how come so many 991.2 GT3 for sale

[f1ten]

Im counting circa 65 new 991.2 GT3 for sale and about 9 new 991.2 Gt3 RS
How many UK delivered 991.2 GT3 were there? surely the owners cant all have moved into RS models ?

trying not to start another post about values here! Im genuinely interested why so many are back for sale with less than 1000-2000 miles?
certainly no problems with the mark 2 engine so guessing it is speculators trying to get out?

I believe it was something like 112 UK delivered 997GT3 mark 1 ... so basically there are 19 mark 1 for sale on here... 17% of the UK market.

Am I the only one who thinks the market is a bit flooded with GT3/ RS now?

[jh001ace]

+1

Speculators s£itting their pants!

[Cheib]

Combination of three or four things

- Market in general is pretty soft
- They made a lot more 991 GT3's than any other iteration
- 991.2 GT3, GT3 RS and GT2 RS were all sold and delivered at the same time.


The last point has meant quite a few GT3's were seemingly sold back to OPC's as part of the deal to secure a GT3 RS slot etc.

The thing that amazes me is the spec of some of these cars that have been flipped....there are some very odd spec cars which will be difficult to shift.

Edited by Cheib on Friday 10th August 17:34

[Porsche911R]

how come so many 991.2 GT3 value questions each and every day.

the simple reason there are a few for sale is

a: you make £50k tax free.
b: you part ex for a RS

it is very easy to get your head round.

wait till the new GT4 and Spyder come out and see how many GT4 come up for sale.

It's been going on 5 years it's not a hard cycle to grasp, this time round though OPC have ******* the market with the part ex straight back for GT3 RS and GT2 RS etc.

It's so f******** up now it's a bit mad, we have people buying 5 or 6 normal cars to make £150k on a flip.
most deals are business deals and OPC's will sell to the best bidder.

All this local clients thing is out the window.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 10th August 17:43

[f1ten]

I would love to see how many pistonheaders are willing to pay £50k more to get the normal gt3 now which they were not allowed to order. My guess is not many. I don't mind buying retail and losing as per the old days of depreciation but I wont participate in a feeding frenzy.

911R/ Cheib you have it right, speculators still got on board with the .2 cars even though market volume has increased production and flipping but the ship has now sailed.

I considered a mark 1 gt3 2 months ago and just as I viewed it, the OPC said, we are just dropping the price of it! add 2 months, the car is down again.

Decided now to sit on the side lines. Which is very unlike me because I usually pile in right away when I want a car.

[Taffy66]

Part of the problem is that some OPCs bigger spending punters are automatically given the first allocations for all the latest 'must have' GT Porsches..This in itself is not the problem; the problem is that some of these well heeled buyers actually hate driving them for whatever reason and despite this they're still being given all the limited cars..
This suits the OPCs as they're happy to give them back with only a few hundred miles as they can get the latest toy which again they hate driving and so on..
This inflates the OPCs bank balance and the only losers are the genuine enthusiast who wanted the car to drive..

[Slippydiff]

Porsche911R said:

how come so many 991.2 GT3 value questions each and every day.

the simple reason there are a few for sale is

a: you make £50k tax free.
b: you part ex for a RS

it is very easy to get your head round.

wait till the new GT4 and Spyder come out and see how many GT4 come up for sale.

It's been going on 5 years it's not a hard cycle to grasp, this time round though OPC have ******* the market with the part ex straight back for GT3 RS and GT2 RS etc.

It's so f******** up now it's a bit mad, we have people buying 5 or 6 normal cars to make £150k on a flip.
most deals are business deals and OPC's will sell to the best bidder.

All this local clients thing is out the window.

Nonsense. As you've been telling us for years, any cars for sale with multiple owners so close to their launch, must be "useless".

And let's not forget the Gen 1 cars that were crashed early on, if you were to be believed, it was because there was something badly wrong with the chassis/the way they handled.

Funny that you went on to buy pretty much exactly the same car with a few revisions ....

For goodness sake, try some different medication.



911R. the only thing that's consistent about him, is his inconsistency

[throt]

Taffy66 said:

Part of the problem is that some OPCs bigger spending punters are automatically given the first allocations for all the latest 'must have' GT Porsches..This in itself is not the problem; the problem is that some of these well heeled buyers actually hate driving them for whatever reason and despite this they're still being given all the limited cars..
This suits the OPCs as they're happy to give them back with only a few hundred miles as they can get the latest toy which again they hate driving and so on..
This inflates the OPCs bank balance and the only losers are the genuine enthusiast who wanted the car to drive..

