My Advice/Buyer's Guide for the XJ8/XJR8 1997-2003
Discussion
Dear Pistonheads,
This is my first post on the site. I have been lurking for quite a while and I have always enjoyed the shared information and debate. PH is a terrific site. Thank you to all the PH contributors...especially the regulars. I really don't know how you find the time!
For the record, I am pro traffic police, pro raising the standard of the driving test, and against cameras.
I have recently purchased a 2000 Jaguar XJR8 after owning a 1998 Jaguar XJ8 3.2 Executive. This forum and others provided some useful hints and tips while I was researching both cars, not to mention a myriad of other motoring gems.
To repay the collective goodwill and to make my first post a positive contribution I have compiled all I have learnt into a buyer’s guide for the XJ8/XJR8 (1997 - 2003). A substantial part of the guide will apply to the XK8/XKR too.
Most of the information exists elsewhere but I couldn't find it all in one place. I offer enormous credit to all those folks (too many to mention) who researched and posted the information in the first place.
The guide is my interpretation of information. Please remember that and draw your own conclusions. That said, I based the logical part of my XJR8 purchase decision on everything here.
I have structured the guide into an executive summary and 6 sections.
Potential Problems
1) Nikasil Cylinder Linings/High Sulphur Fuel
2) Timing Chain Tensioners
3) Sticking Throttle Mechanism
4) Thermostat/Water-pump
5) Fading Walnut
and….
6) General Information and Sagely Advice
Off we go then……..
[b]Executive Summary (see below for more detail)[/b]
Buy an XJ8/XJR8 that was registered after 1st January 2000.
By purchasing a car registered after that date you bypass the 3 biggest issues. Your car has avoided high sulphur fuel, you have the upgraded (2nd generation timing tensioners), and your car won’t stall on motorways (upgraded throttle body).
In my opinion these are magnificent vehicles that offer automotive enthusiasts unrivalled value for money. The XJ8 has all the tradition, beauty, comfort, and practical performance that you will ever need. The XJR8 has the refined attributes of an XJ8 plus performance that blurs the world.
[b]1) Nikasil / High Sulphur Fuel Issue
Decsription/Bad News[/b]
Many (1997-2000) Jaguar XJ8s have engines that can fail when exposed to high sulphur fuel.
Nikasil is a metal coating that some manufacturers used to line the inside of their engine cylinders....notably BMW and Jaguar. In theory nikasil is great. It's lightweight, offers lower friction, and is generally hard wearing. HOWEVER......... Nikasil can be damaged by sulphur. Petrol contains sulphur and there is the problem.
Sulphur levels in petrol vary. If a nikasil engine is repeatedly exposed to high sulphur fuel (particularly during short journeys) the nikasil linings will deteriorate. Sooner or later this will result in engine failure.
[b]Good News and Information[/b]
The good news is a) low sulphur fuel has been compulsory in the EU since 1st January 2000, and b) Jaguar stopped using nikasil in August/September 2000.
The following information was supplied by Shell who were excellent in responding to my questions.
Fuel grade dates (European Union only, US varies from state to state)
The sulphur content in the lead-free petrol (95) is (by law EN 228 & EN 590 specification):
before 2000: max 500 ppm
(ppm = parts per million)
from 2000: max 150 ppm
as from 01-2005 max 50 ppm
(Sulphur-free = below 10 ppm)
The replacement for a nikasil lining was a steel lining and Jaguar switched their production in August/September 2000 although the exact date is unknown. There is some confusion around the web about precisely which cars are affected. Jaguar has issued a statement saying that cars from 2000 onwards would not be affected. This may be true because low sulphur fuel became compulsory on 1st January 2000, but it does not mean that all 2000 cars have steel liners. To be sure you have a steel liner you should inspect the engine.
Some sources will tell you that if your VIN starts with a letter (for example F) then you will definitely have steel liners. This is incorrect. There are several examples of XJ owners with FXXXXX VINs who have had their liners inspected and found the liners to be nikasil.
Jaguar dealers can perform a test to check for premature engine wear due to nikasil issues. It's called a blow-by test. If you buy an early car from a dealer, make sure this test is gets done.
Just because you have nikasil does not mean you have a bad engine. Without exposure to high sulphur fuel it will probably be OK.
[b]Conclusion of Nikasil Issue[/b]
Cars registered before September 2000 will probably have nikasil liners. Cars registered after September 2000 will probably have steel liners.
Cars registered before 1st January 2000 are a higher risk purchase than those registered after 1st January 2000.
An interesting thought is that cars registered between January 2000 and September 2000 will have nikasil linings but they will not have been exposed to high sulphur fuel. It is possible that these engines will be harder wearing than the steel lined engines and owners of such vehicles will benefit from nikasil in the longer term. I rather like this idea......my XJR8 was registered in July 2000 :-)
[b]2) Timing Chain Tensioners Issue
Description/Bad News[/b]
Although probably a low percentage overall, many owners of the XJ8 8 cylinder engines have reported problems with the timing chain tensioners. XJR8s are also susceptible but possibly to a lesser degree because they use a simpler timing mechanism.
The tensioner's job is to keep the timing chain tight. If a tensioner fails, the timing chain becomes loose and the chain can jump one or more teeth on the cogs in the engine. Apparently one jumped tooth results in rough running. Two jumped teeth and the engine can destroy itself.
[b]Good News and Information[/b]
The good news is that a) not all engines are affected, b) the problem can be prevented in advance although at significant cost, and c) Jaguar acknowledge the problem (sort of) and have revised their tensioner design twice during the production run.
