F1 Free Practice
Discussion
The US GP was one of the best races in this year's Championship and it was mostly down to not having a free practice.
Considering that F1 is trying to cut costs should F1 ditch free practice?
Perhaps the circuits would feel the pinch with a day being lost but would it be worth it overall?
Thoughts?
Considering that F1 is trying to cut costs should F1 ditch free practice?
Perhaps the circuits would feel the pinch with a day being lost but would it be worth it overall?
Thoughts?
37chevy said:
Yes and no. I think they should have free practice but reduce it down to 2 sessions. Keep Friday practice but scrap Saturday and just have qually. Teams still need setup time
That sounds like a much better idea.This makes sure Friday is preserved but still cutting running time and costs.
Vaud said:
Keep 2 sessions (Fri) and swap Saturday for a sprint race for reserve drivers.
I doubt the teams would want the cars put into a position where the race driver could land up not getting into qualifying due to a reserve drivers mistake.But I like your idea of reserve drivers only in a session of practice.
Perhaps Friday would be best for that but again it will not cut costs and the teams will get data.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Vaud said:
Keep 2 sessions (Fri) and swap Saturday for a sprint race for reserve drivers.
I doubt the teams would want the cars put into a position where the race driver could land up not getting into qualifying due to a reserve drivers mistake.But I like your idea of reserve drivers only in a session of practice.
Perhaps Friday would be best for that but again it will not cut costs and the teams will get data.
Vaud said:
37chevy said:
Yes and no. I think they should have free practice but reduce it down to 2 sessions. Keep Friday practice but scrap Saturday and just have qually. Teams still need setup time
Keep 2 sessions (Fri) and swap Saturday for a sprint race for reserve drivers.The smaller teams can't afford to keep up as it is so now you wan them hindered even more.
All well and good- except -
1 - if you stop teams spending money on A they spend it on B instead . I will take cost cutting seriously when Mercedes stop spending half a billion a year and even teams at the beck of the grid stop blowing 100 grand on a front wing ..
2 for the poor saps who've blown a month's wages on a weekend at the GP . The entertainment is often already pretty thin and to restrict the opportunity of seeing what you pay for - y'know , F1cars at a GP? -makes the allure even less. It's bad enough when the selfish b
ds have a practice session but don't use it because the poor lambs think it's a bit chilly or damp. I cannot think of another sport which treats its paying customers with such contempt
1 - if you stop teams spending money on A they spend it on B instead . I will take cost cutting seriously when Mercedes stop spending half a billion a year and even teams at the beck of the grid stop blowing 100 grand on a front wing ..
2 for the poor saps who've blown a month's wages on a weekend at the GP . The entertainment is often already pretty thin and to restrict the opportunity of seeing what you pay for - y'know , F1cars at a GP? -makes the allure even less. It's bad enough when the selfish b
ds have a practice session but don't use it because the poor lambs think it's a bit chilly or damp. I cannot think of another sport which treats its paying customers with such contempt ELUSIVEJIM said:
The US GP was one of the best races in this year's Championship and it was mostly down to not having a free practice.
Considering that F1 is trying to cut costs should F1 ditch free practice?
Perhaps the circuits would feel the pinch with a day being lost but would it be worth it overall?
Thoughts?
Not sure the race being interesting had anything to do with free practice limitation. Mercedes problems the night before the race is what made it more interesting. The Mercedes was a "dog" during the race and Hamilton wrestling it around the track is what made it fun. Considering that F1 is trying to cut costs should F1 ditch free practice?
Perhaps the circuits would feel the pinch with a day being lost but would it be worth it overall?
Thoughts?
Monza, Germany and Baku were much better racing wise to my eyes. The problem is Austin was that Hamilton wasn't going to risk much. Proved how gentle he was when trying to pass Verstapen and how he hardly tried to pass Kimi before Ferrari pitted.
I think that people thought the race was great just because Kimi finally managed to win a race,
Ross Brawn's take on it - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139582/f1-should...
Kraken said:
Ross Brawn's take on it - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139582/f1-should...
Was the closeness of the race due to the loss of one day's free practice? Brawn seems to think so, but I wonder. Merc had to make some last minute changes to the car that unsettled it. Is this the reason it was not quite as competitive as we would have expected?
Raikkonen overtook Hamilton for the lead at the first corner. Hamilton had too much to loose by fighting for the corner so let him go. He had one attempt at Verstappen. Had he been fighting to stay in the WDC rather than for the WDC, he'd have had other attempts.
The Renault in the RB lasted, at least in one car.
Lots of circumstances were unusual, which could not be put down to no FP 1 and 2:
The track was green, which might well have favoured RB with regards tyre wear.
Merc made a bit of a tactical error.
Ferrari did not.
And the usual one is that there are just three cars in the race for first. If a circuit has easy overtaking, the top six drivers will be in the top six.
All these circumstances may well have had an effect on the outcome of the race, and that three cars were close at the end.
I don't think we should be carried away by what was one exciting race. I can't see it all be down to one thing.
I can't see it making the racing worse by removing some of the data the teams have. At present everything is analysed down to the last detail. Look at when they race at tracks they test at, everyone lines up two by two in team order.
Removing a lot of the data capture would be a great way to reduce cost as well. Just look at the amount of staff they have sitting in front of data screens in the back of the garages not to mention that the top teams all have banks of people analysing the race data at their base on top of those.
