Taking a builder to small claims court?
Discussion
Anyone tried it and is it worth it?
I was recommended a builder by my architect (from on here unfortunately) and he was an incompetent cowboy. Now have someone decent on the job but have been left with a large bill to sort out the mess the other builder left.
The issues I would be disputing would not be cosmetic issues (although god knows there were enough of those) but things that have failed building regs; or a plumber/electrician has had to fix as they don't meet safety standards (plumbing was borderline dangerous).
I have before and after photos, invoices for all remedial work, evidence of payment to cowboy and lists of work apparently done (we exchanged an Excel file weekly to keep track of work v payment), and an email from Council building inspector confirming faults.
Sum involved is about £6,000 of a total job of £120k (I had paid £100k of this before he walked out realizing all his bodges would come home to roost so there was no more profit left). Actual cost to me was a lot more to get someone competent in to finish it off.
I would guess the cowboy lived fairly hand to mouth so probably couldn't find £6k easily, so that may be a factor too
I was recommended a builder by my architect (from on here unfortunately) and he was an incompetent cowboy. Now have someone decent on the job but have been left with a large bill to sort out the mess the other builder left.
The issues I would be disputing would not be cosmetic issues (although god knows there were enough of those) but things that have failed building regs; or a plumber/electrician has had to fix as they don't meet safety standards (plumbing was borderline dangerous).
I have before and after photos, invoices for all remedial work, evidence of payment to cowboy and lists of work apparently done (we exchanged an Excel file weekly to keep track of work v payment), and an email from Council building inspector confirming faults.
Sum involved is about £6,000 of a total job of £120k (I had paid £100k of this before he walked out realizing all his bodges would come home to roost so there was no more profit left). Actual cost to me was a lot more to get someone competent in to finish it off.
I would guess the cowboy lived fairly hand to mouth so probably couldn't find £6k easily, so that may be a factor too
Probably chalk it down to experience I'm afraid, going to court can be a long drawn out and expensive process, and if he doesn't have 6k what's the point?
Different if he lived in a mansion with a couple of Ferraris on the drive.
Whilst 6k is a lot of money, plenty have been stung for far more by cowboy tradesmen.
Different if he lived in a mansion with a couple of Ferraris on the drive.
Whilst 6k is a lot of money, plenty have been stung for far more by cowboy tradesmen.
Is he a Limited company or self employed?
Personally I would take it to small claims if clear cut, as a point of principle, get a CCJ on him and screw up his credit history, or bailiff fun if he doesn't pay.
Plus £6k is a lot of money and it sounds like it is unlikely that he may offer to pay some amount unless threatened.
Just depends if you want to spend the time on it and go through the hassle.
Personally I would take it to small claims if clear cut, as a point of principle, get a CCJ on him and screw up his credit history, or bailiff fun if he doesn't pay.
Plus £6k is a lot of money and it sounds like it is unlikely that he may offer to pay some amount unless threatened.
Just depends if you want to spend the time on it and go through the hassle.
Edited by hyphen on Monday 26th February 15:26
Invoice him for the remedial work.
If he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it he'll get a CCJ.
If he doesn't settle the CCJ the court will enforce the order with bailiffs.
I've gone down this route, didn't get a penny off the b
d but he's got a CCJ which hopefully gives him some problems in life.
Not an expensive or complicated process.
If he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it he'll get a CCJ.
If he doesn't settle the CCJ the court will enforce the order with bailiffs.
I've gone down this route, didn't get a penny off the b
d but he's got a CCJ which hopefully gives him some problems in life.Not an expensive or complicated process.
Wacky Racer said:
Probably chalk it down to experience I'm afraid, going to court can be a long drawn out and expensive process, and if he doesn't have 6k what's the point?
Different if he lived in a mansion with a couple of Ferraris on the drive.
Whilst 6k is a lot of money, plenty have been stung for far more by cowboy tradesmen.
This, probably. Different if he lived in a mansion with a couple of Ferraris on the drive.
Whilst 6k is a lot of money, plenty have been stung for far more by cowboy tradesmen.
Much easier to withhold payment and let him take you to court.
Even with the BCO's comments, he'll doubtless dispute your claims every step of the way, and that will be messy and long-winded.
B17NNS said:
Invoice him for the remedial work.
If he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it he'll get a CCJ.
If he doesn't settle the CCJ the court will enforce the order with bailiffs.
I've gone down this route, didn't get a penny off the bd but he's got a CCJ which hopefully gives him some problems in life.
Not an expensive or complicated process.
excellent advice thanks - I have mentally written off the money, but if I can cause him some grief (and maybe help to warn off others) it will make me feel better, if he pays it will be a bonusIf he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it he'll get a CCJ.
If he doesn't settle the CCJ the court will enforce the order with bailiffs.
I've gone down this route, didn't get a penny off the b
d but he's got a CCJ which hopefully gives him some problems in life.Not an expensive or complicated process.