The problem is mainly confined to cars from 1997, 1998, and 1999. Cars from this era had the original specification tensioners. These first generation tensioners are made of plastic. During regular use the plastic weakens until eventually it cracks and in some cases disintegrates. When this happens the tensioner loses its compression and the pressure on the timing chain is reduced or lost making a jumped tooth more likely....bad news although it is not an automatic disaster.
The problem generally shows itself at approximately 60000 miles (100,000km) and upwards.
Jaguar issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that addresses the issue.
The TSB number is 303-30.
Here is the text.
<<start of Jaguar text>>
Engine - Rattle Noise on Start Up 303-30
DATE 12/98
V8 XJ Series/XK8
MODEL
1997-99 MY XK8 Range
1998-99 MY V8 XJ Series
VIN
Refer to engine no. in
text
Noise During Start Up - Install Revised Timing Chain Tensioners
Issue:
Some vehicles within the above VIN range may experience a rattling noise when the engine is started. This noise may be caused by the secondary timing chain tensioners. Research has shown that a noise can originate at the chain tensioners to cause a resonance in another part of the engine.
A revised, spring assisted, secondary timing chain tensioner has been introduced to eliminate this concern, commencing at engine No. 98102106XX. Introductory VINs are not yet available. In case of a customer complaint, the revised tensioners may be installed on earlier V8 engines. Action:
In case of a customer complaint of start up noise, determine if the noise is caused by the secondary timing chain tensioners. If the secondary timing chain tensioners are the cause of the noise, they should be replaced by the revised tensioners
<<end of Jaguar text>>
My 1998 XJ8 3.2 had this rattle. The best way to hear the rattle is to open the bonnet, and get someone else to start the car while you listen at the front of the engine. Make sure you have left the car overnight (really overnight) so that the tensioners have lost all their pressure.
To me the rattle is similar to the sound a bicycle chain makes when it runs loose through its chain guard. Imagine that you turn your bicycle upside down to put the chain on and you turn the pedals by hand. Usually (in my experience) there are a few seconds where the chain doesn't quite catch on the teeth and it is dragged loosely along the inside (upside down) chain guard. Imagine that sound heavier and faster and you have the engine rattle. If you don't quite follow (or you have never had a chain guard) just imagine a heavy metal chain being pulled quickly along some thick plastic. That's the kind of sound and it is very audible. Trust me, you will know it if you have it. The sound will last for a few seconds. In my case it was two- three seconds and other people have reported greater durations than that.
You can consult your engine number (different to the VIN number). The engine number may be on your car's documentation. Otherwise you can apparently find it on your engine at the front left-hand side (as you sit in the car). I couldn't see mine but there are some descriptions of "how to" on the web.
http://forums1.roadfly.com/jaguar/forums/xj8/6349517-1.html
Interestingly the engine number is something of a time and date stamp...keep it simple, and why not?
Pre engine number 98102106XX you should be careful. After this engine number Jaguar introduced the second generation of tensioners. They are strengthened (although still plastic) and they seem to do a much better job. My 2000 XJR has no rattle at all during starting. Jaguar released a steel tensioner in 2002/2003. Some Jaguar technicians have reported fitting this steel tensioner during preventative maintenance.
It is possible to upgrade all your tensioners and preferably to the steel version. This is quite a big job costing approximately 2000 pounds or 3000 euros at a main dealer. Many independent specialists will do it for less but it isn't small change. Still, what price peace of mind?
Here are some good articles on the subject.
http://www.johnmulvihill.com/Personal/jag_service_issues.htm
http://www.jag-lovers.org/cjw/#0104a
[b]Summary of Tensioners Issue[/b]
1997-1999 have first generation tensioners.
1999-2002 have the second generation.
2002-2003 probably has the third generation.
If you buy earlier than engine number 98102106XX, make sure you factor in the potential costs and hassle of this issue.
After engine number 98102106XX you don’t need to worry too much.
[b]3) Throttle Mechanism Issue
Description/Bad News[/b]
Under certain driving conditions your engine can stall. This usually happens on high speed roads (dual carriageways or motorways) at speeds around 60MPH/100KmPH.
I have personally experienced this with my 1998 XJ8 3.2 and it’s not good. I was travelling at 65 MPH in the middle lane of the motorway. Suddenly and without warning I lost all power (the engine stalled) and I had to navigate across traffic to the hard shoulder. The car will start and drive perfectly well once the ignition is switched off then on again. This happened several times over a period of 3 months.
[b]Good News and Information[/b]
Similarly to the tensioners, the good news is that a) not all cars are affected, b) it’s a relatively easy and cheapish fix, and c) Jaguar acknowledge the problem (sort of) with changes during the production run. Jaguar issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB S514) to correct the problem.
Apparently some dealers don’t acknowledge the issue mind you. Perhaps they haven’t received the bulletin, who knows? I must say that I find it incredible that any Jaguar dealer sells a second hand car without checking and fixing this issue. It’s not that hard or expensive to put right and if someone has a serious accident a court case could develop. In America some people are talking about a class action. My 1998 XJ8 3.2 was supplied from a Jaguar dealer without this work being done. They fixed it under warranty at no charge once I had encountered the problem and once I had found the TSB, but really this should be something they are double checking before selling any car.
Here is the main content of the TSB and a link to the full article.