Bang on...

The discussion is finished now

[xbowdan]

f1ten said:

I would love to see how many pistonheaders are willing to pay £50k more to get the normal gt3 now which they were not allowed to order. My guess is not many. I don't mind buying retail and losing as per the old days of depreciation but I wont participate in a feeding frenzy.

911R/ Cheib you have it right, speculators still got on board with the .2 cars even though market volume has increased production and flipping but the ship has now sailed.

I considered a mark 1 gt3 2 months ago and just as I viewed it, the OPC said, we are just dropping the price of it! add 2 months, the car is down again.

Decided now to sit on the side lines. Which is very unlike me because I usually pile in right away when I want a car.

So, you dont mind “losing like the old days”, but you won’t buy a used car because you might lose???? That doesn’t make sense.

I bought in at overs and just treat it like I’ve bought a new car, in that I’ll enjoy it and lose a bit of money, but even ‘at overs’ it won’t lose much!

So many people coming up with excuses why not to buy, rather than just buying in and enjoying it, shock horror it might actually depreciate!!!

Had mine a month, fantastic bit of kit, plenty of road miles and two track days at Snet and Silverstone!! Awesome awesome car, really has exceeded expectations, and that’s coming from a 997RS that I LOVED!! This is s better car, it sounds better, handles better and certainly hasn’t lost its edge.

Sit on the sideline and watch us have fun, sounds like a great idea!!!

[GT4RS]

Market seems to be a pressure cooker at the moment. Now not the time to pay overs on any car

[Taffy66]

Hi xBowman..Nice to see someone buying a GT3 for driving enjoyment..Have you still got that gorgeous Crayon 991.2 GTS Targa manual..An amazing looking and specced car IMO..

[browngt3]

xbowdan said:

f1ten said:

I would love to see how many pistonheaders are willing to pay £50k more to get the normal gt3 now which they were not allowed to order. My guess is not many. I don't mind buying retail and losing as per the old days of depreciation but I wont participate in a feeding frenzy.

911R/ Cheib you have it right, speculators still got on board with the .2 cars even though market volume has increased production and flipping but the ship has now sailed.

I considered a mark 1 gt3 2 months ago and just as I viewed it, the OPC said, we are just dropping the price of it! add 2 months, the car is down again.

Decided now to sit on the side lines. Which is very unlike me because I usually pile in right away when I want a car.

So, you dont mind “losing like the old days”, but you won’t buy a used car because you might lose???? That doesn’t make sense.

I bought in at overs and just treat it like I’ve bought a new car, in that I’ll enjoy it and lose a bit of money, but even ‘at overs’ it won’t lose much!

So many people coming up with excuses why not to buy, rather than just buying in and enjoying it, shock horror it might actually depreciate!!!

Had mine a month, fantastic bit of kit, plenty of road miles and two track days at Snet and Silverstone!! Awesome awesome car, really has exceeded expectations, and that’s coming from a 997RS that I LOVED!! This is s better car, it sounds better, handles better and certainly hasn’t lost its edge.

Sit on the sideline and watch us have fun, sounds like a great idea!!!

Great Post! If you have the money what's the problem? You're either an enthusiast or you're not. These are such fantastic cars so just get one if you want one. Don't delay and with so many cars on the market there must be some good deals going surely..

[Cheib]

Well not that it matters but I am pretty sure I’d lose money on mine now if I wanted to sell it....1700miles and specced to close to £140k. There’s no way I’d get a trade bid above £140k now I reckon.

Oh well I’ll just have to keep it

[browngt3]

Cheib said:

Well not that it matters but I am pretty sure I’d lose money on mine now if I wanted to sell it....1700miles and specced to close to £140k. There’s no way I’d get a trade bid above £140k now I reckon.

Oh well I’ll just have to keep it

Clearly not a good time to sell. But even if you had to, how many new cars would you get most of your money back after a years motoring?

Like you, question is academic for me as I'm not selling the best and most enjoyable car in years

[xbowdan]

Taffy66 said:

Hi xBowman..Nice to see someone buying a GT3 for driving enjoyment..Have you still got that gorgeous Crayon 991.2 GTS Targa manual..An amazing looking and specced car IMO..

Thanks Taffy! The Targa was sold after just 3 months! A great looking car, but ultimately ‘just’ a normal car, certainly no GT3! No where near special enough if you have 2 or more cars, perhaps a good compromise if its your only car.