Removing a lot of the data capture would be a great way to reduce cost as well. Just look at the amount of staff they have sitting in front of data screens in the back of the garages not to mention that the top teams all have banks of people analysing the race data at their base on top of those.
Derek Smith said:
Was the closeness of the race due to the loss of one day's free practice? Brawn seems to think so, but I wonder.
I would say it had more to do with the weather being completely different (and much hotter) on race day than it had been in practice and quali.Edited by Norfolkit on Friday 26th October 16:27
Kraken said:
I can't see it making the racing worse by removing some of the data the teams have. At present everything is analysed down to the last detail. Look at when they race at tracks they test at, everyone lines up two by two in team order.
Removing a lot of the data capture would be a great way to reduce cost as well. Just look at the amount of staff they have sitting in front of data screens in the back of the garages not to mention that the top teams all have banks of people analysing the race data at their base on top of those.
Oh the boys are going to love you! How about a capped wage for the drivers then?Removing a lot of the data capture would be a great way to reduce cost as well. Just look at the amount of staff they have sitting in front of data screens in the back of the garages not to mention that the top teams all have banks of people analysing the race data at their base on top of those.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Oh the boys are going to love you! How about a capped wage for the drivers then?
Don't see the need for that. The drivers are what pull people to the sport after all. It's not the guys sitting at their laptops no matter how good a job they are doing.At the end of the day I find it utter madness the amount of money and people it costs to run two F1 cars compared to other series.
If they want to shake things up they should change the points system to prevent drivers from just coasting to the WDC
Award points for fastest in practice
Award points for qualifying position
‘Wildcard’ points for most positions improved from starting to finish position that rewards drivers who actually push hard. Deduct points for positions lost from qualifying to final.
At the moment it’s all or nothing when you cross the line, if you reward drivers for the ‘show’ they put on it gives more opportunities for talented drivers like Riccardo who push hard through the grid to be rewarded and punishes drives like Hamilton who play it safe - a system where they need to push hard on every session or face losing points regardless of win to drivers actually racing from the mid pack would create some highly unpredictable results and stop the sort of B driver tactical nonsense if it was set up so any points gained from say Kimi moving over to let Seb through were lost by the team for Kimi giving up a position and Kimi retaining WC points from qualifying quicker.
It’d also offset reliability issues where somone leads the whole race and engine blows up on the final lap - if they at least gain points for qualifying and practice it negates the total loss of effort by teams who just cruise through without taking risks.
You can still have a traditional winners podium for line honours but have a seperated WDC and constructors points system that reflects total performance over a race weekend with both drivers factored in.
Award points for fastest in practice
Award points for qualifying position
‘Wildcard’ points for most positions improved from starting to finish position that rewards drivers who actually push hard. Deduct points for positions lost from qualifying to final.
At the moment it’s all or nothing when you cross the line, if you reward drivers for the ‘show’ they put on it gives more opportunities for talented drivers like Riccardo who push hard through the grid to be rewarded and punishes drives like Hamilton who play it safe - a system where they need to push hard on every session or face losing points regardless of win to drivers actually racing from the mid pack would create some highly unpredictable results and stop the sort of B driver tactical nonsense if it was set up so any points gained from say Kimi moving over to let Seb through were lost by the team for Kimi giving up a position and Kimi retaining WC points from qualifying quicker.
It’d also offset reliability issues where somone leads the whole race and engine blows up on the final lap - if they at least gain points for qualifying and practice it negates the total loss of effort by teams who just cruise through without taking risks.
You can still have a traditional winners podium for line honours but have a seperated WDC and constructors points system that reflects total performance over a race weekend with both drivers factored in.
Don't fall victim to the alluring fallacy of thinking, because some teams were wrong footed last weekend by the loss of Friday practice, that getting rid of Friday practice would have the same effect every race - it wouldn't, the teams would adjust their practices to compensate and the natural order would resume.
Teddy Lop said:
Don't fall victim to the alluring fallacy of thinking, because some teams were wrong footed last weekend by the loss of Friday practice, that getting rid of Friday practice would have the same effect every race - it wouldn't, the teams would adjust their practices to compensate and the natural order would resume.
Oh I agree. As noted i think they should use the time for another mini race for junior/up and coming drivers on Saturday - add more value to the weekend. FP1 / FP2 - Friday. Quali Sat PM followed by 20 lap mini sprint race Sat PM for juniors, random grid. Separate points table. Big prize for winner (from Liberty or a single sponsor).Teddy Lop said:
Don't fall victim to the alluring fallacy of thinking, because some teams were wrong footed last weekend by the loss of Friday practice, that getting rid of Friday practice would have the same effect every race - it wouldn't, the teams would adjust their practices to compensate and the natural order would resume.
True, the always cream rises to the top but I think the racing would be closer.An example would be the infamous 2010 Canadian GP. Green track on Sunday caused blistering up and down the field. In hindsight FIA went in the wrong direction with crap Pirelli tyres which were a extreme reaction to Bridgestones which were too good and hard.
What should be be done is to limit practice time and I agree with Kraken to reduce the amount of data the teams receive and analyse. Controlled, basic telemetry. Perhaps go back to 90s data logging ie. plug in laptop to download data from the car or ideally FIA securely holds data that can be released after the race.
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