<<start of Jaguar text>>
Service Action Number:
S514
Publication No.: 303-S514
Model: XK Series N/A vehicles
Model Year: 1997 to 1998
VIN Range: 001036 to 031302
Model: XK Series SC vehicles
Model Year: 1998.75 to 1999
VIN Range: 024695 to 042775
Model: V8 XJ Series N/A vehicles
Model Year: 1998
VIN Range: 812256 to 853935
Model: V8 XJ Series SC vehicles
Model Year: 1998 to 1999
VIN Range: 812256 to 878717
Subject
Throttle Closed Position Operation
Date of Issue: 13 May 2004
To: All Jaguar UK Authorized Repairers
For the Attention of: The Managing Director
Copies to: The Service/Aftersales Director/Manager
The Parts Director/Manager
JAGSA - 13/05/04 – 303-S514V1 Page 1 of 8
RE: Throttle closed position operation
Dear Colleagues
A concern has been identified with the throttle operation on a number of vehicles in the above VIN range. Under exceptional circumstances this concern could cause the engine to cut out, although the engine will continue to be driven by the road wheels through the transmission and drive the ancillaries, so there will be no loss of power steering, brakes, air conditioning, etc. The engine should restart without difficulty once the vehicle has come to a complete standstill.
Action to be taken
To aid in the identification of repairs required by vehicle, Table 1 of this Service Action provides a breakdown of the repair required by model year, model description, and VIN range. See Workshop Procedure attached as Appendix 1. For those vehicles that require the ECM to be reprogrammed, Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) release JTP759/31, or later, should be used.
Table 1
Model Year Model Description VIN Range Repair Required
1997 to 1998 XK Series N/A 001036 to 020734 Reprogram ECM
1998 V8 XJ Series (both N/A and SC) 812256 to 819771 Reprogram ECM
1998 XK Series N/A 020735 to 031302 Replace throttle body
1998.75 to 1999 XK Series (SC) 024695 to 042775 Replace throttle body
1998 V8 XJ Series N/A only 819772 to 853935 Replace throttle body
1998 to 1999 V8 XJ Series SC only` 819772 to 878717 Replace throttle body
You are requested to make contact with the drivers of the affected vehicles and request that the vehicle be made available, at the driver's earliest convenience, for the modification to the throttle operation to be undertaken. A sample customer letter is attached as Appendix 2.
S514
Parts information
The following parts, if required, should be ordered through Jaguar Parts Operations following the normal procedure.
Table 3
Description Part Number Quantity
Throttle body C2A 1470 EK 1
Gasket NNE 3021AC 1
Labor time information
Table 4
Description SRO Time
Reprogram ECM 86.99.13 0.4 hours
Replace throttle body and gasket 19.91.65 0.5 hours
Drive in/drive out 10.10.10 0.1 hours
Warranty claims should be submitted quoting program code S514 together with the relevant option code from Table 5 of this service action. This will result in payment of the stated time and, where applicable, parts/miscellaneous expense codes. The options that allow for drive in/drive out can only be claimed if the vehicle has been brought in to the workshop for this action alone to be undertaken.
Table 5
Program
Code Option Description SRO Time
(Hours) Part Number Description Qty
S514 B Reprogram ECM 86.99.13 0.4 hours
Reprogram ECM 86.99.13 0.4 S514 C Drive in/drive out 10.10.10 0.1 hours
S514 D Replace throttle
body and gasket 19.91.65 0.5 C2A 1470 EK
NNE 3021AC
Throttle body
Gasket
1
1
Replace throttle
body and gasket 19.91.65 0.5 S514 E
Drive in/drive out 10.10.10 0.1
C2A 1470 EK
NNE 3021AC
Throttle body
Gasket
1
1
Warranty claims should be submitted in accordance with the current Jaguar Warranty Policy and Procedures Manual and its amendments, unless stated otherwise in this Service Action.
<<end of Jaguar text>>
http://members.cox.net/blackbeard2004/throttle%20body2.pdf
[b]Summary of Throttle Issue[/b]
Make sure this work has been done on any car before you buy. It is not quite as exceptional as the TSB might have you believe. The other potential problems could be expensive and annoying but this one could put you and your family in a dangerous position.
If your XJ has a VIN before 878717 you need to check that the work has been done.
After VIN 878717 you should be OK. The VIN format changed for 2000 and onwards. The newer format is Fxxxxx (where xxxxx are numbers).
[b]4) Thermostat / Water-pump Issue
Description / Bad News[/b]
A problem with a sticking thermostat can cause the engine to overheat and damage the water-pump.
On a related note I have heard and read that overheating can accelerate the problems with the tensioners.
[b]Good News and Information[/b]
The good news is that this issue has received less coverage than the first three problems and I believe that means there is a smaller chance of encountering the problem.
Apparently early water pumps had plastic vanes that were vulnerable to damage when the engine overheated. A defective thermostat would allow the engine to overheat and the plastic vanes would disintegrate. The effectiveness of the water-pump was reduced leading to further overheating problems.
I haven’t been able to find a TSB on this subject and the evidence is anecdotal. However enough references exist to make be feel that this is worth checking. My 2000 XJR had its thermostat replaced in 2002 by the dealer and that satisfied me.
It is my impression that Jaguar upgraded the thermostat and water-pump although the exact date is unclear. I estimate that this happened around 2001.
[b]Summary for Thermostat/Water-pump Issue[/b]
Check if the thermostat and water-pump have been replaced on cars older than 2001. If not, you might want to factor in these potential costs.
[b]5) Fading Walnut Issue on 2000/2001 Cars
Description / Bad News[/b]
On some 2000/2001 cars the walnut becomes milky and faded.
[b]Good News and Information[/b]
The good news is that Jaguar fixed this under warranty when it was brought to their attention.
Again, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence around but no TSB. I read a note from a Jaguar person that confirmed a faulty batch of wood. The problem is to do with the lacquer treatment applied to the wood.
[b]Summary of Fading Walnut Issue on 2000/2001 Cars[/b]
My opinion is that if a 2001 car isn’t showing any signs of fading or a milky finish by now either a) it has had its wood replaced or b) it came from a good batch.