The GT3 is most certainly something special. Manual, N/A, 500hp, perhaps the last of its kind. Any more refined then it becomes more Street than track, which is not what I’m looking for. Hopefully Porsche GT cars of the future will just be lighter, equally as hard, more powerful versions of this. And keep the manual!!

[Cheib]

browngt3 said:

Cheib said:

Well not that it matters but I am pretty sure I’d lose money on mine now if I wanted to sell it....1700miles and specced to close to £140k. There’s no way I’d get a trade bid above £140k now I reckon.

Oh well I’ll just have to keep it

Clearly not a good time to sell. But even if you had to, how many new cars would you get most of your money back after a years motoring?

Like you, question is academic for me as I'm not selling the best and most enjoyable car in years

Only three months in my case but your point is extremely valid. Although I reckon the specialist Pork market is going to have a very bad winter....market was really really slow from last Sep through to March and there were a lot less cars for sale then than there are now.

[gunner]

I agree the market is slow but surely all these OPC's are reaping what they sow. They sell these cars to a significant part of their customer base with the promise of financial gain (as long as they participate on the way out of course!!) rather than because they are great cars. This leads to a feeding frenzy for all the wrong reasons and over production in comparison to 'real' demand rather than 'flipper' demand. Despite Porsche's protestations that they 'vet' serious customers and differentiate them from flippers it's obviously total bs. Hence so many for sale now. If the market was firm this practice wouldn't have led to the bottleneck we see currently but it isn't. My personal opinion is that most calls to OPC's are from panicked owners saying 'why haven't you sold my car yet?'. Sure, some will have flipped into the new RS but not as many as people think. And there are plenty of RS's for sale now, albeit not to the same extent.

The good news is a) that these cars will inevitably decline in value short term as owners/dealers become nervous giving 'real' buyers a chance to own them at more reasonable prices and b) It will not have gone unnoticed by the Porsche higher ups that the UK OPC network has this many GT3 models in stock. More than any other it would seem. As happy as they'll be to have produced and sold so many of them they'll hate seeing so many reappearing for sale so quickly and spoiling that halo effect. Certainly it would seem unique to the UK.

As many on here have said, if you own one of these lovely cars take it back from the dealer. Use it and enjoy it. If you put a few thousand miles on it and then go to sell it when the back log has cleared a bit I suspect you'll be none the worse off and what's more you'll have enjoyed the experience in arguably one pf the best Porsches ever.

[ags11]

xbowdan said:

So, you dont mind “losing like the old days”, but you won’t buy a used car because you might lose???? That doesn’t make sense.

I bought in at overs and just treat it like I’ve bought a new car, in that I’ll enjoy it and lose a bit of money, but even ‘at overs’ it won’t lose much!

So many people coming up with excuses why not to buy, rather than just buying in and enjoying it, shock horror it might actually depreciate!!!

Had mine a month, fantastic bit of kit, plenty of road miles and two track days at Snet and Silverstone!! Awesome awesome car, really has exceeded expectations, and that’s coming from a 997RS that I LOVED!! This is s better car, it sounds better, handles better and certainly hasn’t lost its edge.

Sit on the sideline and watch us have fun, sounds like a great idea!!!

This is the thing, you're the customer who should be getting an allocation.
Most OPC 's have a good idea which of their customers want to drive the cars.
What proportion of them actually care over profiteering is a different matter...

[EL77]

Porsche911R said:

how come so many 991.2 GT3 value questions each and every day.

the simple reason there are a few for sale is

a: you make £50k tax free.
b: you part ex for a RS

it is very easy to get your head round.

wait till the new GT4 and Spyder come out and see how many GT4 come up for sale.

It's been going on 5 years it's not a hard cycle to grasp, this time round though OPC have ******* the market with the part ex straight back for GT3 RS and GT2 RS etc.

It's so f******** up now it's a bit mad, we have people buying 5 or 6 normal cars to make £150k on a flip.
most deals are business deals and OPC's will sell to the best bidder.

All this local clients thing is out the window.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 10th August 17:43

Good luck with 50k!! I am in the market for a car and will pay a premium but I just watch the daily price reductions currently.

[EL77]

Cheib said:

Well not that it matters but I am pretty sure I’d lose money on mine now if I wanted to sell it....1700miles and specced to close to £140k. There’s no way I’d get a trade bid above £140k now I reckon.

Oh well I’ll just have to keep it

I would pay more than list.