bike for the day through someone like smallboy at around £250, and then add the actual cost of your coaching to paying for yours and their trackday, you're looking at best part of £1200, and that's if you can find a trackday that does leather hire.
With CSS, you get the modules in manageable chunks, and it takes a bit of going away to practice between each module, so I wouldn't recommend doing CSS levels 1-4 on 4 consecutive days, and rather breaking it into chunks. At most 2 levels on 2 days would be the most I think that you'd actually get anything from, and I don't think they actually do more than 2 days in any bookable event anyway. Possibly for that very reason.
This is just my tuppence worth, but hope it helps ?
As you have to do level 1 to do level 2, and 2 to do 3 etc, you do need to start at the bottom and work your way up before you really start to drill into the intricacies of riding. However, I've seen some genuinely decent riders pick up bits in level 1 that you would assume they'd know, and you'd then use those level one principles to work on level 2 and so forth.
Whilst they're ran on a race circuit, the earlier stages are really geared towards faster road riding and most of the people you see go through the school are exactly that. However, the later stages start to work more on track based stuff, which for me, really helped to bring my riding on in leaps and bounds.
I don't think there's anything you could learn in levels 3-4 that wouldn't benefit road riding either as largely anything you learn on a track can be applied to fast road riding, although I wouldn't say that works the other way around?
The main thing I've seen with riders that don't feel like they've got anything out of CSS, is that they treat it like a track day, and it really is a school day, so if you try and ride at something approaching 100% of your ability, you won't be picking up the drills they're working on and the day largely becomes a waste. They're good at reminding people to ride at something more like 60-70% their fastest and concentrate on what they're learning, but some people just want to blast around and just try to get their knee down etc, and they're the ones that carry doing what they've always done, so don't make improvements.
I'm a big fan of the CSS way, and for me, it worked well. However, there's still other alternatives like the Ron Haslam days (or rather half days as they are) or lots of individuals who will do 1:1 work at a track day. Gary Walton is very good, and I recently did a day with Simon Crafer, who was also exceptionally good.
The price of the CSS days are cheaper than if you wanted to do a 1:1 day with Gary or Simon, as once you've factored in Hiring a bike for the day through someone like smallboy at around £250, and then add the actual cost of your coaching to paying for yours and their trackday, you're looking at best part of £1200, and that's if you can find a trackday that does leather hire.
With CSS, you get the modules in manageable chunks, and it takes a bit of going away to practice between each module, so I wouldn't recommend doing CSS levels 1-4 on 4 consecutive days, and rather breaking it into chunks. At most 2 levels on 2 days would be the most I think that you'd actually get anything from, and I don't think they actually do more than 2 days in any bookable event anyway. Possibly for that very reason.
This is just my tuppence worth, but hope it helps ?
I'm booked onto level 1 in June, I figured it was the first time I'm going on track with a bike so start with the right approach and crack on from there with some track days afterwards. I took the same approach with golf and can keep up with the guys who've been playing for far longer but never had a proper couple of days tuition. Figure it might work with riding too! Will update later this year 
RemaL said:
I asked this ages ago and the reply was for the price of 3-5 track days do them and use the instructors.
Which I did and never looked back.
The difference between track day instructors, and I'm not saying this is the same for all track day instructors, is that they're largely there to show you the lines on the track you're on. CSS, James Whittham days or Ron Haslam race school, on the other hand, don't show you much in the way of lines for that particular track, but base their training on how you ride the bike which you can then take to any other track or apply on the road.Which I did and never looked back.
foxsasha said:
I did level one. Very poor value for money in my mind unless you want to progress to 2+ in which case you have no choice but to do it. I would not, for a second, consider coming from Switzerland to the UK and hire all gear to do level 1.
I think I agree with you.I've thought about it and I do not feel the price I have to pay to do level 1.
I need to go on track, so I will be looking for some track courses instead, and closer to home.
Ho Lee Kau said:
RemaL said:
I asked this ages ago and the reply was for the price of 3-5 track days do them and use the instructors.
Which I did and never looked back.
You mean go on track with instructors for 3 days?Which I did and never looked back.
Exactly what I am thinking.
Ok as above they may only show you the lines to be on but it make a hell if difference
I think it also depends on your current ability. I did a no limits track day and paid about 110 pounds for one of their instructors for the day. I would do it again for sure as the level i was at at the time, having an experienced rider following yuo and pointing out some of the more basic mistakes was useful. If you are already advanced at track riding then I can see the possible benefit of some of the other race schools.
Though I think more time spent riding on track is the only real way of improving.
Though I think more time spent riding on track is the only real way of improving.
I did Level 1 some years ago at Caldwell, I'm guessing it would be 2000/1. I'd just got a new R1 & the CSS had some affiliation to Yamaha back then so the cost was subsidised (£99 if I remember).
The day itself was not what I was expecting but I enjoyed it. There was a mixture of classroom stuff then drills on the track. I seem to remember I used 3rd gear & no brakes all day. The emphasis was all about the corners. There was a lot of talk about looking through the bend, think this was called "2-step" & involved an X being taped onto the side of your helmet, the instructor wanted to see the X clearly so he knew you were looking where you'd exit. Aggressive counter steering drills also featured heavily as were avoiding "survival reactions"?? & target fixation.
I found the whole thing quite informative, I was already doing most of the skills anyway but the day reinforced why I was doing them & the theory behind it.
The 3rd gear/no brakes thing was quite funny for a couple of guys there as they both had Norton F1's. Apparently a characteristic of these machines is that a closed throttle resulted in zero engine braking & the things to pick up speed so a dab of brake was allowed here!
The day itself was not what I was expecting but I enjoyed it. There was a mixture of classroom stuff then drills on the track. I seem to remember I used 3rd gear & no brakes all day. The emphasis was all about the corners. There was a lot of talk about looking through the bend, think this was called "2-step" & involved an X being taped onto the side of your helmet, the instructor wanted to see the X clearly so he knew you were looking where you'd exit. Aggressive counter steering drills also featured heavily as were avoiding "survival reactions"?? & target fixation.
I found the whole thing quite informative, I was already doing most of the skills anyway but the day reinforced why I was doing them & the theory behind it.
The 3rd gear/no brakes thing was quite funny for a couple of guys there as they both had Norton F1's. Apparently a characteristic of these machines is that a closed throttle resulted in zero engine braking & the things to pick up speed so a dab of brake was allowed here!
I've done the stage 1 course and LLR course (Look Lean and Roll) done via TVAM (Thames Valley Advance Motorist)
I found the LLR far cheaper and a longer day, Also had better and more instructors who were more helpful. I think it's a case where people have head of the California super bike course more than a Look Lean and Roll course.
Maybe better to do the California super bike course from Stage 2?
I found the LLR far cheaper and a longer day, Also had better and more instructors who were more helpful. I think it's a case where people have head of the California super bike course more than a Look Lean and Roll course.
Maybe better to do the California super bike course from Stage 2?
Bomberharris said:
I've done the stage 1 course and LLR course (Look Lean and Roll) done via TVAM (Thames Valley Advance Motorist)
I found the LLR far cheaper and a longer day, Also had better and more instructors who were more helpful. I think it's a case where people have head of the California super bike course more than a Look Lean and Roll course.
Maybe better to do the California super bike course from Stage 2?
A nice idea, but you have to do level 1 before you can do level 2 etc with CSSI found the LLR far cheaper and a longer day, Also had better and more instructors who were more helpful. I think it's a case where people have head of the California super bike course more than a Look Lean and Roll course.
Maybe better to do the California super bike course from Stage 2?
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