Something to watch out for but it’s pretty easy to spot. There are enough cars without this problem to make it worthwhile leaving a car with the problem. If it absolutely is the car for you then factor in the costs. I don’t know the exact cost but it isn’t going to be cheap!
[b]6) General Information and Sagely Advice[/b]
Wheel Bearings and Suspension
Some people talk about the front suspension and wheel bearings being a problem/weak point. On every car there is something that will wear out before other bits do. An XJ8/XJR8 is a big car. They have large wheels/tyres and I can imagine that the forces applied to the suspension and wheel bearings will be substantial. When they wear out, they need replacing. It’s a car. Not an issue for me.
Oil Changes
Try to buy a car that has had its oil changed more often than the service intervals suggest. This advice applies to any car but I have read comments from Jaguar mechanics suggesting that the 10000 mile (16000km) oil change interval is unacceptable if you want your car to be a long term bet. If you can buy a car previously owned by an enthusiast who has changed the oil (synthetic by the way) every 5000 miles then you are making a wise choice.
Depreciation
If you buy from a dealer you can expect a reduction in value of around 20% once you drive it off the forecourt. Overall I reckon 50% reduction in value for every three years is about right. It's harder to sell an XJ8 than you think. My experience is that there are few buyers out there, even when your car is mint (my 1998 XJ8 was) and you have a low price (mine was in the bottom 20% of the market).
Insurance
Even after I shopped around my fully comprehensive (all inclusive) XJR8 premium before no-claims-discount is 3000 quid (4500 euros)….I’m 33 by the way, and live in a pleasant suburb without a garage. The XJ8 base premium was 2000 pounds (3000 euros).
Fuel Consumption
If this is part of your buying decision you shouldn’t have bothered to read this far. XJ8 average = 21.5 mpg. XJR8 average =18.8 mpg.......easy enough to get it into single digits though :-)
Tyres
The Michelin Pilot Sport is regarded as best balance for performance and longevity on XJR. I unexpectedly received a brand new set of Pirelli P-Zeros (result) from the dealer and they perform well. When I buy a new set it will probably be the Pilot Sports to provide a comparison based on my driving style. Whichever you choose you can expect 200 pounds (300 euros) a corner and if you are an XJR owner this will become a regular expense. Check the tread depth before you buy!
Servicing
This has been one of the more pleasant surprises of Jaguar ownership. My last XJ8 112000km service (10000m/16000km/annual) was 250 pounds (400 euros). Much less than I was expecting.
Sound System
The standard sound system will probably not be as good as you think it should/could be but it’s OK. The premium sound system is a significant improvement but don’t pay thousands extra for it. You can tell if it's a premium system by checking for a sub-woofer on the back shelf, and the front tweeters will be in the windscreen pillars rather than by the inside door handles.
CD changer
Be careful here. From 1999 onwards only Jaguar approved Alpine CD changers will work with a Jaguar head unit (even though the connectors are identical). Try to make sure your car has a CD changer installed when you buy. If it hasn’t you can pay 500 pounds (750 euros) to get a Jaguar one. My advice is that if you don't have a CD changer get an Ipod or Pocket PC with an FM transmitter...better than 500 quid on an "OK" CD changer.
Rear Leg-room
It is true that 5 sizable adults won’t travel long distances comfortably in an XJ8/XJR8. Two of them certainly will, 2 more might be OK at a squeeze, but one will not. If you want a car for 5 sizable adults you need to look elsewhere….perhaps a Vauxhall (Opel) Zafira, but let me tell you something from my experience. For 98% of my motoring requirements the XJR exceeds the necessary standards by a country mile. For the remaining 2% the 3 sizable adults don’t give a hoot or stuff about the cramped leg-room. They are travelling in a Jaguar and a Jaguar XJR8 at that. Everyone loves the car and everyone wants to ride in it.
Useful Web Links
Road Fly Forum. www.roadfly.com/jaguar/forums
“Vic” and “Real Tech” are (were) Jaguar technicians. They always give good information.
Jaguar Club North America. www.jcna.com
Jag Lovers. http://www.jag-lovers.org/
Performance of the XJ8
The XJ8 is no slouch and many people have been surprised that such a large car can crack 60MPH in around 8 seconds. The suspension is on the soft side (particularly the standard touring option) and you will experience significant body-roll if you push an XJ8 round some twisty corners. That said, if performance is not your main focus, the XJ8 will be more, much more than adequate. On top of that you will have one of the world’s most beautiful designs on your doorstep.
Performance of the XJR8
Performance is impressive to say the least. The XJR8 will do 0-60 in 5.3 seconds if you ask it to but it’s the real-world mid-range clout that truly perplexes. You can waft along with the grace and elegance of a royal limousine, yet within the blink of an eye the XJR8 will melt the scenery and transform an overtaking opportunity into an exhilarating piece of personal folklore.
Performance of the XJR8 – Part 2
Granted, there are quicker cars and there are more luxurious cars, but no other car combines such luxury and such pace with such style. Of course, this is subjective but if like me you a) are a traditional automotive enthusiast, and b) desire practical performance motoring without spending truly serious money, nothing matches the XJR8.
Well done on a very useful guide, here's my take on the tensioner issue.
______________________
Secondary Timing Chain Tensioner Reliability. (4.0 Litre engines)
These components were developed using innovative techniques and materials, for the brand new AJV8 engine. The material being a light weight and durable Polyamide composite. In fact, there are quite a few “plastic” components found on this engine, and whilst weight saving, and beneficial to performance, they have not been designed to cope with some of the extreme conditions and neglect that can, and do occur.
The concern is not limited to, but is most often seen in the Secondary Timing Chain Tensioners. The primary tensioners and guides are also constructed from the same material, but due to the way they function, don’t seem to have as many problems.