I had a similar situation, although with rather bigger numbers, unfortunately. Builder wound up his Ltd co within weeks of 'finishing' our job, never to be heard from again. Was told by numerous legal types that it was not worth the effort to pursue him, as I was actually small fry on the list of creditors.
Imagine the hilarity when I later got a letter from the liquidators, trying to extract the final payment from me. I returned it unpaid with my own invoice for repairs and remedial works. Never heard from them again, strangely.
Best of luck....
Imagine the hilarity when I later got a letter from the liquidators, trying to extract the final payment from me. I returned it unpaid with my own invoice for repairs and remedial works. Never heard from them again, strangely.
Best of luck....
B17NNS said:
Invoice him for the remedial work.
If he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it, he'll get a CCJ
Fair play - the first couple of steps are easy enough to do that it's got to be worth a try.If he doesn't pay the invoice do a money claim online.
If he doesn't defend it, he'll get a CCJ
It's if/when he defends that it all gets too much hassle to be worth it. And if you give up at that point, he might see it as enough of a sign of weakness that he'll come after you for the remaining money you've not paid him?
Equus said:
Fair play - the first couple of steps are easy enough to do that it's got to be worth a try.
It's if/when he defends that it all gets too much hassle to be worth it. And if you give up at that point, he might see it as enough of a sign of weakness that he'll come after you for the remaining money you've not paid him?
For what though? If as the OP said, his work had failed building regs, then surely it is clear cut?It's if/when he defends that it all gets too much hassle to be worth it. And if you give up at that point, he might see it as enough of a sign of weakness that he'll come after you for the remaining money you've not paid him?
Equus said:
It's if/when he defends that it all gets too much hassle to be worth it. And if you give up at that point, he might see it as enough of a sign of weakness that he'll come after you for the remaining money you've not paid him?
I paid him for the work done, the £20k remaining was work in his quote which he didn't start onhyphen said:
For what though? If as the OP said, his work had failed building regs, then surely it is clear cut?
Not necessarily - what if it failed B.Regs because the Architect's drawings were unclear, or because unforeseen complications were encountered on site and tehre was dispute over how to address them or, worse still, if the client (OP) had given instructions to vary something from the approved drawings... I've had that, numerous times before.I'm not saying it's necessarily so in this case, but the Courts will always give benefit of the doubt and assume that there might be two sides in every story.
Adam B said:
Mr Pointy said:
Was the order & any payments to a limited company or the builder himself? it makes a difference.
Contract and their public liability insurance docs in the name of XXX builders, and payments to builders account not Ltd companyhyphen said:
Is he a Limited company or self employed?
Personally I would take it to small claims if clear cut, as a point of principle, get a CCJ on him and screw up his credit history, or bailiff fun if he doesn't pay.
Plus £6k is a lot of money and it sounds like it is unlikely that he may offer to pay some amount unless threatened.
Just depends if you want to spend the time on it and go through the hassle.
I did a bit of work for a new client, they liked the work but didn't pay. When I checked up on them they had 20+ CCJ's against them ... the OP's builder won't bat an eyelid re a CCJ imho.Personally I would take it to small claims if clear cut, as a point of principle, get a CCJ on him and screw up his credit history, or bailiff fun if he doesn't pay.
Plus £6k is a lot of money and it sounds like it is unlikely that he may offer to pay some amount unless threatened.
Just depends if you want to spend the time on it and go through the hassle.
Edited by hyphen on Monday 26th February 15:26
TX.
Pheo said:
We are embarking on a building project soon - is there anything you can do to try and avoid this kind of fiasco? Or is it just luck of the drawer?
First and foremost, get a proper contract in place - one that's appropriate to the scale of the project. The most basic is the JCT Homeowner contract, but you'd be surprised how many people don't even use that.Next to that, depending on the size of the job, get a professional to project manage it for you, to supervise/inspect ongoing work on site, and to sign off on the payments. But the cost of doing this is unpalatable to many people, and to be fair - unless you're very unlucky - it won't pay for itself on smaller projects.
Pheo said:
We are embarking on a building project soon - is there anything you can do to try and avoid this kind of fiasco? Or is it just luck of the drawer?
Closing my gate after my horse bolted, wandered into a road, went lame, got shot and is in dog food but....Agree in contract to keep back a snagging % - I held back 5% of payments back but was not disciplined in keeping to it early on so was continually playing catch up, do it from start when you typically have bigger cost weeks. At least I had held back £3k which part covered some of the cosmetic issues I had to sort out. If I had been disciplined it would have been £5k
Never pay a big deposit upfront, and agree to recover that over initial weeks - I was always valuing the work done each week/job to date vs total value I had paid and made sure payments weren't ahead
Don't take architect recommendations at face value, they usually get backhander from the builder they recommend
Go to see RECENT work by that builder
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