The design has been revised several times, on the latest version the main body is of metal construction.
The tensioners take up the slack in the timing chains by oil pressure acting on the device to extend a piston from the tensioner body. The first problem with this idea was recognized early on, and addressed in 1998. If the tensioner fails to maintain the oil pressure, and the piston retracts after the engine has stopped, this will cause the chains to rattle on start-up. This was solved with the addition of the spring assisted piston.
The far the more worrying concern that has come to light, is that the material of the tensioner body, and the part that is in contact with the chains, can fracture, and become trapped in the chains. This can cause a sudden stress in the timing gear, and could cause the chain to snap. If the plastic cover that the chain runs over becomes detached , the chain will be running over the metal sub structure of the tensioner, causing chain wear.
The latest version of tensioner addresses these concerns, with a metal tensioner body, and a more secure “slipper” fitted to the piston.
What seems to shorten the life of these plastic components is, lack of regular oil changes, and any overheating of the engine.
I personally do not see these plastic parts as a life of the engine component, more as an item that would be better renewed at say, major service intervals 60k, considering the damage failure can cause, and the relative small cost of maintaining them in good condition. This is just my point of view, from balancing the information that is currently available.
This extract from JAGUAR WORLD MONTHLY Dec. 2003 “The weak link is the upper chain tensioner, which is a double ended device with a fixed slipper at one end to guide the drive side of the chain, and spring loaded the other side to progressively take up slack as the chain wears. Unfortunately, the plastic used seems to break down over time, cracking, and eventually disintegrating. Eventually one of the slippers will fall off, leaving only the metal frame to support the chain.”
After reading the latest article in the JAGUAR ENTHUSIASTS CLUB magazine, I contacted the editor, Nigel Thorley, as I was concerned that they had not made mention of the availability of the latest version of tensioner. I also contacted my mechanic, who checked the availability of the parts. I am pleased to say that these parts are now available for anyone considering this work in the future, as this will hopefully see an end to this weak point in an otherwise robust engine.
(see below)
Thanks again for taking the time to come and see me.
I have acted upon the service note and ordered the revised tensioners.
they are indeed a aluminium body and therefore can be considered more robust.
Interestingly, they do not have the external spring assist that the revised plastic ones have.
This not withstanding, we will now be fitting these metal ones from now on, although I do not anticipate problems with the plastic versions we have been fitting.
thanks again for the heads up.
As indicated, anyone who has had revised plastic tensioners fitted should expect long service from them, as long as the engine oil is changed at the optimum intervals, and there has been no overheating of the engine.
If this problem is addressed before the tensioner starts to disintegrate, it is only necessary to renew the secondary tensioners. If the chains have been running against the metal sub frame of the tensioner, the chains should be replaced. This is a far more involved procedure, and it would be prudent to replace primary chains and tensioners also.
SECONDARY TENSIONER INFORMATION SHEET
Ways in which the tensioners fail.
Rattle at start up , caused by oil pressure bleed down.
Rattle at start up and idle, cause by plastic slipper becoming detached.
Resulting slack causes chain to jump 1 tooth causing poor running.
Resulting slack causes chain to jump more than 1 tooth causing valves to collide with pistons.
Chain breakage caused by fragments being trapped in timing gear.
Technical Service Bulletins Released by Jaguar
December 1998 Bulletin No. 303-30
February 2005 Bulletin No. X303-68
Vehicles VIN range affected. 001001-A24195 xk model
Magazine articles on the subject
Jaguar World Monthly. Dec 2003 - Jan. 2004
Jaguar Enthusiast Magazine March 2005
Part numbers for the latest metal tensioners
Description Part No. Quantity
Secondary tensioner left-hand AJ87694 1
Secondary tensioner right-hand AJ87693 1
Bolt JFB 10607E 4
Likely cost to carry out the work
Replacing secondary tensioners only. £300-£500
Replacing all tensioners, chains and guides. £1,000- £1,500
___________________________________________________
John Millar 2005
>> Edited by john millar on Tuesday 26th July 11:53
______________________
Secondary Timing Chain Tensioner Reliability. (4.0 Litre engines)
These components were developed using innovative techniques and materials, for the brand new AJV8 engine. The material being a light weight and durable Polyamide composite. In fact, there are quite a few “plastic” components found on this engine, and whilst weight saving, and beneficial to performance, they have not been designed to cope with some of the extreme conditions and neglect that can, and do occur.
The concern is not limited to, but is most often seen in the Secondary Timing Chain Tensioners. The primary tensioners and guides are also constructed from the same material, but due to the way they function, don’t seem to have as many problems.
The design has been revised several times, on the latest version the main body is of metal construction.
The tensioners take up the slack in the timing chains by oil pressure acting on the device to extend a piston from the tensioner body. The first problem with this idea was recognized early on, and addressed in 1998. If the tensioner fails to maintain the oil pressure, and the piston retracts after the engine has stopped, this will cause the chains to rattle on start-up. This was solved with the addition of the spring assisted piston.
The far the more worrying concern that has come to light, is that the material of the tensioner body, and the part that is in contact with the chains, can fracture, and become trapped in the chains. This can cause a sudden stress in the timing gear, and could cause the chain to snap. If the plastic cover that the chain runs over becomes detached , the chain will be running over the metal sub structure of the tensioner, causing chain wear.
The latest version of tensioner addresses these concerns, with a metal tensioner body, and a more secure “slipper” fitted to the piston.
What seems to shorten the life of these plastic components is, lack of regular oil changes, and any overheating of the engine.
I personally do not see these plastic parts as a life of the engine component, more as an item that would be better renewed at say, major service intervals 60k, considering the damage failure can cause, and the relative small cost of maintaining them in good condition. This is just my point of view, from balancing the information that is currently available.
This extract from JAGUAR WORLD MONTHLY Dec. 2003 “The weak link is the upper chain tensioner, which is a double ended device with a fixed slipper at one end to guide the drive side of the chain, and spring loaded the other side to progressively take up slack as the chain wears. Unfortunately, the plastic used seems to break down over time, cracking, and eventually disintegrating. Eventually one of the slippers will fall off, leaving only the metal frame to support the chain.”
After reading the latest article in the JAGUAR ENTHUSIASTS CLUB magazine, I contacted the editor, Nigel Thorley, as I was concerned that they had not made mention of the availability of the latest version of tensioner. I also contacted my mechanic, who checked the availability of the parts. I am pleased to say that these parts are now available for anyone considering this work in the future, as this will hopefully see an end to this weak point in an otherwise robust engine.
(see below)
Thanks again for taking the time to come and see me.
I have acted upon the service note and ordered the revised tensioners.
they are indeed a aluminium body and therefore can be considered more robust.
Interestingly, they do not have the external spring assist that the revised plastic ones have.
This not withstanding, we will now be fitting these metal ones from now on, although I do not anticipate problems with the plastic versions we have been fitting.
thanks again for the heads up.
As indicated, anyone who has had revised plastic tensioners fitted should expect long service from them, as long as the engine oil is changed at the optimum intervals, and there has been no overheating of the engine.
If this problem is addressed before the tensioner starts to disintegrate, it is only necessary to renew the secondary tensioners. If the chains have been running against the metal sub frame of the tensioner, the chains should be replaced. This is a far more involved procedure, and it would be prudent to replace primary chains and tensioners also.
SECONDARY TENSIONER INFORMATION SHEET
Ways in which the tensioners fail.
Rattle at start up , caused by oil pressure bleed down.
Rattle at start up and idle, cause by plastic slipper becoming detached.
Resulting slack causes chain to jump 1 tooth causing poor running.
Resulting slack causes chain to jump more than 1 tooth causing valves to collide with pistons.
Chain breakage caused by fragments being trapped in timing gear.
Technical Service Bulletins Released by Jaguar
December 1998 Bulletin No. 303-30
February 2005 Bulletin No. X303-68
Vehicles VIN range affected. 001001-A24195 xk model
Magazine articles on the subject
Jaguar World Monthly. Dec 2003 - Jan. 2004
Jaguar Enthusiast Magazine March 2005
Part numbers for the latest metal tensioners
Description Part No. Quantity
Secondary tensioner left-hand AJ87694 1
Secondary tensioner right-hand AJ87693 1
Bolt JFB 10607E 4
Likely cost to carry out the work
Replacing secondary tensioners only. £300-£500
Replacing all tensioners, chains and guides. £1,000- £1,500
___________________________________________________
John Millar 2005
>> Edited by john millar on Tuesday 26th July 11:53
Superb post ; surely this is what this forum is all about rather than winging about being caught speeding etc . I love these cars although can`t justify buying one at the moment . Congratulations on choosing almost certainly the finest luxury car (for the price) and good luck with it . MV
GREAT ARTICLE!
Some additional points.
Tires: The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires are terrific on my '99 XJ8L. The MPS wear out VERY quickly.
Performance: The 4.0 Litre 0 - 60 is high 6's to low 7's. The stats can be seen at www.wyn-thomas.co.uk/frame8.htm
Throttle Body: Replacement may be covered in the U.S under the extended 7 year California emission warranty (applicable for a number of states).
Posts: Piston Heads should also place significant Jaguar posts on the appropriate Roadfly forum (www.roadfly.com/jaguar/forums/)
where it will receive lots of additional exposure.
Some additional points.
Tires: The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires are terrific on my '99 XJ8L. The MPS wear out VERY quickly.
Performance: The 4.0 Litre 0 - 60 is high 6's to low 7's. The stats can be seen at www.wyn-thomas.co.uk/frame8.htm
Throttle Body: Replacement may be covered in the U.S under the extended 7 year California emission warranty (applicable for a number of states).
Posts: Piston Heads should also place significant Jaguar posts on the appropriate Roadfly forum (www.roadfly.com/jaguar/forums/)
where it will receive lots of additional exposure.
Hi all,
This is my first posting to the site. I read this thread with great interest as I'm soon to be re-entering the topsy-turvy world of Jaguar ownership.
I've had Saab convertibles for a number of years now but miss the waftiness, smoothness and character of Jaguars. I used to have a 93 XJS 4.0, but it turned into somewhat of a money pit, hence I'm in the market for an XJ8, preferably an XJR, as it seems they are considerably more reliable.
As much as I love roof-down motoring, the fact that the missus is getting an MX5 and I have access to an Alfa Spyder, Healey 3000 and Merc Pagoda SL, not to mention an E-type roadster and Ferrari 328 GTS (through motoring's best kept secret), means that I no longer have to compromise the everyday car.
I'd appreciate some advice though. In my price range it seems as though there are two possibilities - to go for either (a) an early XJR8 (R/S reg), which will probably be a bit mileagey and on its second or third owner, or (b) a post-2000 XJ8 3.2 Sport.
From this thread and my other reading into the subject, the general concensus seems to be that if you want an easy life, then a 2000-on model would be the one to go for. Am I really missing out by not going for the XJR8? It seems the 3.2 Sport is plenty fast enough for 90% of driving and to be honest, for what I want it for, including wafting up to Scotland three or four times a year, a few Euro trips and generally moseying round with a bit of swagger, but without huge running costs, the Sport seems to fit the bill. Or am I missing the point?
Cheers
This is my first posting to the site. I read this thread with great interest as I'm soon to be re-entering the topsy-turvy world of Jaguar ownership.
I've had Saab convertibles for a number of years now but miss the waftiness, smoothness and character of Jaguars. I used to have a 93 XJS 4.0, but it turned into somewhat of a money pit, hence I'm in the market for an XJ8, preferably an XJR, as it seems they are considerably more reliable.
As much as I love roof-down motoring, the fact that the missus is getting an MX5 and I have access to an Alfa Spyder, Healey 3000 and Merc Pagoda SL, not to mention an E-type roadster and Ferrari 328 GTS (through motoring's best kept secret), means that I no longer have to compromise the everyday car.
I'd appreciate some advice though. In my price range it seems as though there are two possibilities - to go for either (a) an early XJR8 (R/S reg), which will probably be a bit mileagey and on its second or third owner, or (b) a post-2000 XJ8 3.2 Sport.
From this thread and my other reading into the subject, the general concensus seems to be that if you want an easy life, then a 2000-on model would be the one to go for. Am I really missing out by not going for the XJR8? It seems the 3.2 Sport is plenty fast enough for 90% of driving and to be honest, for what I want it for, including wafting up to Scotland three or four times a year, a few Euro trips and generally moseying round with a bit of swagger, but without huge running costs, the Sport seems to fit the bill. Or am I missing the point?
Cheers
LordK,
I advise you to save the extra cash and get a 2000 XJR.
Everything you have said is correct about the 3.2 Sport; it is thoroughly competent vehicle. If you do go for one you will have a fine machine.
But........................
It seems to me that you consider your driving style to be sporty, hence the consideration of the 3.2 Sport rather than a 3.2 Executive. If your driving style is even half sporty you will simply adore an XJR.
If you have an inkling that in a year or 18 months you will upgrade to an XJR then save the cash or borrow extra money on the loan now. You won't regret it.
Thanks to everyone for the positve response to my original post too. I appreciate it.
I advise you to save the extra cash and get a 2000 XJR.
Everything you have said is correct about the 3.2 Sport; it is thoroughly competent vehicle. If you do go for one you will have a fine machine.
But........................
It seems to me that you consider your driving style to be sporty, hence the consideration of the 3.2 Sport rather than a 3.2 Executive. If your driving style is even half sporty you will simply adore an XJR.
If you have an inkling that in a year or 18 months you will upgrade to an XJR then save the cash or borrow extra money on the loan now. You won't regret it.
Thanks to everyone for the positve response to my original post too. I appreciate it.
Broadbean, excellent article. I have just acquired a XJR8. I also did some research beforehand. Wish I had seen this article first, it would have saved me some time. I have printed out the 10 pages or so as reference material. I test drove a 3.2 V8 Sport then the xjr - there is NO comparison. I was not looking for a xjr, but once driven it had to be mine. You do not need to buy a post Aug 2000 model to be "safe". There are many pre 2000 cars on the market with engines replaced by Jaguar under warranty. Make sure you have a service history and documentation for the replacement engine. I was looking to spend around £7.5K on a replacement jag but ended up with £10K for the xjr - money well spent ! The car has done 85K with a new engine (costing almost £8K) at 50K. I have never owned, driven or even been in a car like this - sports car performance with limousine luxury ! These cars have got to be the best value for money on the market (£52K car for £10K ?). A lot of expense goes "unseen" in the electronics such as electronic stability control, traction control, computer active technology suspension, anti-lock braking system etc., together with computer intervention to give "seamless" gear changes. It may be unseen, but believe me it is there ! On second thoughts, I don't think I will post this. I don't want the secret to get out. !!!
P.S one thing about insurance - I don't know what my "before no-claims discount premium" is - they never tell me. But my premium went up to £720 from £286 for a 1990 xj40 4.0 ltr. However, I have shopped around on the internet and a premium for next year is looking like around £550.
.....and fuel consumption is a painful 16mpg...........Hey, who cares ???
>> Edited by plowe on Sunday 13th November 21:48
P.S one thing about insurance - I don't know what my "before no-claims discount premium" is - they never tell me. But my premium went up to £720 from £286 for a 1990 xj40 4.0 ltr. However, I have shopped around on the internet and a premium for next year is looking like around £550.
.....and fuel consumption is a painful 16mpg...........Hey, who cares ???
>> Edited by plowe on Sunday 13th November 21:48
Dear Broadbean747
I have a 1998 XJ8 that stalled recently twice in a fortnight - never having done it before. When I took it to Dunham Jag they ran all the checks on it and could not fault it. They also said the TSB S514 job had already been done. I suppose I'm asking a couple of things:
1. The repair either does not seem to be infallible or they have missed something.
2. Is there anything else that might account for the fault?
Incidentally, since their examination of the car, it hasn't done it since!
I also thought your article was excellent!
I have a 1998 XJ8 that stalled recently twice in a fortnight - never having done it before. When I took it to Dunham Jag they ran all the checks on it and could not fault it. They also said the TSB S514 job had already been done. I suppose I'm asking a couple of things:
1. The repair either does not seem to be infallible or they have missed something.
2. Is there anything else that might account for the fault?
Incidentally, since their examination of the car, it hasn't done it since!
I also thought your article was excellent!
AlanXJ8,
I read some threads here and there that describe symptoms similar to the throttle body issue but with a different cause.
An alternative explanation is a clogged "part load breather".
Roadfly has some good threads on this type of problem. Try these.
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
That should be enough to send you in the right direction.
I read some threads here and there that describe symptoms similar to the throttle body issue but with a different cause.
An alternative explanation is a clogged "part load breather".
Roadfly has some good threads on this type of problem. Try these.
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jagu
That should be enough to send you in the right direction.
Excellent post, you've clarified all the stuff that's been messing with my head since I bought my XJ 8. When I asked Jaguar Customer Service 'bout the secondary tensioners they said there should be no probs with the second generation (still plastic though ) chain tensioners fitted to my 2000 XJ.
Just a thought. My experience as a mechanic years ago was that delaying oil changes too long or missing them altogether was really bad news for oil seals, rubber gaskets and any plastic components inside the engine. Oil has a complex package of addatives, including some called Plasticlears which are designed to protect and keep supple just these components. As the oil ages and becomes contaminated through use it looses the ability to protect and plastic exposed to repeated heat cycling and acid combustion by products in the oil becomes brittle and hard.
So could extended oil changes be contributing to tensioner failure?
Just a thought. My experience as a mechanic years ago was that delaying oil changes too long or missing them altogether was really bad news for oil seals, rubber gaskets and any plastic components inside the engine. Oil has a complex package of addatives, including some called Plasticlears which are designed to protect and keep supple just these components. As the oil ages and becomes contaminated through use it looses the ability to protect and plastic exposed to repeated heat cycling and acid combustion by products in the oil becomes brittle and hard.
So could extended oil changes be contributing to tensioner failure?
Professional posting - well structured, formatted and useful. As someone said, this is what forums should be about.
Couple of points to add - in my opinion forget the 3.2, even in Sport guise. Consider the 4.0 as a good compromise between the two (being £14k, I couldn't afford the R at that point). If you're slightly worried about mpg or insurance for the XJR then sure, the 4.0 is not the same car, but it has the appropriate sports suspension, nice wheels (now seen on Cayenne), and enough power (290bhp), without being as extreme as an R (probably not the right word in the context of XJ series).
For me the problem with the 3.2 is that it's much revvier (a different engine I believe?), so you can't drive on torque to the same extent. Since I was buying an 8 cylinder because I like the smoothness, torque and sound of a V8, I found the 4.0 'better'.
Timing chain tensioners - I had this problem, but would describe the sound as a loud tick (similar to a cam problem) which would go away with revs but always remained at idle whether the engine was hot or cold. My Jag specialist charged only £650 to replace all tensioners/guides and chains (seemed a false economy to replace only items obviously worn when much of the charge is for time taken to dismantle front end of engine). We included the chains only because Jaguar, in order to shorten the engine to fit under the sloping bonnet, decided to use simplex rather than the stronger duplex chains of older engines.
Finally, get a good aftermarket warranty (dealer or direct, and renew it remembering that the figures are always negotiable) such as AutoProtect (Premium level). Follow their procedures correctly and be firm and you will enjoy worry-free Jaguar motoring (or Mercedes, whatever) even outside the dealer chain. You will almost inevitably get back more than you pay out (£250-400 pa cost) - I always have, including the job described above.
Sold the car (a 98 vehicle) due to wheelarch/sill rust - disappointing, I thought Ford might have ironed those problems out but it was still too early in their ownership.
Have run 2 other V8s since (TVR Griffith 4.0 and Ford F-150 Lightning pickup) and whilst neither is slower than an XJR, equally neither has the blend of grace and pace. In terms of space, often criticised on the XJ, I came to realise that you should think of it as a coupe first and 4-door second. The high sills and encompassing cockpit are more coupe/sports than limousine. In this light both cabin and boot are big! If it's space you're after then as previously recommended see Zafira (or Mercedes S.....)
I'm now looking for a XJR (probably 100 edition)
Couple of points to add - in my opinion forget the 3.2, even in Sport guise. Consider the 4.0 as a good compromise between the two (being £14k, I couldn't afford the R at that point). If you're slightly worried about mpg or insurance for the XJR then sure, the 4.0 is not the same car, but it has the appropriate sports suspension, nice wheels (now seen on Cayenne), and enough power (290bhp), without being as extreme as an R (probably not the right word in the context of XJ series).
For me the problem with the 3.2 is that it's much revvier (a different engine I believe?), so you can't drive on torque to the same extent. Since I was buying an 8 cylinder because I like the smoothness, torque and sound of a V8, I found the 4.0 'better'.
Timing chain tensioners - I had this problem, but would describe the sound as a loud tick (similar to a cam problem) which would go away with revs but always remained at idle whether the engine was hot or cold. My Jag specialist charged only £650 to replace all tensioners/guides and chains (seemed a false economy to replace only items obviously worn when much of the charge is for time taken to dismantle front end of engine). We included the chains only because Jaguar, in order to shorten the engine to fit under the sloping bonnet, decided to use simplex rather than the stronger duplex chains of older engines.
Finally, get a good aftermarket warranty (dealer or direct, and renew it remembering that the figures are always negotiable) such as AutoProtect (Premium level). Follow their procedures correctly and be firm and you will enjoy worry-free Jaguar motoring (or Mercedes, whatever) even outside the dealer chain. You will almost inevitably get back more than you pay out (£250-400 pa cost) - I always have, including the job described above.
Sold the car (a 98 vehicle) due to wheelarch/sill rust - disappointing, I thought Ford might have ironed those problems out but it was still too early in their ownership.
Have run 2 other V8s since (TVR Griffith 4.0 and Ford F-150 Lightning pickup) and whilst neither is slower than an XJR, equally neither has the blend of grace and pace. In terms of space, often criticised on the XJ, I came to realise that you should think of it as a coupe first and 4-door second. The high sills and encompassing cockpit are more coupe/sports than limousine. In this light both cabin and boot are big! If it's space you're after then as previously recommended see Zafira (or Mercedes S.....)
I'm now looking for a XJR (probably 100 edition)
Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff